+1 on caldera cone, i have one. i really like integrated stove systems such as the jetboil and i think the caldera cone is th UL version of jetboil. and the winds don't bother it a bit. it is so effecient and protected i was boiling water faster than a friend who had a multifuel stove with 5-10 mph winds. with the caddy it still weighs less than half of the jetboil, and i get a bowl as well. i really think the caldera setup is a great system and worth looking into.

Just to add my two cents... I also have used a Jetboil for a while and recently "upgraded" to a Snow Peak LiteMax and TiWare .9L pot.

Jetboil = 15.2oz
New System = 6.4oz

Those weights are according to my scale.

The Snow Peak is just as simple to use and may have actually boiled water faster. If it did, I think the reason is that I have a wider pot and the flame on the Snow Peak spreads a bit more than on the Jetboil. That's based on zero scientific facts or measurements. :-)

-Dave

Much as others have said: a Litemax or Gigapower at an averaged 2.25 ounces, plus about 4 ounces for a Ti pot (wide bottom for max efficiency, Evernew 0.9L short is great). The canister system will keep you with extreme ease of use and fast boils.

I've come to prefer my Ti-Tri in most cases. I like the titanium better than the aluminum version not only for wood-burning versatility, but also because it seems to be a bit more resilient in the face of trail abuse. For my 0.9L short pot, I use a Ziploc "disposable" storage container, I think a 4 cup round model; everything fits nicely inside, just like with your Jetboil. Oh, except the pot, which just gets food jammed in it. But my coffee mug does go in the caddie.

I've been using a Jetboil for the last few years (I'm stuck at lightweight, not an ultra-lighter) and thanks to reading this thread last night, I realized I could still use a cannister stove yet cut my stove weight down by almost half. Using a BPL 550ml titanium pot, and a Jetboil cannister that fits nicely inside, and then just use my MSR Pocket Rocket, I went from 700g for the Jetboil and cannister to about 400g with the new set-up. Thanks all.

+ 2 or 3 for the Caldera Cone by Trail Designs! This system is a league of its own amongst the other UL stoves out there. I paired it with my Firelite 900 and have been amazed by the no-fuss efficency it provides. Faster boil times(under 6.5 min)+less fuel(15 ml) to get 2 cups of 60 degree water to boil= a no brainer! No more messing with flimsy foil windscreens or wasting fuel or esbit tabs. The Caldera Cone and 12-10 stove eliminate that really maximizing the efficency an placement of the burner in relation to the cookpot!Ultralite+near perfect cook system. Simply put, A+ 10!

"Um ... dunno what canister you have been using, but a standard 230 g canister is wide and low. I have found the combo with a Snow Peak extremely stable."

We use the 230g canisters as well, and have cooked on a SnowPeak Giga for many years. We find it to be the least stable set up for cooking of all we've tried, so my statement was really just in comparison to other systems. I imagine the jetboil would be just as (relatively) unstable if using the same canisters. Keep in mind we're cooking in a 2L pot, which is both tall and wide (ie top-heavy when filled with water), so with narrower and shorter pots YMMV. Ditto for beer can setups. Fosters and Heine cans are very tall, and balancing them on a small alcohol stove is an art. The JetBoil pot appears to me to also be quite tall. The Keg system abolishes this instability.

"I cut my jetboil down so that it weighs 300 gram (10.7 ounces). It is still all in one."

Derek: Could you post some pics + elaborate a bit? Thanks.

There can be a couple of pitfalls with a Jetboil vs. an "ultralight" type canister stove. The lightest stove isn't necessarily the lightest overall choice.

1. A Jetboil is generally more efficient than other canister stoves. On a trip where you might otherwise need to take two canisters or a larger canister, a Jetboil might actually be lighter since you can either take only one canister or a smaller canister.

2. In wind, a "non wind protected" canister stove can expend so much fuel in cooking that a heavier, "wind protected" stove winds up being lighter.

It's not quite so simple as lightest stove = lightest overall weight. There are a whole lot of factors to be weighed including but not limited to, size of party, length of trip, cooking style, wind, temperature, whether or not you intend to prepare hot beverages, and cooking/heating frequency.

Having said that there are a lot of options, such as a wind screen, that can make a lighter stove a better option. NOTE:  Read up on wind screen use with canister stoves and make sure you know the hazards, which include death, before you try it.

Edited by hikin_jim on 05/26/2009 21:20:46 MDT.

Where's the Jetboil FLASH? Isn't it supposed to be released soon?

Hi Jim

> A Jetboil is generally more efficient than other canister stoves
True, but ...
For a 230 g canister of gas you might save about 60 g by switching from an upright to a Jetboil. I suspect most upright combinations are a lot lighter than that over a PCS!

> Read up on wind screen use with canister stoves and make sure you know the hazards,
Well, yes, but we have been over that in our articles on stoves so often. (Yes, they need a subscription - go on, buy one!) There is negligable hazard compared to life in general provided you monitor the temperature of the canister. Also in an article. :-)

Cheers

"It's not quite so simple as lightest stove = lightest overall weight. There are a whole lot of factors to be weighed including but not limited to, size of party, length of trip, cooking style, wind, temperature, whether or not you intend to prepare hot beverages, and cooking/heating frequency."

I think Jim has nailed it on the head, no one stove is perfect for every situation. Stove testing is my hobby and I own a lot of stoves mainly canister and alcohol and I have spent hundreds of hours running tests on these stoves trying to understand them and trying to find the best stove for my uses and they all have there good and bad points.

I personally prefer canister stoves and at the moment I mostly use two types one an Kovea 60g upright with two aluminum pots for warmer weather and an Coleman Extreme with a JetBoil GCS pot for cold weather, white gas stoves have there advantages mainly for extreme cold conditions, the coldest temps that I experience here in Australia is -20C and Xtreme can handle that temp. I mainly prefer canister stoves because of the type of bushwalking cooking I do, which usually requires simmering. I have worked out how to safely refill canisters and only take the amount of gas that I think I would need.

Alcohol stoves while they can be a very light option for shorter walks most are not capable of simmering and are not that efficient compared to canister stoves used properly, they also do no work that well in cold conditions, they can take some fuel to prime and most are difficult or impossible to recover any unused fuel.

I own a Caldera Cone for a Firelite 550 pot and while it is a very fine stove system it still does have some limitations, unable to simmer, difficult to store in pack and can be difficult to assemble. My testing shows that the cone is good in wind compared to a STD windscreen.

Tony

"Alcohol stoves while they can be a very light option for shorter walks most are not capable of simmering and are not that efficient compared to canister stoves used properly, they also do no work that well in cold conditions, they can take some fuel to prime"

Hi Tony, I've found out a few things which can help with these problems:

Simmering: It's possible to add a little water to a running alcohol stove to reduce the output and increase the run time.

Cold: Carry a small bottle of alcohol in a shirt pocket and refill from main bottle. Warm the stove in your hands for a minute before you add the warm fuel.

Priming: A piece of twisted toilet paper around the stove with a few drops of alcohol works well. Heat up the outside of the body of the stove and it primes a lot quicker than lighting solely from the centre.

" I have worked out how to safely refill canisters "

Tony, how the heck do you do that...care to share? It's a possibility I've long pondered.

Since a lot of people have been comparing the Jetboil to other canister set-ups, and since I've used my Lite Max on three overnight trips into the snows of the Cascades this month and was a little disappointed in how quickly it consumed fuel compared to the Jetboil, I made these comparative weighings:

LiteMax, Snow Peak Mini Solo, Lg Ti windscreen, Full sm fuel canister. Total weight: 480 g.

Jetboil with full sm fuel canister. Total weight: 610 g.

I usually boil three cups of water at a time in the SP Mini and consume lots of coffee and hot chocolate in the mornings and lots of tea in the evenings (plus the water for rehydrating dinner). Using the LiteMax a canister is good for about six boils. If I want hot water for lunch as well, then I have to bring along an extra canister, which adds another 200 g to the system weight, which in turn means it is heavier overall than the Jetboil! Because it is so effecient the Jetboil can provide all the hot water I want on just one canister!

So yes, it is hard to effectively compare apples and oranges. When the snow is gone from the high country I'll revert to using alchol and esbit, trying to ascertain which is better, which is futile because each has it's pros and cons. But hey, it's my hobby! Happy trails!

Hi Roger T,

Thank you, I am aware of those techniques especially the water one, too much stuffing around and in my opinion just not worth the effort.

Try making a liter of water from snow at -20C with an alcohol stove, the last thing I want to do at -20C is have to wait around getting cold.

Tony

Hi Monty,

" I have worked out how to safely refill canisters "

Refilling canister can be very dangerous and is illegal in some countries I do not advise you or any other person to refill canisters.

That said check this site out

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm#Refill

Tony

> "Try making a liter of water from snow at -20C with an alcohol stove, the last thing I want to do at -20C is have to wait around getting cold."

Ah, true, for that you need a bigger diameter pan and three alcohol stoves. ;-)

In Fact, at -20C My MSR wisperlite would get packroom. It makes a great space heater.

" I have worked out how to safely refill canisters "

Refilling canister can be very dangerous and is illegal in some countries I do not advise you or any other person to refill canisters.

That said check this site out

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm#Refill"

A few years ago I had the privilege to hike and climb in the former Soviet Republic of Kyrgyzstan. I saw in use a homemade refilling device and used several canisters refilled from this device. My understanding from the "technician" was that he could refill it only until the seal on the valve gave out, on average about half a dozen times.

"> "Try making a liter of water from snow at -20C with an alcohol stove, the last thing I want to do at -20C is have to wait around getting cold.""

Agreed. Alcohol stoves like the Caldera are generally the lightest option for three season use. In the fourth season, or when cooking for more than two people, or on trips between resupply that are long enough for fuel economy to become an over-riding factor, a good canister stove is the way to go.

There are many ways to simmer an alcohol stove.

Hi Monty

> LiteMax, Snow Peak Mini Solo, Lg Ti windscreen, Full sm fuel canister. Total weight: 480 g.

The SP Mini Solo is a big problem. It is far too narrow for efficient use with most any stove; half the heat will go up the side and be wasted. You are losing half the heating capacity of the stove with this pot and burning up far too much fuel. Switch to a wide low pot and see the difference.

Cheers

> For a 230 g canister of gas you might save about 60g by switching from an upright to a Jetboil. I suspect most upright combinations are a lot lighter than that over a PCS!
I usually use a 100g or 110g canister. Carrying a 230g or carrying a second canister does add a bit of weight, but the real deciding points for me are weather, duration, and number of people. If I'm going on a short 3 season trip with just myself or one other person where the weather is a) predictiable and b) not predicted to be windy, I'll usually take a small upright rig. Anything else on a 3 season trip (longer trip, larger group, unpredictable weather, or predicted windy weather), and I'll bring the Jet Boil (either PCS or GCS depending on group size). A bit off topic, but for 4 season trips, it's back to my old Whisperlite (until such time as I get an Xtreme).

> There is negligable hazard [when using a wind screen with a canister stove] compared to life in general provided you monitor the temperature of the canister.
Agreed. If the canister is not too hot to touch, then you're good to go, and, yes, it's well documented in the articles hereon. I just added that blurb on the off chance someone might Google into that one posting. Though a full detonation of a canister is unlikely, the consequences are pretty nasty. I just added that as my "due diligence."

Edited by hikin_jim on 05/27/2009 20:13:55 MDT.