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Podcast: Roundtable Discussion of Winter Hiking and Camping

Backpacking Light staff discuss how to get the most out of any winter trip from day trip to multi-day expeditions.

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by Ken Knight | 2007-03-27 03:00:00-06

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Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 1
Looking down upon the Manistee River from the Manistee River Pathway, Michigan.

Introduction

Winter camping and hiking can be very rewarding. Travel in winter, whether it's a day trip or multi-day expedition, doesn't have to be scary as long as you come equipped with the right gear and attitude. It affords opportunities to see the world in a completely different light. Winter not only brings its own physical challenges for backcountry travelers but also affects you psychologically in good and potentially bad ways. If you embrace the challenges and learn how to get through the short days and long nights, winter trips can be a source of great beauty and joy.

In this companion article to the Winter Camping and Hiking podcast I will look briefly at some of the key points to making a winter trip a success. This is by no means a comprehensive look at how you should go winter camping. With this article and the podcast it is my hope that you will develop an enthusiasm for winter travel and begin to explore the possibilities on your own. While the challenges are varied and great, the rewards are equally so.

Key Points in Winter Camping

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 2

Mike Martin is wearing his usual layering system during a backcountry ski tour of West Willow Peak outside of Mullan, Idaho. During the 3000 foot climb in 30 degree weather, he unzipped the hip zips on the Arc'teryx Beta AR pants for ventilation. On his torso, he used the REI Powerdry Zip-T alone when the wind was calm, and added the Cloudveil Prospector Hoodie as needed for protection from precipitation and breezes. REI All Season Mitts were worn or carried on the handles of the ski poles as needed to regulate hand warmth. Now, on the peak, the wind has picked up, so he's zipped up the pant vents, added a shell mitt, and donned an Integral Designs eVENT Jacket as he prepares for the ski down.

When it is cold out you need to keep yourself warm. That sounds obvious but it is vital and in some ways easy. However, it is also easy to get wet - from outside moisture and your own sweat - while trying to stay warm. Getting wet makes staying warm during breaks and over the long-term considerably more difficult.

Keeping the following points in mind will help you have successful winter trips of any length. While this list is not exhaustive it does touch on facets of winter travel that everyone has to deal with whether on a day trip or out for several nights in the remotest locations.

Keep Warm Without Getting Wet

All of us agree that it's easy to stay warm when moving, especially when pounding through deep snow. While insulated clothing is essential for stops, far lighter clothing is needed when you are on the go. Clothing that wicks moisture away from you and blocks the wind will go a long way to helping you regulate your temperature. Dress in layers.

Keep your feet and hands well cared for. Most people know to keep their hands warm with good gloves or mittens, but they neglect their feet - just wearing the thickest socks they can find. That may work in the short-term but consider using a true winter footwear system instead. Vapor barrier clothing can shine even in temperatures that are not too much below freezing. If you keep your feet warm and dry you will be much more comfortable. It is notoriously difficult, even for people with good circulation, to rewarm their feet once they get very cold. It's even more difficult to warm your feet if they are wet too.

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 3
Ken Knight in Little Cottonwood Canyon, Utah. Dressing in layers is an important key to managing warmth and staying dry. I encountered far warmer temperatures on this trip than I had expected. Being able to fully vent my Wintergreen Designs Expedition Shell kept me cool. When night fell I could put on insulated clothing beneath the shell and still be comfortable. Like the other participants in this podcast I prefer softshell pants (an older version of the Climawool Light pants Ibex now sells).

Find a hat and hood combination that will keep your head warm without sweating. People tend to think you lose the most heat from your head. This is actually not true. However, it does feel that way with wind blowing against your face and neck, so wearing a hat and/or hood that will block the wind is a good idea. For some, like Ryan Jordan, this means wearing a wool baselayer with a hood and a windshirt. I prefer a more traditional approach of a wool hat and my winter hardshell.

Eat, Eat, Eat; Drink, Drink, Drink

As you burn the calories staying warm, you must replace the energy by eating. Pick foods you can cook and eat easily. It does no good to select items that become rock hard and inedible. While you are eating all your favorite foods, remember you need not worry about spoilage. And don't forget to drink plenty of fluids. It is very easy to forget to drink water when it is cold.

We favor large amounts of hot chocolate in the morning and evening, sometimes spiked with Java Juice packets. Larger dinners than we would ever consider the rest of the year usually include a typical backpacking meal plus soup with a hot drink. During the day snacks and lunches vary quite a bit but we all agree that increasing the amount of fats is important. Each of us have our favorite way of doing this.

Even if you are going out for just a day trip don't skimp on the food. While it is true that you will most likely end your day back in a nice warm place (even if you are doing a hut-to-hut trip) with good food, you still must eat during the day. You won't regret bringing extra food and plenty of water.

Keep Your Stuff Dry


Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 4
Steve Nelson is using an Equinox poncho tarp over a Bozeman Mountain Works bivy sack at Loch Leven Lakes in the Sierra Nevada near Lake Tahoe. In the right conditions a tarp, especially pyramid-style shelters like the Kifaru tipis, Titanium Goat Vertex tents, and Black Diamond MegaLite - all of which have been used by participants in this podcast, is an excellent shelter for keeping your stuff dry.

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 5
Ryan Jordan likes the ease of setup of a small, single wall tent while mountaineering, or traveling long days. The simplicity of a freestanding tent with good pole support shouldn't be underestimated in deep winter conditions when every bit of energy must be conserved. Here, his Black Diamond OneShot stays upright and stable, even in the midst of a winter blizzard that brought more than three feet of new snow in 24 hours.

Do your best to keep your gear dry. Keeping your insulated clothing and sleeping bag dry is vital. But keeping the rest of your stuff dry is amazingly helpful too. If this means you need to pack gear and clothing in lightweight drybags then do that. It's hard enough to put cold clothing on or pack up a cold shelter. It's even harder to do these things when the gear is cold and wet.

If your clothing gets damp during the day don't be afraid to sleep with it on at night. Your body heat will do a superb job of drying things out, especially if you are lucky enough to be camping in cold dry climates.

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 6
Will Rietveld and Janet Reichl moving into one of their hidden backcountry igloos - five trips so far this winter.

If you have the time and it is sunny, try to air out your gear. Even when the ambient temperature is quite cold, a bright sun will do a very good job of drying gear in a relatively short time.

Enjoy the Different Social Setting

Winter trips have a different feel about them in camp. While sitting around a campfire during a spring, summer, or fall trip is fun, we all agreed that something extra special is added on a winter trek. Not only does a campfire help pass the time during the long nights but the sense of camaraderie is enhanced as the night deepens. Count yourself lucky if you can sit around a campfire on a clear winter night watching the stars come out and the moon rise overhead.

Just Get Going

It's hard to get moving in the morning. Unless you are Will Rietveld staying in a pretty warm igloo each night (and there is a lot to be said for that approach), getting out of the warm sleeping bag and starting morning chores is tough. Do your best to “multi-task.” Get water boiling for breakfast and start taking down the shelter right away. If you went to bed with hot water have some right away to warm yourself up. It doesn't take much to get over that hump.

Final Thoughts

There is a great deal to learn to make your winter trips happy ones. Starting small and learning from others is probably the best way to go. If you are nervous about setting up a tarp or tent each night and don't have the where-with-all to build igloos, consider base-camping trips using either your own shelter or a hut in the backcountry. Even for those of us who enjoy moving camp from place to place this is sometimes just what the doctor ordered.

Winter changes the landscape. Everything sounds different, looks different, smells different, and feels different. While the environment brings with it its own extra set of dangers and concerns, winter camping and hiking can be done safely and in some cases without adding too much more gear to your three-season kit. Understanding the challenges, physical and mental, and learning to deal with them is only a matter of time and effort. The rewards are worth it.

About the Author and Podcast Participants

Ken Knight, Backpacking Light Production Editor, Ann Arbor, MI.

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 7
The author pulling his pulk towards Hoist Lakes in central Michigan. On this path wearing snowshoes was not necessary. Had I strayed off-trail that would have quickly changed.

I've been an avid backpacker for the past decade and day hiker for longer than that. I have been lightening my load the entire time. My winter travels are primarily in my home state of Michigan with the occasional couple days elsewhere. My preferred means of travel is by snowshoes. I have taken trips using base-camps as well as moving from place to place each night. I have traveled light and sometimes heavier when pulling a pulk. I tend to prefer using a tent when I winter camp. While pitching a tent limits my flexibility, it is usually far easier for me to set up. However, like the others, I do appreciate a good pyramid-style tarp. Typical conditions can bring nighttime temperatures approaching 0 °F with potential windchills considerably lower, especially when near one of the Great Lakes. Daytime highs are generally in the 20 °F range.

Ryan Jordan, Backpacking Light Co-founder and Publisher, Bozeman, MT.

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 8
A February snowshoe trip into the northern Bridger Range requires less gear than you think. Enough gear for a two-night trip easily fits into a GoLite Jam, even when winter temperatures dip down to zero degrees.

Ryan does the bulk of his wintertime backcountry travel in the mountains of the Yellowstone Ecosystem. His primary mode of travel is on randonee skies or snowshoes. With nighttime temperatures that dip as low as -20 °F, Ryan uses vapor barrier clothing as a key component in his sleep system, which usually includes a snowcave or tarp. As winter evolves into spring this year, Ryan will switch to an ultralight waxless touring ski setup and a skijoring harness for his 80 pound black lab, Maia, and attempt longer distances over snow, hoping to travel as much as 50 miles per day.

Mike Martin, Backpacking Light Sleep Systems Editor, Coeur d'Alene, ID.

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 9
Mike and his hiking companion "Joey" on a day hike at the Cougar Bay Preserve outside of Coeur d'Alene, ID. Because of the thin, hardpacked snow, he's opted for Kahtoolas instead of snowshoes, and has brought Gossamer Gear Lightrek poles with small baskets instead of ski poles with powder baskets.

Mike Martin is a relative newcomer to winter camping. He had the misfortune of growing up in snow-free southern California, so it is only during the past 7 years in North Idaho that he's had a chance to have a second childhood building snow caves and forts, and having snowball fights with his kids. Mike's winter activities consist mostly of done-in-a-day snowshoe and ski tours and weekend snow-camping trips.

Steve Nelson, Backpacking Light Winter Systems Editor, Marin County, CA.

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 10
Swirling snow at Crater Lake, Oregon. Steve is in a deep well between trees, in an Arc'teryx jacket using Northern Lites snowshoes.

Steve has been backpacking and playing in the snow since he was a kid growing up in upstate New York. Now living in California, he backpacks throughout the Sierra Nevada and Cascades, and has a special love for winter camping, snowshoeing, and backcountry skiing. He travels fast and light, is always on the lookout for ways to safely shave ounces from gear, and never met a storm he didn't enjoy.

Most of his winter activity these days is in the Sierra Nevada, and runs the gamut from snowshoeing and peak bagging to skiing and winter base camping. His trips vary from lightweight (bivy sack and snow trench) to moderate (often pulling a pulk).

Will Rietveld, Backpacking Light Packing and Shelter Systems Editor, Durango, CO.

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping - 11
Will Rietveld on snowshoes after a recent snowstorm in the southern Rockies.

I have done quite a bit of winter camping over the years. Most were overnight or two to three day trips where we traveled on skis or snowshoes and slept in a snow cave or tent. My biggest winter trip was an 8-day outing in the Yellowstone backcounty where we skied in, established a base camp, and slept in a tent, snow cave, and igloo. I have also gone on several hut to hut trips, where we reserved huts in advance then skied or snowshoed from hut to hut.

Last winter my wife and I discovered igloo building using the Grand Shelters Icebox Tool, and learned how to use the tool. This winter we built our own igloo hut system. Now our preferred system of winter travel is to snowshoe to an igloo for an overnight stay, or snowshoe from igloo to igloo. Nighttime temperatures in an igloo are around freezing, compared to below zero outside, so our igloo camping is plush compared to multi-day trips and sleeping in a tent in frigid temperatures. The other Backpacking Light staffers are hardcores compared to me.

Igloo camping is easy compared to a tent in winter. It’s warm and roomy inside, it’s quiet inside when it’s windy, we don’t have to bump the snow off if it’s snowing, there’s no problem with cooking inside, and it’s much easier to keep water and gear from freezing. Buring two or three candles inside provides enough light and warmth to make the evenings very comfortable. It can get too warm inside if we run our stove too long, but that’s a problem I don’t mind having.


Citation

"Podcast: Roundtable Discussion of Winter Hiking and Camping," by Ken Knight. BackpackingLight.com (ISSN 1537-0364).
http://backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/podcast_031407_roundtable_winter_camping_hiking.html, 2007-03-27 03:00:00-06.

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Forum Index » Editor's Roundtable » Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping


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Benjamin Smith
( bugbomb - BPL STAFF - M )

Locale:
South Texas
Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping on 03/27/2007 23:15:35 MDT Print View

Companion forum thread to:

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping

Bill Fornshell
( bfornshell - M )

Locale:
Southern Texas
Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping on 04/02/2007 09:02:39 MDT Print View

Ben,

Is it my computer or is the volume (sound quality) on this Podcast a little low?

Kenneth Knight
( kenknight - BPL STAFF - M )

Locale:
SE Michigan
podcast volume on 04/03/2007 13:11:55 MDT Print View

Bill, you are right the volume is a bit lower this time around. On some computers it will sound great; on others (like yours or my parents) a bit quiet. We had some recording issues which you can hear in the slight echoe of some participants and bumping up volume makes that more noticeable. Some of this is out of our control given the nature of the recording technologies employed and the locations the recording is done.

Hopefully you were able to listen to the show and get something out of it nonetheless. I fully intend, as I noted at the start of the podcast, to have more of these discussions.

Douglas Frick
( Otter - M )

Locale:
Wyoming
Re: podcast volume on 04/03/2007 17:50:12 MDT Print View

You might mention to the participants not to breath into the microphone. One person was doing that for several minutes while someone else was speaking. Evidently this isn't mixed.

Still, I enjoyed the podcast. Keep up the good work.

Kenneth Knight
( kenknight - BPL STAFF - M )

Locale:
SE Michigan
podcast mixing on 04/03/2007 18:35:53 MDT Print View

I'm curious on what you are basing your belief the podcast isn't mixed is based upon? Perhaps what you meant to suggest was that this was not a double-ender (or more precisely 5-ender) recorded podcast. If it had been removing breathing from one person would be possible (though time consuming).

This isn't really the place to discuss such things, but the podcast was mixed. The particpants had widely varied mics running the gamut from built-in computer mics to studio quality. That is the single biggest reason outside of microphone use technique that you har variations in how people sounded.

Douglas Frick
( Otter - M )

Locale:
Wyoming
Re: podcast mixing on 04/03/2007 19:28:44 MDT Print View

Sorry I wasn't clear on "mixing." Yes, I meant multi-track editing. It was clear that there were multiple audio sources being combined, and that was done well.

Bill Fornshell
( bfornshell - M )

Locale:
Southern Texas
podcast volume on 04/03/2007 21:45:40 MDT Print View

Hi Ken,
I tried the Podcast on a second computer I have. I have a Mac Lap Top but the volume was the same. I have a head phone jack on the Lap Top. I dug out my 10 or 15 year old Sony WalkMan and got the head phones. The Walkman plug is the same size as used on the LapTop.

Big difference. The good news is that I could hear everything really well. Even what I didn't want to hear. That is a joke.

I thought the content was great. I expect to listen to it again and make a few notes. Lots of great information and many different ideas for gear.

Walter Underwood
( wunder - M )

Locale:
San Francisco Bay Area
Gear Lists? Carbon Monoxide? on 04/10/2007 11:40:34 MDT Print View

Thanks, this was interesting. I was listening on my car radio (from my iPod), so I didn't make notes of the gear that was mentioned. I see a couple of lists in the accompanying article, but a quick list of items mentioned by each participant would be nice.

Using a stove inside an igloo made me really concerned about carbon monoxide. I see that ventilation is mentioned in the igloo article, but a mention of stoves in enclosed spaces should always include a CO warning.

I was a bit surprised at how many of you use PowerMax stoves since they are not especially lightweight. We just chose those for our Boy Scout troop and I wrote that up as Choosing Stoves for Boy Scouts.

Having people from different regions was very good. I did occasionally lose track of the relationships, Mike=Idaho, Ken=Michigan, and so on. It would help if the participants said "in Colorado" or whereever more often.

Overall, a great start to the series.

Edited by wunder on 04/10/2007 11:43:37 MDT.

Kenneth Knight
( kenknight - BPL STAFF - M )

Locale:
SE Michigan
Carbon Monoxide and igloos on 04/10/2007 13:50:20 MDT Print View

Walter, I can't address your specific questions but hopefully Will will weigh in on this.

I would like to point out the articles Roger Caffin wrote on carbon monxide accumulation within shelters. You can find Part 1 on theory here and part 2 which deals with experiments and results here. At least based on these results the danger is a lot less than you might think. Of course you should be careful when cooking in a confined space but my guess is you are more likely to cause yourself harm by accidentally touching the stove flame or knocking it over before you ever feel any effects from CO poisoning.

You're right the PowerMax is hardly the lightest thing going. When it works it works wonderfully well without the potential fuss and muss of say my MSR Whisperlite XGK. But as I note in the podcast I have had more than my share of trouble too - as Ryan says probably not enough practice.

Roger Caffin
( rcaffin - BPL STAFF - M )

Locale:
Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs
Re: Gear Lists? Carbon Monoxide? on 04/10/2007 16:09:47 MDT Print View

Hi Walter

> Using a stove inside an igloo made me really concerned about carbon monoxide. I see that ventilation is mentioned in the igloo article, but a mention of stoves in enclosed spaces should always include a CO warning.

The amount of CO released by a stove varies considerably, depending on the stove. You might be surprised at how they vary. The series on CO mentioned by Ken will get you started on understanding more about this, and we will be publishing a survey of canister stoves and their CO emissions quite soon.

As to igloos, the same does apply. Experienced igloo users know they have to have a vent hole in the roof. Actual CO measurements in igloos do not show a significant hazard in practice. The snow walls seem to leak a bit.

Hysterical warnings against use in a tent by some stove manufacturers do no-one any good at all however. At 10,000 ft in mid winter in a howling snow storm you are NOT going to be cooking outside, but you ARE going to be dependent on your stove for food and water, and survival. Knowledge is better than fear.

As to the PowerMax stoves like the Xtreme - well, we use them because they are so reliable in mid-winter when 'upright' canister stoves generally do not work. They are lighter and more reliable and MORE powerful than the liquid fuel alternatives. What more could you want?

Walter Underwood
( wunder - M )

Locale:
San Francisco Bay Area
Carbon Monoxide on 04/10/2007 17:49:53 MDT Print View

I somehow missed those articles. They are great. Thanks.

My blog post on the Exponent Xpert stoves links to Roger Caffin's excellent review of them at Backpack Gear Test. Small world.

Edited by wunder on 04/10/2007 17:52:42 MDT.

B H
( carya )
NOLS Podcast? on 04/14/2007 19:03:36 MDT Print View

Not to complain or anything, but the podcast link in this article opens up the "Can NOLS go light" podcast. An excellent article in its own right, to be sure, but not what I had in mind!

Steve Parr
( srparr - M )

Locale:
SE Michigan
Re: NOLS Podcast? on 04/19/2007 16:05:17 MDT Print View

I shot a note to support. As per their reply, they are aware of it and will fix it soon ...

karl hafner
( khafner - M )

Locale:
upstate NY
winter backpacking on 12/12/2007 08:44:07 MST Print View

A very well done exercise in the basics of winter camping/backpacking. I have two concerns. There is good data to show that an uncovered head can be the source of a very large amount of heat lost - well over 50% and a covering is important. It is very easy to use your hands and head as effective radiators in winter. When cold they must be covered. Sweating should be avoided. I too like plenty of fluids and anything that taste good and can be used hot is even better. Be careful with coffee, tea, colas and chocolate as these contain methyl xanthines and are known diuretics (that means you loose fluids when you consume them). They can be counterproductive and result in a net fluid loss. They also may mean that you have to get up at nite to pee. That's the last thing I want to do at 30 below. K Hafner MD