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Bozeman Mountain Works Side Zip Vapr Bivy Long Left zip
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todd h
(funnymoney) - MLife

Locale: SE
Re: sorry. on 09/07/2007 06:53:58 MDT Print View

No, JT, "Anyone" wouldn't do the same thing you did. Some would, but most of the fine folks at this forum would not.

YOU offered an item at a price, someone agreed to YOUR price, and you backed off your offering price, which really was a "promise" to sell for that price, just as the prospective buyer "promised" to pay you the same price.

You broke a promise. I agree that it's ok to make a profit, but underlying that belief is it must be made ethically.


john flanagan
(jackfl) - F

Locale: New England
Time to move on? on 09/07/2007 07:00:20 MDT Print View

JT - I have and do appreciate your contributions to this community. I also agree that the way you've handled this transaction to date is in poor form. I have also occasionally found that I put gear out there at a price that was "too low" - and agree that that's my mistake and I need to suck it up. Use Ebay for auctions. The norm here is to set the price and let the race begin.

That said, I think you've probably heard the message enough - time for all of us to let it go and move on. I hope that you can accept the feedback and that the rest of us can leave it be. If it's still an option, it would be awefully nice if you can honor the original agreement.

Edited by jackfl on 09/07/2007 07:01:15 MDT.

John S.
(jshann) - F
$0.2 on 09/07/2007 08:52:14 MDT Print View

Seems too easy to set up false bidding for that to be allowed on BPL forum.

Jeffrey Hartman
(jeffhartman1019) - F

Locale: midwest
just a suggestion on 09/07/2007 09:07:00 MDT Print View

why dont you just let the first person to respond to the 150 offer have the chance to decide if they want it for 175 and work your way down
just a suggestion


Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Question on 09/07/2007 10:37:10 MDT Print View

Did anybody respond to the original posting at $150 with an offer to purchase, prior to the price being changed to $175?

Thank you.

Charles Bilz
(denalijoe) - F

Locale: California
Re: Sorry? I think not on 09/07/2007 10:45:34 MDT Print View


Your just greedy and your actions are totaly UNethical!

You offered the bivy for $150 and accepted $150 for it. If you wanted $175 for the bivy you should have asked $175 for it! And NO, not everyone in your situation would have done the same thing. Do the right thing and take the $150, accept your lose and move on.


Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1) - M

Locale: Eastern Pennsylvania
Question on 09/07/2007 10:45:54 MDT Print View

Hi Rick,

I believe from his response, that Joe Winters did. But, you will need to have confirmation from Joe or JT.

If JT does as he has indicated the bidding ends this afternoon and he will accept the highest bid.

As I have indicated, I will not have any dealings with JT for any of his future sales due to his unethical business practice.


Edited by naturephoto1 on 09/07/2007 11:55:17 MDT.

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Question on 09/07/2007 11:03:17 MDT Print View

I'm seeking clarification on Gear Swap Forum terms and conditions.

However, IF a purchase offer of $150 was accepted by the seller, prior to the price being raised to $175, THEN a contract had been entered. If that is the case, I strongly suggest that that contract be honored by both parties.


Edited by halfturbo on 09/07/2007 11:03:55 MDT.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Re: Question on 09/07/2007 11:26:01 MDT Print View


Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
The Facts Are Clear on 09/07/2007 11:38:01 MDT Print View


1. The original post -- seen by more than just one or two of us -- clearly stated $150 sale price.

2. Joe Winter posted that he PM'ed the seller.

3. The SELLER himself wrote "sorry, but this is more in demand than I thought"! So clearly, there were others who responded as well!

4. The SELLER also wrote "for the first time someone is willing to offer more than my asking price and im getting flamed".

Never mind Joe Winter's post -- seller has implicated himself about receiving multiple acceptances -- some of them higher than his original asking price!

Tom Clark
(TomClark) - MLife

Locale: East Coast
My expectations on 09/07/2007 12:00:38 MDT Print View

I don't know the content of every posting or PM on this topic, so I'd just like to comment on my expectation of this Gear Swap in general. I don't expect it to be ebay, and don't want it to be.

Most people on this site applaud gear manufacturers that bend over backwards to provide good service and price...and some of the owners of those companies are trying to make a living from it, so they HAVE to be primarily profit driven. We should expect the same from fellow members. I think the way this Gear Swap currently works is great, with most people working to get a win-win situation. Thanks to Christopher Chupka and David Stenberg for making it a pleasant exchange for me in the past! I want to think of this site and its members as a community and not competitive.

I will not participate in a bidding war. Please don't change the nature of this Gear Swap.


Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: The Facts Are Clear on 09/07/2007 12:20:57 MDT Print View

Hi Ben,

The scenario you describe wouldn't constitute a contract; the seller would have had to accept one of the offers at $150 for a contract to exist. That's strictly from a legal standpoint, and doesn't address whether forum terms and conditions have been adhered to, much less the spirit of this community.

Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1) - M

Locale: Eastern Pennsylvania
Ethics on 09/07/2007 12:35:07 MDT Print View

Hi Rick,

Whether JT accepted the offer or not, he had posted a price of $150 for the Bivy. He was contacted for the asking price. He may have subsequently received additional offers for up to $175. He then rethought his original price and his options. Ethically (though maybe not legally binding), JT should have accepted his original request (which was met) and is in the good faith and spirit of this forum and community. You do not change the rules in the middle of the game.


Edited by naturephoto1 on 09/07/2007 12:41:14 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
As Others Have Said... on 09/07/2007 12:46:42 MDT Print View

Hi Rick:

Sorry if I was unclear... I was not talking about strict legal requirements. I was more interested in the SPIRIT of the offering -- within this Forum environment.

Seller made a clear offer of $150 for the bivy. Just as clearly, more than one buyer responded affirmatively. The absence of acceptance IS THE ISSUE! Seller's refusal to accept is the very thing that goes against the spirit of this community -- as evidenced by numerous and consistent complaints posted thus far.

In any case, who would be DUMB ENOUGH to submit a higher bid publically -- after reading all this?

Edited by ben2world on 09/07/2007 12:49:12 MDT.

Sven Klingemann
(svenklingemann) - F
Re: As Others Have Said... on 09/07/2007 13:00:02 MDT Print View

I agree with the other comments pointing out that once a buyer offers the initial asking price, both parties should stick to the price that was advertised. There is a very simple solution for sellers (and buyers) who want to play the supply and demand game:
(A) post it on ebay and provide the link as part of a forum post. Just don't complain about the ebay fees. That's part of capitalism too.
(B) Do your bidding wars privately by not advertising a fixed price but asking potential buyers to contact you directly.
Otherwise, be nice and play by the unwritten rules that have made the gear swapping/selling on this site such a success.

William Brokob
(Obiwan) - F
Bad Form IMO on 09/07/2007 13:33:49 MDT Print View

New guy here...but I have sold a lot of stuff on different forums

1. Most all of them forbid auctions

2. A deal is a deal

I have seen stuff I sold later resold for much, much more
I knew something was up when 4 people said "I'll take it" in the first hour after I posted

But hey...I got what I thought it was worth....I should be happy...and I am

And the guy that paid 50% more...I think he is an idiot

But what do I know???

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Bids still welcome? on 09/07/2007 13:40:43 MDT Print View

Has the auction ended?

I like to wait to the very last seconds of the auctions...snaking others out of the good deals!

Thomas Knighton
(Tomcat1066) - F

Locale: Southwest GA
My Bid on 09/07/2007 14:42:05 MDT Print View

I bid $300 for it.

Unfortunately, it's in Monopoly money.


sam sam
(123456789) - F
JT, will buy it for US $ on 09/07/2007 15:08:19 MDT Print View

Is it still available? If so, let me know, and I will buy it for your price.


P.S. My Terms.

Sam .
(samurai) - F

Locale: NEPA
Is JT a Crook? on 09/07/2007 16:03:28 MDT Print View

Podcast is in pre-production.