The best clothing combinations for backpacking or hiking?
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Bill B
(bill123) - MLife
Re: R1 Hoody Temperature Range on 09/10/2007 12:30:57 MDT Print View

Richard,

Thanks for the reply. Most of my trips are backpacking moderate terrain w/ 20 lbs or less (hopefully much less) in 75 deg down and I suspected that the R1 was pushing it for the upper end of those temps.
Thanks!

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
R1 hoody, Cloudveil Hoody and Ragged Mountain Hoody on 09/10/2007 19:41:21 MDT Print View

Richard, how do you think this Cloudveil power stretch hoody below would compare with your Ragged Mountain power stretch hoody and Patagonia R1 hoody for warmth, drying time, wind resistance and range of use (for the last of these I believe you've said the R1 would have the greatest range of use)? I've seen the Ragged Mountain power stretch hoody, it's been used by SF soldiers.

Note that the Cloudveil Run Don't Walk pullover hoody uses material that is 88% Polyester, 12% Spandex, 231 g/m2 and weighs 9 oz. in a size medium.

http://www.cloudveil.com/mens/pullovers/run+dont+walk+hoodie--CV06614/

The Patagonia R1 Hoody is supposed to weigh 309 g (10.9 oz) in a size medium.

How much does your full-zip Ragged Mountain Hoody weigh? I believe my wife's REI power stretch full zip hoody is made of similar power stretch material to your Ragged Mountain hoody (thinner with low abrasion resistance).

I don't think the weight penalty would have been that great to make a full zip for the Patagonia R1 or the Cloudveil. Going with a full zip improves range of use and without hand warming pockets the penalty for extending the zip probably is only 1 to 1.5 ounces. Given that the Patagonia R1 is a climbing piece, I could understand avoiding a zipper near the harness.

I have to replace an older piece I've really worn down and I'm trying to decide between the above options quick, as I managed to snag one of the few remaining R1 hoodies in my size and I'm keeping the tags on for now.

Really appreciate your advice. I'm fanatical about my core pieces, especially now that I've got them dialed in so well.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: R1 hoody, Cloudveil Hoody and Ragged Mountain Hoody on 09/10/2007 20:08:46 MDT Print View

EJ - My guess is that the Cloudveil and Ragged Mountain are approximately equivalent garments. I would have to see a Couldveil to be sure. My only issue with the Ragged Mountain is that they didn't tailer the material from the chin to the neck like they did on the R1. Large air gaps tend to billow out warm air. The Power Stretch garments are a little warmer and fully featured to justify their additional .5 oz. All weights are for my size L garments.

Smartwool - 12.5 oz
R1 - 13 oz
Ragged Mountain (full zip and crotch strap) - 13.5 oz
Ibex Shak - 21 oz

Edited by richard295 on 09/10/2007 20:20:15 MDT.

Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1) - M

Locale: Eastern Pennsylvania
Patagonia R1 Hoody on 09/10/2007 20:22:27 MDT Print View

Hi Richard,

Unless my scale is off, my digital scale (measures in .2oz or 5g increments) indicated that my large Patagonia R1 Hoody weighs either 12.2 or possibly 12.3 oz. Mine may weigh a little less than yours but within the weight range for this piece of apparel.

Also if you did not pick up on it, Cloudveil indicates their Walk Don't Run Power Stretch Hoody weighs 9 oz in medium. Their weight measurement could be in error however.

Rich

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
weights, what you use Ibex Shak and Smartwool for, Supplex pants on 09/10/2007 22:19:14 MDT Print View

Rich, you are probably right about the Cloudveil weight being off. However, I was shocked to learn a few years back that a Cloudveil Large jacket I got on eBay weighed in at almost 2 ounces BELOW the Cloudveil weight for a medium listed on their website.

Richard, what do you use your Ibex Shak Hoody for and what do you use your Smartwool hoody for? My wife and I have Ibex softshell pants (Guidelite - they are so comfortable over such a wide range below 60F that we have them on most of the winter) and base layers, and I'm a big fan of the company, but we stayed away from the Shak because of the heavy weight - we always knew we could have warmer insulation at a little more than half the weight of the Shak.

Also, what type of supplex pants do you use, and are they zipoff?

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: weights, what you use Ibex Shak and Smartwool for, Supplex pants on 09/11/2007 00:23:42 MDT Print View

EJ - I have taken a number of multi-month expeditions. I characterize the clothing I choose for them as expedition wear. Most of my trips are in more benign environments.

After a hearing a few, "... that top really looks nice..." combined with great comfort, both of my Merino wool tops became my non-expedition outdoor favorites. For expeditions, the much more pedestrian looking, but the lighter, more thermally efficient, and quicker drying Power Dry and Power Stretch tops are what I prefer.

Regarding Supplex nylon pants, I make the same two environment distinctions. I use non-zip-off Ex Oficio with integral mesh briefs for non expedition wear because of their good looks and comfort. The non-zip-off Rail Rider X-Treme Adventure Pants are my expedition standard.

Edited by richard295 on 09/11/2007 19:29:52 MDT.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
merino on 09/11/2007 08:07:42 MDT Print View

Richard, thanks for confirming what I always thought. I love the merino wool garments I have, but anything beyond base layer - one very thin l/s (Ibex Pacifica) for most conditions and a thicker one for the coldest weather (Ibex l/s zip about 11 oz, forget what it's called), and merino/cordura softshell pants (Ibex Climawool Guidelite and Backcountry pant) I wound up using casually or selling. And I wind up using the heavier top and heavier merino softshell pant for day trips. Not as thermally efficient for the weight and I find heavier merino takes much longer to dry (thin merino base layers dry as fast as synthetic).

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
power stretch and wind pro with Hardface on 09/11/2007 17:01:22 MDT Print View

Richard, I'm curious, have you ever run any tests on Polartec power stretch or wind pro with Harface? These garments tend to be a little more water resistant and a bit more wind resistant than regular power stretch or wind pro and just about as breathable. And a lot more durable (no outside pilling or snagging). Polartech Power Stretch or Polartec Wind Pro with Hardface is a great option when you need more durability or just want a fleece jacket or bottoms to keep from pilling and snagging.

Also have you run any tests on thin Wind Pro?

My Arcteryx Fugitive Hoody, which I picked up in a trade, has a full zip and handwarmer pockets and weighs in at only about 15 ounces - that's not a lot heavier than the Patagonia R1 Hoody, which is heavier than I thought. In fact, if this piece was made without handwarmer pockets, it would probably have come in only an ounce more than the R1 Hoody. I'd describe the material under the Hardface coating as a light wind pro fleece.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
R1 fabric on 09/11/2007 17:10:37 MDT Print View

BTW, I held up the R1 fabric to a light and looked from the inside out and couldn't believe how thin the fabric is in the slots between the grids. Practically see-through. This would have to make it more breathable and more comfortable at higher temps than power stretch.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
R1 Hoody cut is excellent on 09/11/2007 19:02:23 MDT Print View

You were right - the R1 Hoody cut is excellent all over - body, arms, shoulders, neck and head. I hope to compare it with the Cloudveil power stretch hoody soon.

Brett .
(Brett1234) - F

Locale: CA
R1sell again in 2008? on 09/11/2007 20:37:27 MDT Print View

Will Patagonia sell the R1s in 2008 again? They are selling out on the website despite Winter being a few months away. Patagonia has not answered this email question yet; anyone know?

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
how to get R1 Hoody now on 09/11/2007 20:45:03 MDT Print View

Hi Brett,

You can still get a few of them through the stores. Call up Patagonia during business hours - ask which stores still have them in stock. I got one out of maybe 10 left in my size nationwide (and best was having a gift card for it). Also, a few online retailers may carry it as well. But the Patagonia stores are your best bet. Don't let Patagonia call their stores for you - get the telephone numbers from them and call them directly.

Best of luck!

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: R1sell again in 2008? on 09/11/2007 20:48:36 MDT Print View

A local mountaineering store claims another shipment is on it's way. I'm on the list for one as soon as they show. Sure I could order one online but I want to try the sizing between a medium and small so I figured I'd support the local store.

Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1) - M

Locale: Eastern Pennsylvania
Patagonia R1 Hoody on 09/11/2007 21:05:29 MDT Print View

Hi Brett,

REI still lists the Patagonia R1 Hoody as available in Medium. Also, AJs still shows them available in S, M, and L (not familiar with them, but they list the item as available).

Here is the Link:

http://tinyurl.com/yvtvnb

Rich

Don Wilson
(don) - MLife

Locale: Koyukuk River, Alaska
R1 Hoody still in Spring lineup on 09/11/2007 21:05:37 MDT Print View

I believe the R1 hoody is still in the product lineup for 2008. I love it too. Versatile, warm, excellent cut. I'll be taking mine on the BPL Wilderness Trekking course next month.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: power stretch and wind pro with Hardface on 09/11/2007 21:49:57 MDT Print View

EJ - The most common Power Stretch hard-face option is #7767 (60% polyester, 30% nylon, and 10% Lycra) versus the most common soft-face option # 7622 (94% Polyester & 6% Lycra). I only use the soft-face version for the following reasons:

1. The soft-face stretch is 100% width and 100% length versus only 60% width and 60% length for the hard-face.
2. The soft-face clo is .975 versus .953 for the hard face.
3. The soft-face air permeability is better (210) versus the hard-face (163).
4. I already carry a windshirt and it addresses the abrasion resistance and wind blocking requirements when needed.

I have tested the #7774 Wind Block version but not the Wind Pro. I only use my Wind Block for around-the-city wear. The clo is great at 1.275 but it is very heavy at 9.9 oz per yd. In addition the integral wind proof membrane is redundant with the function of my windshirt.

Edited by richard295 on 09/11/2007 21:51:42 MDT.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
Hardface, not nylon power stretch; Polartec Wind Pro on 09/11/2007 22:15:52 MDT Print View

By Hardface, I'm not referring to a power stretch mix with nylon on the outside, but to a new material from Polartec which puts a light coating (urethane?) on the outside of the power stretch or wind pro fleece.
http://www.polartec.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/843

How does Polartec Wind Pro rate in your measurements versus Power Stretch and Power Dry? Light Wind Pro garments can work very well over a fairly wide range.

I stay away from any type of wind blocking fleece for active use. Just too hot and not breathable enough. Around town, yes. But even around town I find them hot. Plus I always carry a highly breathable wind shell (Houdini) or in winter, an excellent light Patagonia hooded softshell jacket. I currently use the Arcteryx Wind Pro with Hardface hoody for around town and travel, for which it's well suited. The Hardface garments seem to give up a little loft/warmth for the Hardface coating.

I know you carry a wind shell as well, but I personally prefer the power stretch blend that includes nylon near the surface (though again this is not called Hardface, which is another Polartec product). The surface nylon not only makes the garment more durable, but it adds a little wind resistance, which means it can be used longer before having to throw on a wind shell. I run and x-country ski in this type of power stretch top and bottom in winter. Only when it is very windy and very cold I throw on my wind shell or light softshell and a more wind blocking tight. I find the stretch in this type of power stretch more than sufficient for active sports. If you are only giving up .022 clo, that's not a bad trade off for more wind resistance and wider use range.

I find my Houdini excellent overall, but I don't think it would stand up to a lot of abrasion and I try to be careful with it. My light winter softshell is much more durable.

Brett .
(Brett1234) - F

Locale: CA
R1, just couldn't justify it yet on 09/12/2007 00:09:50 MDT Print View

EJ, Chris, Richard; thanks for the leads. The total cost of about $149 from REI is just too much considering I have many fleece jackets already. I had it in my cart but chickened out. I'll consider it again in the Fall. I do have a shadow hoodie on order which might suffice.
Interestingly, I noticed REI now has their own "REI Hoodie" in polyester fleece, but the hood looks saggy, like gang-wear, not like the technical balaclava syle hood on the R1.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
right there with you Brett on 09/12/2007 07:06:56 MDT Print View

Hi Brett,

I'm right there with you. I wouldn't have picked mine up if:

a) I wasn't selling a regular zip top R1 from a few years back I haven't used much and a few other items now. Surprisingly used Patagonia items hold their value ridiculously well, even taking on a vintage value. I have bought used Patagonia items on eBay that I have sold for the same price or more a year or more later.

b) I didn't already have a gift certificate from a return from last year.

I keep a list, and any new piece of gear, I always have to justify the use AND sell the item it replaces before I can let myself make the purchase. I also have been fortunate to be able to barter with some smaller gear shops.

The most impressive thing about the R1 Hoody is the fit. Wearing the hoody around town will make you look like a Special Forces sperm right out of Woody Allen's Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex But Were Afraid to Ask; but it is a very comfortable and thermally efficient design.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
shadow hoody? on 09/12/2007 07:08:47 MDT Print View

What is the Shadow Hoody? What is it made of and who makes it?