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Jeff Gerke
(mtnrunner) - M

Locale: Utah
How long would these foods last without refrigeration? on 07/21/2014 11:42:16 MDT Print View

How long would the following foods last without refrigeration?

Tortillas
Mustard
Extra Sharp Cheddar
Nutella

Ben H.
(bzhayes) - F

Locale: So. California
Re: How long would these foods last without refrigeration? on 07/21/2014 12:06:44 MDT Print View

Tortillas - depends on how many preservatives.. I would guess a week to a month or maybe more
Mustard - does not need refrigeration
Extra Sharp Cheddar - does not need refrigeration
Nutella - does not need refrigeration

Jeff Gerke
(mtnrunner) - M

Locale: Utah
Re: Re: How long would these foods last without refrigeration? on 07/21/2014 12:38:16 MDT Print View

Thanks Ben. I've been experimenting with mustard with horseradish in it for some shorter trips. The bottle says to refrigerate after opening. I think most mustard bottles say to refrigerate after opening. Is this not necessary then? I've been using Mission brand tortillas. Probably lots of preservatives.

Edited by mtnrunner on 07/21/2014 12:39:15 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: How long would these foods last without refrigeration? on 07/21/2014 13:18:19 MDT Print View

I had some tortillas mailed back to me from Rainier NP that spent a couple months sitting in a bucket in ziplock bags. No sign of mold or spoilage.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: How long would these foods last without refrigeration? on 07/21/2014 13:34:17 MDT Print View

How long the food will last is subjective. Lots of food labels will recommend refrigeration because that will keep the flavor best for the longest time. If not refrigerated, they won't spoil or mold or rot immediately, but they may seem stale pretty soon.

--B.G.--

Ben H.
(bzhayes) - F

Locale: So. California
Re: Re: Re: How long would these foods last without refrigeration? on 07/21/2014 13:35:34 MDT Print View

" I think most mustard bottles say to refrigerate after opening. Is this not necessary then? "

Use at your own risk, but mustard did not used to say it needed refrigeration. The only thing that has changed is the lawyers for the mustard company. My parents buy a 1 gallon jug of mustard from Sam's Club and it sits opened in their pantry for months.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: How long would these foods last without refrigeration? on 07/21/2014 17:51:02 MDT Print View

Many foods now say "refrigerate after opening" and they didn't 20-30 years ago. It all comes down to liability and insurance, not that it needs to be done. Ever wonder why vinegar heavy or salty foods sit on counters? They do not go bad easily. Soy sauce, fish sauce, hot sauce, mustard, ketchup and so on.

Now then, the more junk ingredients added to a product, the more likely it could go bad - so buy the real stuff, with only what it needs ;-)

Peter J
(northoakland) - M

Locale: Temescal Creek
cheese on 07/21/2014 21:47:07 MDT Print View

Cheese with a rind tends to last longer than the plastic wrapped variety. I'd caution against taking aged cheddar. Bring some mild cheddar and by the time you get around to eating it the cheese will have gotten stronger. I ended up with some exra sharp cheddar that still looked fine but after two weeks we could barely open the food bag because it smelled so strong. I couldn't eat it anymore either.

How long food will stay good for depends a lot how warm the food will be stored. At a cool temperature thing will stay tastey for a lot longer.

Is this for a mailed food box, or more like a river trip in Canada?

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: How long would these foods last without refrigeration? on 07/21/2014 22:06:49 MDT Print View

I've seen sharp cheddar carried in a bear canister in typical august sierra weather go for 8-9 days without any noticeable changes.
When it gets real hot though it will get goopy and greasy.
I'm considering making a cozy for my cheese and chocolate food.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Bacpacker recent issue on 07/21/2014 22:56:30 MDT Print View

There is a good article on foods in the recent Backpacker issue. There are some cool recipes ideas there, though Backpacker tends more towards the fancy meal stuff.

Anyway there is a chart apropos to this thread there, which I partially scanned below. I think this is fair use, but it anyone thinks it is not I will delete it and just type some of the info instead. Anyway, if you get the latest issue there is a discussion of the issue of food longevity. Biggest surprise to me is how long they say Parmesan is good on the trail - like a month.

c

Edited by millonas on 07/21/2014 23:03:21 MDT.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/21/2014 23:32:05 MDT Print View

If you buy a good brand of Parmesan cheese - the real, imported stuff, it has a very short list of ingredients. It lasts because it is already a very hard (dry) cheese. Cheddar if made right also lasts - but does get oil and soft. Americans are used to firm cheese, because it is kept cold. Yet, most cheese shouldn't be served cold!

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/21/2014 23:35:55 MDT Print View

I assume they were talking about the ground kind. I recently got a box of the individually seal packets, so I guess those might last for a year or more.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/21/2014 23:40:52 MDT Print View

The sealed packets, especially the plastic ones by Kraft, have a VERY long shelf life. Kraft Parmesan cheese has cellulose added to it now, which keeps it the same constantly. It stays pourable and soft. Better living through wood pulp ;-)

Billy Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 07:34:25 MDT Print View

Imported Parmesan blocks from the deli section... I don't use it for pasta... just slicing off for lunch snacks...

and string cheese in individual packets though they can get oily if it gets warm.

Billy

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 07:56:18 MDT Print View

Unfortunately I purchased some awesome tortillas from Trader Joes a while ago - I counted out the tortillas I'd need and ziploc'd everything up.....

Then a few days later I was putting everything into the boxes to be mailed - and those darned preservative free fresh tortillas had mold all over them!!!

Needless to say I, unfortunately, go with the uber-preserved Mission ones now, without issue.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 08:49:26 MDT Print View

The tortillas I buy from my whole foods type store get moldy almost instantaneously if don't put them in the fridge right away, and in about a week if I do. I think they come pre-innoculated with mold - for extra flavor, nutrients and organic mojo. :-)

Jeff Gerke
(mtnrunner) - M

Locale: Utah
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 09:07:24 MDT Print View

Thanks for the input everyone.

Marko - What issue is the Backpacker mag you are referring to? I will pick one up when I go to my local REI for supplies if it is still on the magazine stand. Sounds like an interesting article.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 10:18:55 MDT Print View

August 2014, says "Best Summer Ever" in yellow letters. Don't expect too much - as is usually the best policy for Backpacker. Its less of an article than a random series of recipes and things. There are a lot of good ideas for trail meals, but that chart (was just checking) is about it for longevity.

Some of the pictures in that issue are in my opinion "food porn", like they have in the fancy foodie magazines. Really makes you want to make them - or else eat something immediately.

Edited by millonas on 07/22/2014 10:21:59 MDT.

Jeff Gerke
(mtnrunner) - M

Locale: Utah
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 10:44:21 MDT Print View

I hear ya. I had a subscription for one year to Backpacker magazine a couple years ago so I know not to expect much. I'll make sure to look at the article before I purchase.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 14:53:07 MDT Print View

Marko, that is because the recipes are all shot inside, in a studio. And many of the recipes are not UL hiking doable by any means.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Mission brand tortilla on 07/22/2014 15:07:27 MDT Print View

I had the same experience as Jen.
Mission tortillas have longer time than other brands I've tried before they mold.

I've had reasonably good luck with bagels lasting a long time without spoilage.
Baby pitas from trader joe's too are good.
King's hawaiian bread rolls are good too. they are not fluffy and not dense, so they take up a lot of space for the weight, but it's not that bad, because after you eat them, they are gone from your bear can :)

external contamination:
I try to keep the finger/bread handling to a minimum, by separating and sliding out the piece that I want, from the outside of the bag, basically using the plastic bag as a finger barrier.

Moisture:
I put paper towels inside the bread bag to absorb moisture. Unopened Single serving Salt & Pepper packets are good too if you don't have silica.

oxidization:
squeeze as much air as you can. air has humidity...

Green blue mold:
read up on how penicillin was discovered, a new appreciation for the oldie and moldy.

Edited by RogerDodger on 07/22/2014 15:08:17 MDT.

Piper S.
(sbhikes) - F

Locale: Santa Barbara (Name: Diane)
Mustard on 07/22/2014 19:53:16 MDT Print View

Mustard requires refrigeration? I've been storing mustard and sriracha sauce unrefrigerated in my office for months and eating a little every day. Always tastes good.

Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear1) - F

Locale: BPL purgatory
Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 22:08:51 MDT Print View

I'm going to assume and hope that Romano is similar to Parmesan, because i much prefer the former to the latter.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Bacpacker recent issue on 07/22/2014 22:20:45 MDT Print View

Unlike Jennifer, my TJs tortillas lasted at least 8 days - I just ate my last Roast Beef-Cheddar-Cream Cheese wrap after crossing the Arctic Circle (southbound) this morning. Now, I did keep them in soft cooler for 3 days. Then in airplane luggage on 3 flights for 4,000 miles (it's cool at 33,000 feet), then in the rental-car trunk from Fairbanks to the Brooks Range. Then in my pack for two days (also in Gates of the Arctic).

Edited to add: I'm now home, and the TJ tortillas have gone another 300 miles by road, spent a day in Fairbanks, two more flights, and a night in the hallway before I unpacked. And are still fine.

YMMV. Based on your climate.

But based on the above info, I'd go with the Mission ones in the future.

Edited by DavidinKenai on 07/23/2014 18:02:26 MDT.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Cheese on 07/23/2014 22:33:22 MDT Print View

Justin,

Romano is the same - mostly. It just has to do with where it is made and what milk is used. It can often be made with sheep or goat's milk, although cow is used also.

Both it and Parmesan are hard, salty - and delicious - cheese :-)