Just read about this at the kirou.com website. It looks like Brunton has created a stand that turns conventional top-burner canister stoves into remote canister stoves. Not sure on the weight or cost of the adapter, but it could be nice for use in colder conditions.

http://www.kirou.com/2007/08/24/brunton-stove-news/

Nice setup, from the picture it is not clear if it has gas a pre-heat tube, if it doesn’t it could be dangerous if the canister is turned over for cold weather liquid feed.

Tony

Please note that site say NOTHING about inverting the canister for liquid feed. Just about keeping it removed to 'keep the canister warm' (aka maybe cupping it in your hand?) Also, this would allow for windscreens. Inverting with be at your own risk.

Would liquid fuel spray out before igniting? That's what I've heard, but never seen any actual test results.
BPL test?

Take a look at this stove designed to have an inverted canister...what do you see that's different than the Brunton design?



It's the tube that runs through the burner. This tube allows the fuel to vaporize before getting to the burner. Without it, I think you would have liquid fuel at the burner, right?

Sounds dangerous to me...

Hi Brett,

In cold conditions my liquid feed JetBoil and double Pocket Rocket stoves on startup produce a large yellow ball of flame for a few seconds until the pre-heat tube heats up enough to vaporize the liquid gas. If the fuel was not pre-heated this large yellow flame would happen all of the time and would be inefficient and dangerous. In warm conditions the heat absorbed through the fuel line is often enough to vaporize the liquid and there is little or no flame up.

One of my stoves and a canister are in the freezer overnight so I can try and take some pictures of what happens in the morning to post.

Tony

Here in europe Vaude markill sell another remote adapter simple and cheap.

http://zenstoves.net/Canister/Stand.jpg

http://zenstoves.net/Canister.htm

http://www.robinsonshop.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=96_98&products_id=860

"Would liquid fuel spray out before igniting?"

Potentially, from my understanding everyone seems to believe this is a dangerous thing. I suspect, however, that this is only dangerous if you're trying to run the thing at full-tilt. Liquid HAS to vaporize before it can ignite. If you're spraying a crap load of liquid into cold air you may be spraying it faster than it can light in the flame path... but it may light a moment later (aka after it's spread all over).

I suspect that, as long one is careful and doesn't open the valve up too far, you'll be fine. (Realize, I have yet to have a good opportunity to do this myself).

Ultimately, though, for true cold weather camping a liquid feed stove WITH pre-heat tube is the 'safest' thing.

My comment was mainly to stop the FUD-spreading of remote canister mount being 'designed' to allow for inverted duty. This one ISN'T, doing so would result in operating it outside of the manufactures intended purpose and should ONLY be done with that understanding and that you MAY be doing something potentially dangerous.

PS - Hmm... it occurs to me that one of these remote stands (brunto or markil) may provide me a way to make my Tri-Ti into a Quad-Ti...

Edited by jdmitch on 08/28/2007 07:45:23 MDT.

Trangia makes a gas adaptor (6.2 oz.) for the 25 and 27 series of cooksets.

http://www.trangia.se/english/2917.trangia_accessories.html

There is not much flame adjustment in the inverted mode. When you shut it off in the inverted mode it burns for a while just like a white gas stove before going out. It wastes fuel and may not be safe to ignite in the inverted mode. However after ignition is is simple to invert and works as well as a white gas stove.

Hi Joshua, Brett,

Below are some pictures of one of my prototype stoves operating with a pre-heat tube and without a pre-heat tube, The canister has been in the freezer at -20C (-4F).

“My comment was mainly to stop the FUD-spreading of remote canister mount being 'designed' to allow for inverted duty. This one ISN'T, doing so would result in operating it outside of the manufactures intended purpose and should ONLY be done with that understanding and that you MAY be doing something potentially dangerous.


Potentially, from my understanding everyone seems to believe this is a dangerous thing. I suspect, however, that this is only dangerous if you're trying to run the thing at full-tilt. Liquid HAS to vaporize before it can ignite. If you're spraying a crap load of liquid into cold air you may be spraying it faster than it can light in the flame path... but it may light a moment later (aka after it's spread all over).


I suspect that, as long one is careful and doesn't open the valve up too far, you'll be fine. (Realize, I have yet to have a good opportunity to do this myself).”

The fact that it CAN be inverted without a pre-heat tube is a concern to me, (manufactures design or warning or not), in my stove designing and testing I have experienced how easily it is to have a flare-up with an inverted canister stove and I certainly would not like to have a big flair-up inside a tent.

From what I can find out the density of gas in liquid form is approximately 200 times more than it is in gaseous form. (Please correct me if that is incorrect.) so it does not take a lot of liquid gas to make a large air gas mixture.

Tony

Edited by tbeasley on 08/28/2007 19:59:41 MDT.

"Trangia makes a gas adaptor (6.2 oz.) for the 25 and 27 series of cooksets.

http://www.trangia.se/english/2917.trangia_accessories.html"

Richard, nice call I had completely forgotten about that. With a good mounting system... maybe some BPL Ti rods or just use some of my stakes... that could work pretty good fro my Tri-Ti.

"From what I can find out the density of gas in liquid form is approximately 200 times more than it is in gaseous form. (Please correct me if that is incorrect.) so it does not take a lot of liquid gas to make a large air gas mixture."

Depends on the fluid, but 200x1 is probably pretty close. you pictures are a brilliant showing of why one would want to be extremely careful. I presumed you caused it to flare up by simply inverting the canister while burning?

By the way, that's a beautiful burner. You said you made it yourself? Am I seeing right that the preheat tube is modular? aka, you only have to take it when you need it?

Edited by jdmitch on 09/04/2007 15:45:04 MDT.

Hi Joshua,

“I presumed you caused it to flare up by simply inverting the canister while burning?”

Yes and the canister was just out of the freezer at -20ºC (-4ºC).



My hobby is designing and making little backpacking stoves, the above stove is experimental prototype stove that I designed and made for use under a Caldera cone style pot support, the stove is modular at the moment so I can change its configuration to work out its optimum operating specs. It was the easiest stove to modify to show the effects of putting liquid gas through a non pre-heat tube stove.

I am also very interested in stove burner design and have been following the μGiga Burner Orientation debate with interest but due to an urgent work commitment I will be unable to participate in the debate in the next day or two.

Tony

Below is some links to some of my other creations.

A picture of the finished 14.2g (0.5oz) stove is further down the thread

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/8455/index.html?skip_to_post=61549#61549

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/7906/index.html?skip_to_post=57090#57090

"My hobby is designing and making little backpacking stoves, the above stove is experimental prototype stove that I designed and made for use under a Caldera cone style pot support,"

I'd so like to get into that one day... BTW, a completely vertical orientation like you have on this one is likely the very best for use in a Caldera Cone.

Richard wrote "However after ignition it is simple to invert and works as well as a white gas stove."

Are you refering only to stoves with a pre-heat tube, or do you mean any stove with a remote canister. This statement leads me to believe that as long as you light the stove with the canister upright, you can invert the canister afterwards and performance will be comparable to white gas.
Does this mean that a pre-heat tube is really only beneficial for lighting the stove? Just wanted to clarify, as I have the Primus Gravity EF (no pre-heat tube), but never thought of inverting the canister to get cold weather performance.

Set me straight before I hurt myself!

Edited by Steve_Evans on 09/06/2007 20:32:58 MDT.

Hi Steven

> I have the Primus Gravity EF (no pre-heat tube), but never thought of inverting the canister to get cold weather performance.
Ah - that would be kinda wierd, as the EF normally comes with a preheat tube. I quote from the Primus web site:
"Stable and simple LP gas stove. For those who want a small, stable stove and appreciate the simplicity of using LP gas. Thanks to our preheating coil, the stove can even be used at low temperatures. Gravity EF has a built-in piezo igniter and comes with a windscreen."

So to answer your question, yes, the Gravity series can be used with a liquid feed from the canister. Start with canister upright, light, wait 5 seconds, and carefully invert. PS: make sure the vents underneath are OPEN.

Cheers

Yes, a preheat tube is necessary for inverted canister operation. I have never looked at the Primus Gravity EF, but it is described as having a preheat tube.

In inverted canister operation there is a long delay between operation of the valve and flame level. When you shut the stove off it burns about like the Optimus Nova before going out.

Roger,
Thanks for the instructions...and yes, my EF does have a heat tube (checked last night). I wrote that post at work and I swore it didn't. Now, part B to my question (and I swear it will be my last)...if it didn't have a heat tube, could you still invert the canister and use it in cold weather? Or is the heat tube required for inverted operation?
Steve
p.s. great stove info on your site, I went through it last night.

** EDIT **
Richard, I think we posted at the same time (above post answers my questions - thx!)...thanks guys!!!!

** EDIT #2 **
Got a little carried away/excited with the questions. Just did a search on the BPL site and this topic is discussed in detail. My apologies.

Edited by Steve_Evans on 09/07/2007 08:23:01 MDT.

I own an MSR Wind Pro. It's a remote burner so one can use a full wind screen W/O overheating a canister OR the stove's burner adjustment handle. (Don't ask me how I know about hot canister burner handles.)

So I feel the MSR Wind Pro is a perfect candidate for an updise-down canister holder for colder (but not very cold) weather.

Eric

Eric,

I'll second that with my experience with my inverted Wind Pro. I've had it fired up with no problem down to 10 F.

I don't know if it is necessary but when really cold, I take the time to shake the cannister for a minute before hooking it up and I hold the flame under the pre-heat tube for a few seconds before opening the valve.

Hi Eric

> So I feel the MSR Wind Pro is a perfect candidate for an updise-down canister holder for colder (but not very cold) weather.

The Windpro is shown with an upside down canister supported by DIY Lexan legs at:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/selecting_stoves_for_cold_weather_part_2.html
The three legs plus a rubber band weighed 20 grams.

Note however the valve can get a bit blocked by the odorant in the canister *sometimes*. It happened to me, but waggling the valve kept it clear.

Cheers