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Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
She throws like a girl! on 06/28/2014 16:15:23 MDT Print View

Kinda cool little PSA: http://digg.com/video/what-does-it-mean-to-do-something-like-a-girl

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: She throws like a girl! on 06/28/2014 17:29:45 MDT Print View

What about phrases like "get some balls" when you're suggesting someone be more assertive?

Is that saying women aren't assertive?

Does using that phrase tend to make women less assertive?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re on 06/28/2014 17:40:05 MDT Print View

Someone else sent me that link.
We have a long way to go but it was nice to see the younger girls not fall into that trap as easily as the older ones.

Edited by Kat_P on 06/28/2014 17:59:35 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re on 06/28/2014 17:49:16 MDT Print View

I was thinking that too, but then I thought maybe was that girls get screwed up sometime after puberty.

Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear1) - F

Locale: BPL purgatory
Re: She throws like a girl! on 06/28/2014 20:28:47 MDT Print View

I would like to watch the video, but a recent thunder storm/power outage, completely fried both my modem and wi fi router, so i've been running off my phones mobile hotspot option recently and i have to watch data usage. Too broke to buy new ones right now. Thankfully i pay a little extra each month to the electrical company for this very protection purpose... so theoretically should get some money in a couple of weeks or so.

Can anyone briefly describe the overall gist of said video?


Sometimes i catch myself saying, "you guys", even to a group that has some or many women in it. I think that is perhaps kind of sexist of me. Originally being from the north east but living in VA now, i try not to say y'all, as my little rebellion against the south.. but i'm re-thinking that.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: She throws like a girl! on 06/28/2014 21:13:31 MDT Print View

interviewed males and females of various ages. asked to "throw like a girl". they did it awkwardly. and "fighting like a girl". girls less than puberty did not behave like this. the point being, that societal sexism affects girls in puberty to start throwing awkwardly and other sterotypical behaviors. and when this was brought to people's attention they had "ah ha moment"

cute video

good "left brain" treatment of issue

Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear1) - F

Locale: BPL purgatory
Re: Re: Re: She throws like a girl! on 06/28/2014 22:32:30 MDT Print View

Interesting... Thank you for the break down Jerry. While i do think there are some innate, average differences between the genders, like the video suggests, i've long suspected a lot of it is societal indoctrination, culture influence, etc.

I've always been kind of more attracted to "tom boyish" type women, and long have felt rather "feminine" in a lot of ways, though i'm not outwardly effeminate at all and haven't ever had any sexual/lust type attraction to other men. The feminine part is hard to explain in words. I've always related very well to women, often get along better with them then men, and "feel/think" i think sometimes more like a woman than a guy, in touch and aware of my subtle feelings (though i'm rarely strongly emotional in the usual, or outwardly sense), listen well as a trend, more empathic, tend to perceive/process a bit more in more holistic or intuitive ways than just logically and linearly (though that's definitely strongly mixed in), for some examples that are easier to describe/explain.

Gender is an interesting subject from a lot of viewpoints. I have some "weird" consciousness oriented theories about same (big surprise huh? ;) but BPL is no place for those! I'm thought crazy/imbalanced enough as is.

I will just say that i found Bob Monroe's experience of meeting "He/She" as related in his 3rd and last book, "Ultimate Journey" to be very interesting and very true in a lot of respects, though i suspect many here would find it very unbelievable and out there. And i figured out who "He/She" really is. Actually a very well known person from history, still sticking around and helping people out, just as some old writings describe. Just to briefly say, when Bob met this person, he first referred to them as "He/She", because the person felt perfectly balanced and integrated between masculine and feminine, and in Bob's more nonphysical OBE state, he at first couldn't even perceive if it was a man or woman though the person was in physical form.

Since i've had some OBE's as well, i'm open minded to Bob's experiences--that and i know he was a credible, service oriented, and all around pretty good guy who helped a lot of people when he was around--though he was no saint as they say. I've been friends and met people who knew or were friends with him. These all had a lot of respect for him. Though like any charismatic leader/facilitator type, some put him on a pedestal over much, but he was pretty good at being the anti-guru helper--unusually so, which is why i have a lot of respect for him.

Edited by ArcturusBear1 on 06/29/2014 07:53:52 MDT.

Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear1) - F

Locale: BPL purgatory
Re: Re: Re: She throws like a girl! on 06/28/2014 23:08:26 MDT Print View

Hard to say without actually seeing the video yet, but an alternative explanation besides cultural/societal indoctrination is that when boys and girls are younger, before puberty, their bodies are less flooded with the hormones that tend to be predominant in their respective genders.

Perhaps some of the more overt "differences" besides bodily come in when their bodies are flooded by those different hormones. Yes, i do realize that women/girls do have some testosterone and androgen hormones, and men/boys have some estrogen and similar hormones, but i'm speaking average ratio predominance.

Certainly, if you pump a woman full of testosterone, she does become more "masculine" like in various ways physically and personality wise some, and vice versa with men and estrogen.

I suspect though, that it's a combo of indoctrination/subconscious influencing and hormone increase post puberty.

I've once heard testosterone described as the "f*#! it or kill it" hormone, and to some extent i agree. I have a hypothesis btw that in a guy, if you increased both testosterone, androgen, and growth hormone in the body in general, as well as applying both more specifically to a specific organ at the same time via skin (in DMSO?), along with some mild electrical stimulus of specific frequency to same organ, that one might get the much sought after and holy grail enhancement effect that millions or billions of men look for. I thought of this after watching the both hilarious at times and painful at others, documentary, "Unhung Hero".

Edited by ArcturusBear1 on 06/28/2014 23:15:45 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: She throws like a girl! on 06/29/2014 08:49:19 MDT Print View

hormones would explain why men are better at athletics that require muscle mass like football

I think "throwing like a girl" is a metaphor for something like science or engineering that requires math and science. Few women. 10 year old girls are good at math and science. Maybe hormones are a tiny bit responsible for why girls quit being so good at math and science but I think it's mostly cultural.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: She throws like a girl! on 06/29/2014 22:13:08 MDT Print View

I like it. Thought provoking.

The phrase was also used in an ad featuring the now deceased Flo Jo many years ago. Really turned the phrase on its head because the accompanying photo showed her impressively muscled body running at full speed. I'd give a lot if I could run like that girl.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
I guess it is just me on 06/30/2014 13:16:30 MDT Print View

But I don't mind it. I guess because I'm a guy. I think of throwing like a girl a certain strange throwing motion. And in the video, it would be most kids...then the boys just gets better at it. So if you still throw awkwardly later in life, then it is "like a girl".

Males and females are different. I don't think it benefits us to pretend we are the same.

If you tell somebody to not be a D!ck, then is that sexist too?

Sharon J.
(squark) - F

Locale: SF Bay area
Re: She throws like a girl! on 06/30/2014 14:02:29 MDT Print View

Thanks for that.

It reminds me a bit of this:

"I can remember speaking to a 12-year-old boy, a football player, and I asked him, I said, "How would you feel if, in front of all the players, your coach told you you were playing like a girl?" Now I expected him to say something like, I'd be sad; I'd be mad; I'd be angry, or something like that. No, the boy said to me -- the boy said to me, "It would destroy me." And I said to myself, "God, if it would destroy him to be called a girl, what are we then teaching him about girls?" "
-Tony Porter - A Call to Men

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: I guess it is just me on 06/30/2014 14:07:24 MDT Print View

I think throwing like a girl is a metaphor. Doesn't really matter that much how good you throw unless you're an athlete.

But the same thing applies to other things like math and science - 10 year old girls just as good, after puberty not so good, this makes them unable to get as good jobs. If we didn't consider girls dumb, or you can't get a man unless you pretend to be dumb, then this wouldn't happen.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
wait a minute on 06/30/2014 14:20:37 MDT Print View

Who considers girls dumb? I know that men are more likely to go into math and science fields, but that is a preference (maybe skill). But how is that dumb? And who tells women they need to be dumb to get a guy?

I like smart women. They make more money....

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: I guess it is just me on 06/30/2014 14:30:10 MDT Print View

I'm sure it's not just you... :-)

What the video points out is that too much of the 'does things like a girl' - with a negative connotation - happens at a critical time for the social development of young girls. And we shouldn't be using language that makes them feel somewhat incapable during such a difficult time, we should be using language that's positive and promotes growth, not stagnation.


"And in the video, it would be most kids...then the boys just gets better at it. So if you still throw awkwardly later in life, then it is "like a girl"."

As a generalization that might be somewhat true, but it's nowhere near true on an individual basis. There are many young girls who can 'outdo' boys of the same age in many sports. And while boys may generally get stronger, running naturally and throwing naturally are not based on strength at all. And those girls - and the number is increasing, thank goodness - who refuse to accept the old manner of thought that 'sports are for boys' develop motor skills just as well boys. They can run and throw just as well, if not as fast or far. The only reason far too many girls run or throw 'awkwardly' is because they've been made to feel that's just how it is, thanks to negative language used.

"Males and females are different. I don't think it benefits us to pretend we are the same."

Yup, we're different, but not in the ways that 'throws like a girl' promotes. We're not really different in that aspect - the ability to run, throw, kick, catch, etc. naturally and well.

"If you tell somebody to not be a D!ck, then is that sexist too?"

It's not the same thing at all. And, again, I don't think the point of the video is sexism, I think it's trying to promote not singling out girls at a very delicate point in their lives to make them feel somehow less than boys in any part of life. I think it's a worthy goal.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
hmm on 06/30/2014 14:51:02 MDT Print View

Doug,

Then I suggest you show the video to all the girls you know. It appeared to me that when I was growing up the boys weren't putting down the girls at that all so critical age. It was girls doing it to each other.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: hmm on 06/30/2014 15:10:26 MDT Print View

Michael, yes, it goes beyond what little boys say. If a girl is taught at home that she is helpless but being pretty will help her get what she needs....then she will tell other girls the same. A lot of the media continues to portray women pretty poorly. It all adds up and empowering girls does not mean negating the differences between boys and girls. I also believe that many of the stereotypes are hurting boys and men and the awareness should go both ways.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: wait a minute on 06/30/2014 15:20:33 MDT Print View

"Who considers girls dumb? I know that men are more likely to go into math and science fields, but that is a preference (maybe skill). But how is that dumb? And who tells women they need to be dumb to get a guy?"

When I say dumb, I mean in math and science. Or you could call it skill if you wanted. And if it was preference, it's because the person does better or worse so prefers to go into that field.

And it's just because people in those fields tend to get paid more and it's easier finding a job. And people enjoy it as much as other fields. Not that there's anything wrong with being a social worker or an historian or whatever.

And for some reason, there aren't many women in math and science fields. Yet when I was 10, the girls were just as good. Something happened, and I assume it's cultural.

When I was growing up there were discussions about how a women has to be dumb, like losing at a game or it will intimidate the man. And discussions about how B.S. that was and women shouldn't do that.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: hmm on 06/30/2014 15:22:45 MDT Print View

"It was girls doing it to each other."

and to themselves

one of the points of that video

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: hmm on 06/30/2014 15:37:41 MDT Print View

Kat,

I didn't see much of that. Growing up all of the girls in school played sports and were in honors classes too. Actually we probably had a few more girls than guys in the honors classes. It wasn't cool for the guys to be smart. There were only a few of us that played sports and were in the honors classes on the guys side. I was the only one that did both well. ;)

I guess I got lucky. The girls in my class would rather run track and take physics. The "in" group actually weren't the cheerleaders. Then I married a woman who is better at math/science then me.

Maybe it's just me!