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The Ills Of Libertarians
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Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
The Ills Of Libertarians on 05/16/2014 08:20:11 MDT Print View

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/28/why_i_fled_libertarianism_and_became_a_liberal/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow




An interesting read about a person who overcame their illness.....

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: The Ills Of Libertarians on 05/16/2014 08:47:21 MDT Print View

Is this the kind of stuff you talk about at parties?

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: The Ills Of Libertarians on 05/16/2014 11:42:48 MDT Print View

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/16/1299795/-10-to-30-million-tea-partiers-heading-to-DC-to-overtake-entire-government?detail=facebook



surely do. Me and all of my leftist comrades discuss this at our communist party get togethers. It is very amusing making fun of the delusional Tea Party team.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: The Ills Of Libertarians on 05/16/2014 12:06:14 MDT Print View

Sounds super fun.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ills Of Libertarians on 05/16/2014 13:12:44 MDT Print View

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/16/1299795/-10-to-30-million-tea-partiers-heading-to-DC-to-overtake-entire-government?detail=facebookt

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ills Of Libertarians on 05/16/2014 14:40:56 MDT Print View

Methinks the actual turnout will be several orders of magnitude smaller than the estimate. :P

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: The Ills Of Libertarians on 05/16/2014 16:53:10 MDT Print View

That article is stupid. Like, soooo stupid.

The author feels guilty because his ideology was associated with people he didn't like. That is his pathetic argument in it's entirety. Nothing about why he thinks libertarianism is wrong, just that he met some crazy libertarians with conspiracy theories.

Edited by justin_baker on 05/16/2014 17:48:38 MDT.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: The Ills Of Libertarians on 05/16/2014 17:30:53 MDT Print View

Autistic =/= stupid. Come on, seriously.

Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear1) - F
How about stressing our similarities and our Oneness over the differences all the time? on 05/18/2014 01:16:31 MDT Print View

I think anytime a person gets over attached to a particular codified belief system, ideology, and/or group and starts to label themselves as this or that, it tends to become inherently limiting and/or separatist in nature.

I'm a (non religious) fan of Yeshua (Jesus), but there is no real need to call or think of myself as a Christian. I like/respect some other teachers as well, but for whatever reasons i'm most drawn to him, his life and example.

Liberal, conservatives, libertarians, tea party, socialist, communist, etc, etc all are just words for relative truth, relative inaccuracy, narrowing of perception and needless conformity, and again often with the tendency to facilitate separateness with other groups and individuals different than that self chooses to align with.

Someday, we will all come to know beyond a doubt (and deeply care about), that we all are truly and fully interconnected and part of a larger, One self while individual and unique at the same time. Nothing wrong with expressing that uniqueness and individuality, but when you start to see or foster separation, that's when you will experience suffering. Since i suffer some sometimes, i let self get stuck too at times, so i'm not sitting in judgment of others here, just trying to point out how the system/process works whether one likes it or not (or is aware of or believes it or not).

It's an amazing feedback process that was either built into the system, or the system evolved too, wherein specific degree of selfishness leads to specific degree of pain and suffering, and specific degree of attunement to Love and all that is creative in essence, leads to specific degrees of enjoyable states of being like joy, at peaceness, calm centeredness.

(much over simplified for the sake of brevity, because i know first hand that crappy diet, health lifestyle, body accidents, etc, etc can lead to much depression or other non enjoyable emotional/mental states through imbalancing the body, even if the person is basically an ethical, more loving or kind person in intent and essence. And in these cases, if the body imbalance can corrected, much of these non enjoyable states will be changed and often even dramatically--speaking from first hand experience).

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: How about stressing our similarities and our Oneness over the differences all the time? on 05/18/2014 07:53:52 MDT Print View

"Liberal, conservatives, libertarians, tea party, socialist, communist, etc, etc all are just words for relative truth, relative inaccuracy, narrowing of perception and needless conformity, and again often with the tendency to facilitate separateness with other groups and individuals....."

Beautifully said Justin.


My grandma used to say something like this " when you go to bed at night you should be able to think back on your day and know you did not add any more pain, fear, separation and animosity to this world".

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: How about stressing our similarities and our Oneness over the differences all the time? on 05/18/2014 08:11:10 MDT Print View

Justin, that is a perfect sentiment.

I think one of our biggest problems as a culture is that we continue to isolate ourselves. We read material that only encourages our own beliefs and denounce those that challenge them (OH! look at the source!! that's a liberal/conservative paper/blog/source!). We refuse to reflect on our own faults and the fallacies of our own opinions. We live in communities that are just like ourselves...human nature, we gravitate towards like minded groups and individuals. The problem comes in when you keep closing your mind to what's outside that circle.

One of the hardest clinical lessons to teach entry level doctoral students is that you are always trying to prove yourself WRONG. It's very, very easy to find evidence to support what you think is right - even if you are not. So take a page out of the research playbook and try to prove your idea/belief wrong.

Then you have to accept that you very well might be wrong.

It's a very difficult mindset, but one that is very important to a scientist. It's why in scientific research you try to prove what's called the Null Hypothesis - the opposite of what you think is true.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: How about stressing our similarities and our Oneness over the differences all the time? on 05/18/2014 08:47:05 MDT Print View

There is a vast gulf of discernment between authentically embracing common humanity and taking all ideologies as qualitatively equal.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: How about stressing our similarities and our Oneness over the differences all the time? on 05/18/2014 08:52:07 MDT Print View

My conspiracy theory is that politicians tend to exploit and encourage our differences

If they can get us arguing about abortion or guns or whatever, then we won't notice them passing laws that enrich themselves and their supporters

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How about stressing our similarities and our Oneness over the differences all the time? on 05/18/2014 09:11:02 MDT Print View

Jerry I agree with you - I also think part of that conspiracy is the defunding of public education at all levels. Dumb down several generations, don't let any of us learn how to think critically, then convince us that what's good for the top %0.00001 is good for the rest of us.

So far it seems to be working....

I'll never understand why anyone who doesn't make $50 million dollars a year advocates the elimination of the estate tax.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
hmm on 05/18/2014 09:19:14 MDT Print View

My theory is that some politicians want to keep some of us poor and on welfare. That way they can continue to get the votes from the welfare state and unions. If they can keep you beholden to the system, they can keep you voting for them.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: hmm on 05/18/2014 09:34:52 MDT Print View

"If they can keep you beholden to the system, they can keep you voting for them."

I agree

It's not a new idea. Machiavelli in "The Prince" in about 1500 pointed out that when you're subjugating a populace, if you give them stuff in good times, they will be more willing to go along with you in bad times, like when a neighboring prince wants to take over your people and you need them to fight back.

Social Security and Medicare are about 50% of the federal budget. Seniors will vote against anyone that wants to take it away. It's now almost impossible to end those programs. I can see pro and con to that.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
seniors on 05/18/2014 09:41:20 MDT Print View

Ugh. Don't get me started on that cohort. The property tax freezes they vote in for themselves really tick me off.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: seniors on 05/18/2014 09:52:55 MDT Print View

"The property tax freezes they vote in for themselves really tick me off."

I would have thought you would have been in favor of property tax freezes.

What's funny, is the advertisements supporting the property tax freezes, featured grandma losing her house because of property tax, but if you actually look at the numbers, it's wealthier people and businesses that are the big winners. For example, the assessed value resets to market when a property is sold, but businesses can structure "sales" so it never changes the name on the title, like have a long term lease.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
property taxes on 05/18/2014 10:36:25 MDT Print View

In Texas they would vote to lock the taxes for 65+ in a county/city. So they benefited when young and then got the benefit when old. Their kids and grand kids are responsible for the millions in shortfalls. The elderly claim a "fixed income" and that they can't afford it. Well most people are on a fixed income. As Jen has argued her parents couldn't make any more money. They weren't 65+. I hate the "fixed income" and lock our taxes the retired argued for.

If you want a property tax freeze, we can do it without the redistribution that is happening. You get the locked in rate on single family homes if it is your primary residence. Lock the basis for the taxes at the value at the time of purchase. Then include an escalator based on inflation. That way you know what you will have to pay and won't get taxed out based on skyrocketing property values.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: hmm on 05/18/2014 10:56:06 MDT Print View

Yep Michael....those damn UNIONS....what is next....full scaled Marxism?