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HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
I disagree on 04/16/2014 19:48:44 MDT Print View

The website is already reviewing framed packs, .... why not double-walled tents? Though a couple tarp-tents for thrown in comparison, like the Moment DW or Stratospire, would would have been nice.

Eric Gjonnes
(EKG) - MLife

Locale: Northwest
Re: Re: Apples and oranges on 04/16/2014 20:12:20 MDT Print View

Dave U. All good questions so I'll clarify, though this discussion was about double wall freestanding tents and not about me.
The TT Notch looks like a fine double wall tent, but still isn't freestanding like all the other tents in the review, therefore not appropriate for comparison. When I think freestanding, I think of a tent that can be securely pitched on a hard surface without the use of stakes, like the huge granite slabs on the PCT in CA or the wooden tent platforms in the White Mountains on the AT. There is over a 100 mile section of the AT that you have to use (some narrow exceptions) these wooden platforms making a UL shelter, requiring stakes, unable to be set up.
You seem to have taken my past statements on a BPL article out of context. Did you read the entire article and following comments before criticizing me? The author was comparing his heavy, mainstream, old school, internal framed pack with UL packs, therefore my comments were in context where your rude spewings here were not. Also Roger (that Author) has a tendency to bash all things American which is a button for me.
You did get me on the Tent slip up. I was wrong when I used the generic term tent to discribe the Skyscape. I consider the Skyscape to be a fine example of a light weight shelter. However, it was in context to that readers question asking how to get his big 3 under 3.5 pounds. Common sense dictates that he was asking about a UL shelter in order to keep his big 3 under 3.5 pounds. A 2 pound tent would not have worked in this equation.
I will say that to those experienced with UL equipment, the tent review's title was confusing, but to those in that niche of the tent industry, 2 pounds is ultralight. You and I of course know better.
My varied experience has shown me the value for many types of gear and that no shelter or tent is always the answer for every situation, trail, weather, or terrain. Like sleeping bag temp ratings, you have to match the tent or shelter to the conditions of your adventure. That was my original point. Sometimes your anventure calls for a 6 oz cubin fiber tarp and some times you can afford the luxury of a 2 pound freestanding double wall tent. And when that time comes we will all thank Sean and BPL for comparing the differences without muddying the waters with incomparable UL shelters.

Edited by EKG on 04/16/2014 20:29:58 MDT.

Paul Hatfield
(clear_blue_skies) - F
No objection on 04/16/2014 20:13:13 MDT Print View

I don't think people are objecting to the reviewing of double-walled tents. In fact, I really look forward to an update to the State of the Market Report: Two-Person Double-Wall Tents that was published in 2010.

Edited by clear_blue_skies on 04/16/2014 20:17:48 MDT.

Eric Gjonnes
(EKG) - MLife

Locale: Northwest
Re: Re: Apples and oranges on 04/16/2014 20:13:37 MDT Print View

Lapsley Hope- Yes, absolutely.

Edited by EKG on 04/16/2014 20:16:22 MDT.

Eric Gjonnes
(EKG) - MLife

Locale: Northwest
Re: I Guess We're All Pros!?!? on 04/16/2014 20:27:25 MDT Print View

Thanks Thomas for sharing your experience with the MH tents. That was very helpful info. I found the Fly Creek UL 2 to be a bit narrow with my 10 y/o daughter and I. I think it was less about square feet and more about the steep pitch of the roof that comes too close to the floor long before it meets the side of the tent.

Eric Gjonnes
(EKG) - MLife

Locale: Northwest
Out of context on 04/16/2014 20:52:05 MDT Print View

"You are carrying the Unaweep to carry heavy loads. Given that, I can't see 5 oz making a significant difference and would go with the higher durability."
See Dave U. I can also pull your past coments out of context to make you look like a hypocrite, but I believe that you are an intelligent man. I'm sure if I read the related article that your coment would prove to be relevant and insightful.

Glenn S
(Glenn64) - M

Locale: Snowhere, MN
Material specs only? on 04/16/2014 21:31:38 MDT Print View

Truly an article written from a design/engineering viewpoint. All about material specs, with very little in the way of actual functionality IMO. I was left knowing nothing about these tents except what they weigh, and why.

Along with maybe a few of the authors personal peeves and how he could break a 2mm line on a rock, twice. (A missed edit I hope)

Kronos Master of Fate
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Author's tent design on 04/16/2014 21:45:31 MDT Print View

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/mountain_hardware_bunker_1_orsm06.html?mb_sort=#.U09N9V5d1nF

Adam Klagsbrun
(klags) - MLife

Locale: Northeast US
Yeah certainly nothing personal on 04/16/2014 22:32:30 MDT Print View

Yeah I think its worth pointing out that I think we shouldn't be directing any anger at the author at all... its great to have input on any tents in general available on the market. But personally I feel that if BPL and the editors are going to email out an article that is "supposed to appeal to a larger segment of the market" or "address brands that are more available in the average store," they need to understand why this article misses the mark. These kinds of articles are great. The issues are very clear:

1) the small selection of products from brands that are FAR from desirable to most people on this site, even though there are plenty of options the author could have chosen from
2) the lack of proper selection and definition of categories - 1 and 2p tents in the same review, choosing free-standing tents only, which are usually completely unnecessary.
3) lack of consistency in the language - seems like the author is either confused or just choosing to use "superlight" and "ultralight" when describing tents in the "same" category
4) lack of cottage brands
5) the perspective of these reviews is from a design standpoint, for obvious reasons - what we really need is more information about how it actually feels to do things in these tents... getting in and out, zippers, space in vestibules, condensation feedback, etc etc...

I don't want to be that jerk who's like "screw this article and everything about it" but it really just feels like it doesn't belong... not because of the subject matter, but because of the lack of detail, the format, the lack of the usual rigorous specifics that set this site apart... I'd like to see the author go back and redo this article properly, with more tents, the proper comparison chart, and some manufacturers that we want to see. And I'll just say this straight up - screw sticking with "freestanding" tents. Anyone who is entirely unwilling to consider the benefits of the other options (and I'm not talking about tarps) is just not going to be a member of this site, and therefore is not the target audience for articles being posted here. Focus on weight or something else if you want to categorize, not freestanding vs not. There are too many levels in between.

Edited by klags on 04/16/2014 22:33:32 MDT.

Lukas Kull
(lukaskull) - MLife
No real review on 04/17/2014 02:34:39 MDT Print View

I was expecting more than 3 tents to be reviewed. There is much more variety, where are reviews on all the interesting tents? Hyperlite, Zpacks, ...? MID tents, tarp tents, ...? What are the differences between the different types of tents? I hope there is more on that soon.

Adam Klagsbrun
(klags) - MLife

Locale: Northeast US
Well said on 04/17/2014 10:54:41 MDT Print View

"Kind of like the way I fell after eating "the Best" french fries at McDonald's."

EXACTLY. We all know that some people like McDonald's. But we also know that you don't go serving McDonald's to people eating local, grass-fed beef burgers or veggie burgers, for that matter... same idea applies here, doesn't it?

Kevin Kingma
(kkman)
could have been more complete on 04/17/2014 11:30:51 MDT Print View

Just to round out the selection it would have been nice to see the Stansport, Eureka and Coleman UL tents in this review.

Adam Klagsbrun
(klags) - MLife

Locale: Northeast US
While we're at it... on 04/17/2014 11:46:52 MDT Print View

Why doesn't BPL crowdsource the tents for review from this discussion? Look how many brands/tents have been recommended for comparison right here...

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Re: We're a tough crowd alright. on 04/17/2014 12:03:10 MDT Print View

My Cuben fiber tent weighs 14 oz, but most can't afford it.

Yeah right. These tents cost the same as most CF Tents.'
What, do people think they are getting more for their money because it weighs 3X as much?

I'm just wondering what audience this article is trying to appeal?
It's certainly none of us at BPL.

This is like comparing the latest technically advanced bicycles and the ones selected for the article were all aluminum and steel with sub-par parts. The ones more people would buy as their first bike.

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Disclosure statement? on 04/17/2014 14:00:59 MDT Print View

Did I miss the part where where the author discloses if the tents were purchased by him, or provided free by the manufacturers?

I've come to expect this kind of statement in review articles from BPL--seems like a mark of professionalism and integrity.

If not part of the original article, perhaps such a statement could be added?

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Top Ultralight Tent Review on 04/17/2014 14:01:07 MDT Print View

Respect to the author for putting the research and time into this article.

However it should not be called the "top" ultralight tent review - yes, some of those reviewed are great shelters, but far from the "top", the cream of the crop, of the UL shelter market.

For those ragging on the author about these being heavy shelters... not really sure myself what the author is trying to present... the title says "ultralight" yet the first introduction of the article states, "a review of the best superlight tents on the market" - so what is it... ultralight tents or superlight tents?

And for those who are interested: the worlds lightest fully enclosed solo shelter comparison does exist.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
"Half done is well begun." on 04/17/2014 20:06:36 MDT Print View

I agree with Tjaard, finish this article as Will Reitvelld would do, with two more articles on the "other" lightweight tents out there and a final fourth article with good comparison tables - i.e. separate tables for 2 person tents and solo tents.

Rent a big fan and do some "windworthy" comparisons on all tents.

Include prices.

Compare floor space AND interior volume.

Compare vestibule and door setups for space and ease of use.

Even a table for "suggested improvements" for each tent.

Tom Clark
(TomClark) - MLife

Locale: East Coast
Re: Top Ultralight Tent Review on 04/19/2014 20:11:57 MDT Print View

Adam said it well...
"1) the small selection of products from brands that are FAR from desirable to most people on this site, even though there are plenty of options the author could have chosen from
2) the lack of proper selection and definition of categories - 1 and 2p tents in the same review, choosing free-standing tents only, which are usually completely unnecessary.
3) lack of consistency in the language - seems like the author is either confused or just choosing to use "superlight" and "ultralight" when describing tents in the "same" category
4) lack of cottage brands
5) the perspective of these reviews is from a design standpoint, for obvious reasons - what we really need is more information about how it actually feels to do things in these tents... getting in and out, zippers, space in vestibules, condensation feedback, etc etc..."

Also as others noted, know your audience and don't claim the best tents unless you can back it up. It really sounds like a Backpacker blurb.

Really my biggest complaint was that it was written from a design perspective, not a performance perspective...think about that long and hard.

Tom

Wayne Norman
(wknorman) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Question about the dimensions in the review on 04/22/2014 14:09:44 MDT Print View

I know this is a late comment, but...I can't reconcile the dimensions given in the review with the advertised specs. The SuperMegaUL 1 is spec'd smaller in length, width, and height than the Obi Elite 1P. Here's the specs for the two tents:

http://www.nemoequipment.com/product/?p=Obi+Elite+1P

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/supermegaul-1-OU9649.html

The Obi Elite is larger in each dimension. Am I missing something? Having a table with measurements would have been very helpful.

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
Comments on "Top Ultralight Tent Review" on 04/22/2014 15:33:02 MDT Print View

Hello All,

First, thank you for taking the time to comment on the quality of this article.

In spite of a lot of heavy handed criticism, I am appreciative that some of you found at least a little bit of redeeming information provided by the author.

The breakdown in the system regarding the article's publication was with me. I did not have a chance to sufficiently review the article prior to its publication, which allowed both the article title, and some of its editorial content (a description of criteria, and what constituted the author's definition of "top ultralight tents" without considering what many of us here consider as "top ultralight tents), and styling (e.g., lack of a comparison table, verified weights, etc.). I apologize to you for not delivering the quality you expected in a review summary like this, and for not editing the headline appropriately.

That this article did not come from an established and active member of the BPL community - I'm ok with that. I'd like to open authorship up to anyone who wants to give it a shot. I'm appreciative of those of you who were sensitive to the fact that this was a first time author, and that he wasn't a member of our community, and were able to offer helpful feedback to him in a way that wasn't disparaging or discouraging.

As a result of this article and the feedback you gave, I am working with our Production Editor to tighten up our editorial review process, with my involvement occurring earlier in the process, in order to help authors be more successful here and help preserve high standards in the quality of our content.

Ryan