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Bundy......A True American Hero?
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Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: wow on 05/01/2014 20:18:40 MDT Print View

5.......What happened to the promised transparency?


This has been the least transparent administration on record. Also, the worst as far as freedom of the press.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/10/obama-press-freedom-cpj_n_4073037.html


http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/3/27/barack_obama_the_least_transparent_president

Edited by Kat_P on 05/01/2014 20:34:30 MDT.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Bundy......A True American Hero? on 05/01/2014 21:46:42 MDT Print View

I don't care what all of you think of him, Bundy is still my hero
A. Bundy

Scott Jones
(Endeavor) - M
Bundy "The High Plains Moocher" on 05/01/2014 22:04:56 MDT Print View

Paul Krugman puts the final nail in the mythical idea this jackass Cliven Bundy is a hero.

High Plains Moocher

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: wow on 05/01/2014 22:12:02 MDT Print View

"Kiss my ass Jerry. It is only YOUR generation that considers that racist."

I've never spent much time where there was a lot of racism, but I've seen documentaries where white people called blacks, "boys", because they dared to look at a white women, or went into a whites only establishment. Lynched the black "boys". The police and judges were party to it. Maybe that was all fiction.

I'm just incredulous that anyone would call a black man a boy

And even more incredulous that someone would say "a left win extremist got all puffed up at the chance to scream racist"

I think we've taken that as far as we can


Looking at "2012 Benghazi Attack" in wikipedia, not always a perfect source but usually fairly objective. They have sources for all there statements:

"In Egypt, 2000 Salafist activists protested against the film Innocence of Muslims at 5pm EET (11am EDT) at the US embassy in Cairo.[41]"

This was just before Benghazi - so reasonable to think Behghazi was more of the same


"The attackers stated they were acting in response to the movie.[57]"

So even if the attack wasn't primarily because of that movie, there were news reports that it was.


The attack started at 9:40PM. At about 10PM "The Regional Security Office sounded the alarm and placed calls to the Benghazi CIA annex and the embassy in Tripoli, saying, "We're under attack, we need help, please send help now..." " At about the same time, the ambassador called someone.

A CIA team attempted a rescue but discovered people were dead. Unclear whether they actually saw the ambassador's body. Got back to their annex at 11:50PM. That was almost 2 hours after the attack was reported.

The CIA team was already in Benghazi. Any other group would have taken much longer.

And saying that Obama instructed any rescuer to abort is untrue, because a CIA team did attempt a rescue. I guess Obama didn't get to them : )


Any blame has to be for not having more security, having U.S. people there at all, getting envolved in Lybia civil war,...

As with all of these incidents, we should figure out how to avoid in the future, not find someone to lynch just to feel better. And especially not take advantage to politically attack your opponent. That is disrespectful to the people that have sacrificed.


You just can't let loose of the idea that Obama is responsible for this. No facts will change your mind. It's called "cognitive dissonance".


I think the Republicans that keep screaming about this know it's total B.S., just a strategy for "getting" Obama and the Democrats.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Plenty to blame. on 05/01/2014 22:17:14 MDT Print View

Well said Kat.

I hope the Ukraine cools down after a while and doesn't turn into a "cold war"

Maybe it would help if we acknowledged the Russians have some legitimate gripes. Maybe we can reach some compromise.

Call me "Polyanna"

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Re: Re: wow on 05/01/2014 23:11:47 MDT Print View

I called your Democrat "your boy" Jerry. Race is immaterial. I have a liberal friend up here. I routinely refer to local democrats as "his boy" or "his girl". You are looking to get offended for nothing. Race Baiter.

Wiki is hardly unbiased.

I can't believe you are still arguing that it was the video. The military command over Africa has says it isn't. They dismissed suggestions at the time they arose. You are so blinded it isn't even funny anymore.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: wow on 05/02/2014 07:21:39 MDT Print View

I don't call any adults, boys, because of the historical context of treatment of black people, sort of like not using the "N" word.

Occasionally, I'll tell someone "kiss my ass", but it has to be in person with someone who knows I'm just kidding. On the internets, it's too easy to misinterpret even innocuous words.

You just state things without any sources. Or, when you do give sources, the source usually says just the opposite or has information supporting both sides, you just pull out what you want to justify your screwed up opinion.

I suspect in person we'de get along just fine. Some conflicting ideas but we could civily agree to disagree. I think we're both hard working people that want the best for everyone.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
here on 05/02/2014 09:40:30 MDT Print View

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/05/01/benghazi-testimony-africom-general/8554559/

Right there Jerry. Not a reaction to the video. Nobody would have ever considered it a reaction to videos if the Obama administration hadn't gone out of their way to paint it as such.

"Blue, you're my boy!"

Jerry, I have never in my life seen a person call somebody a "boy" in a racist way. Sorry, I just don't consider it as such. Before I was born - sure. But in the context the way I used it, it is very clear I'm referring to the guy you support.

I was quite serious in the kiss my ass comment. If you are going to suggest racist motivations behind my comments, you can do just that.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: here on 05/02/2014 10:05:11 MDT Print View

I didn't say you were racist. I think if you did a survey of readers, many people would think that calling a black man "boy" was racist. You can have your meaning of the word and do whatever you wish.


Good source of information

One thing it said was:

"Lovell did not question the Pentagon claim that it could not have scrambled forces in the region quickly enough to have prevented the deaths of the Americans. Lovell said no one at the time of the attack knew how long it would go, so they could not have determined then that there was no use in trying."

That sort of makes your point

Then it goes on to say:

""I did not say we did not try," Lovell said. "What I'm speaking to is that we as a nation need to try to do more, in preparations, so that in the future ... we can support the people and have their backs.""

So, he contradicts what he said previously, that we didn't try. And he makes my point that what we should get out of Benghazi is to learn lessons for the future.

And it makes my point that you pick out "factoids" that confirm your opinion and you ignore others.

I don't see how you can come out of the Benghazi with the idea that Obama should be blamed for it. There have been other, similar incidents in other presidencies and there's plenty of blame to go around for Benghazi.

The Republicans know this but just think this is an opportunity to politically attack Obama which is disrespectful to Ambasador Stevens and other patriotic citizens in other posts.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: here on 05/02/2014 10:07:28 MDT Print View

Race bait.....lol if the shoe fits then.....

The present day Republican party has a lot to answer for. The party of the white and wealthy.

Kat and others....hope much do you know about foreign diplomacy? Arm chair quarterback is what I see here. How in the hell did Obama start a cold war??? Lol

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: here on 05/02/2014 10:24:15 MDT Print View

"Damnant quod non intelligunt" was descriptive, not prescriptive.

Edited by Kat_P on 05/02/2014 13:07:12 MDT.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: here on 05/02/2014 10:32:17 MDT Print View

"Go ahead and call black men boys. I guess our generation will have to die off before we go one level closer to accepting all people."

Sure you didn't suggest that just a bit there Jerry?

For the last time. I wasn't calling a black man a boy. I was calling the guy you are supporting "your boy". I really don't care a single bit about his race. Never have.

I linked you an article that shows beyond a doubt that the video you keep blaming was dismissed at the highest levels of the African command.

The possible responses and actions that could have been taken have been covered ad nauseum before. You just refuse to believe them.

I don't blame Obama for Benghazi happening. Not all terrorist attacks are preventable. I do see it as a sign that his claimed war on terrorism wasn't going as well as he portrayed. I blame him for the coverup and deflecting attention to a stupid video to keep his image.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: here on 05/02/2014 10:52:44 MDT Print View

"For the last time. I wasn't calling a black man a boy. I was calling the guy you are supporting "your boy". "

You said "your boy". Obama is a black man. Many people would consider that racist. I think us white guys should not use the term "boy" for a black man. No point dragging this out any further...


What's ironic is that you're accusing me of "playing the race card". I'm accusing you of "playing the you're accusing me of being a racist card" : )


"I linked you an article that shows beyond a doubt that the video you keep blaming was dismissed at the highest levels of the African command."

The article said that General Lovell had the opinion that the attack was not because of the video.

There were demonstrations in Egypt because of the video. There were Benghazi attackers that said the attack was because of the video. There were news stories reporting this.

Obama has to consider all sources and make a decision what to do at each moment.

Since there were demonstrations in Egypt because of the video, and possible escalating violence, it was important for Obama to condem the video to reduce possible escalating violence even if he knew Benghazi was not because of the video.

Obama didn't cover anything up, he's answered questions about this all along and has been fairly consistent.

I think the lesson to learn is what Lovell said "What I'm speaking to is that we as a nation need to try to do more, in preparations, so that in the future ... we can support the people and have their backs."

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: here on 05/02/2014 13:00:22 MDT Print View

This is looking less and less like a political discussion and more and more like a four-way abusive relationship.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: here on 05/02/2014 13:01:56 MDT Print View

Four way?

There's Michael and I which makes two...

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
well on 05/02/2014 13:07:03 MDT Print View

I have 3 personalities. So if you can kick in at least some personality, then we can round up to 4. :)

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: here on 05/02/2014 13:09:18 MDT Print View

"This is looking less and less like a political discussion and more and more like a four-way abusive relationship."

There was no interest in a discussion Craig.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: here on 05/02/2014 13:29:21 MDT Print View

"There was no interest in a discussion Craig."

There's nothing to discuss. Investigating Obama over Benghazi is just political.

You're not arguing there's anything to discuss calling black men boys are you? : )

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: here on 05/02/2014 13:40:27 MDT Print View

""There was no interest in a discussion Craig."

There's nothing to discuss. Investigating Obama over Benghazi is just political.

You're not arguing there's anything to discuss calling black men boys are you? : )"




I think anything should and could be discussed. Craig seems to be right in that this just does not seem the right place. I think it has more to do with honesty and intentions then the format. To me nothing is beyond discussion if people want to understand ; we all want to be understood but not enough want to really understand other people.
How can we blame politicians and world leaders if we are not even able to conduct a discussion here? Jerry, you could get your point across about the "boys" without accusing anyone here of ill intent or at the very least give Michael the benefit of the doubt. You keep saying not to keep that subject going....as long as you get the last word in. I can relate to that too..., no worries.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: here on 05/02/2014 14:25:08 MDT Print View

yes, I do like to get the last word in. And I admit to being a know it all.

I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss, just there's no point saying the same thing over and over. Another one of my faults : )

Actually, if I thought anything, it's that's Micheal is playing a little game. Saying something that can be interpretted as racist. If anyone says anything, then he can say they're playing the race card. No big deal. I've said my peace so I don't need to talk about it any more. Unless someone provokes me : )

I just get frustrated at these memes that get spread around, like about Benghazi and Obama. If they keep bringing it up, people might start believing it. Do you think this is a conspiracy worth investigating?

I kind of lean towards your claims that Obama is secretive and not transparent.