Forum Index » Chaff » Bundy......A True American Hero?


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Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
ok on 04/24/2014 14:46:46 MDT Print View

I'll take you off the list then.

David Olsen
(bivysack.com) - F

Locale: Channeled Scablands
bundy liar? on 04/24/2014 14:47:18 MDT Print View

"I’ve lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements,” Bundy said.

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy’s parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn’t start grazing on that land until 1954."

http://www.newshounds.us/cliven_bundy_lied_about_his_family_s_ancestral_rights_and_fox_news_let_him_04222014

. Kirby
(Kirby805) - F
Re: ok on 04/24/2014 14:50:39 MDT Print View

whew

spelt !
(spelt) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: bundy liar? on 04/24/2014 15:57:42 MDT Print View

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

Scott Jones
(Endeavor) - M
Bundy was born ignorant and has been losing ground ever since. on 04/24/2014 22:45:49 MDT Print View

Typical hypocrite Mormon who doesn't pay his taxes like honest people do. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, (The Mormons) claim to belief in 14 Articles of Faith. In fact, on their official website www.mormon.org they post these 14 beliefs or articles of faith as they call them. The 12th article states, "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Now this ignorant Bundy guy thinks he is above the law and doesn't have to pay his tax, I think that makes him a thief, a liar, and nowhere near a hero.

He is also a racist where today he quoted and repeated himself again that "blacks were happier and better off during the slavery era" The guy is completely out of touch with reality, the law, and should be jailed.

As for the right wing maniacs who went down there with high hopes of murdering a federal officer because they watched "Red Dawn" about twenty times to often I suggest they do some soul searching about what they claim to be defending or protecting. In this case it appears to be a racist hypocrite Mormon who is a tax dodger. Oh well, just more proof that God does not have a quality control program.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Bundy was born ignorant and has been losing ground ever since. on 04/25/2014 07:46:07 MDT Print View

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/25/republicans-are-racists-no-it-s-just-all-a-big-coincidence.html

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Bundy was born ignorant and has been losing ground ever since. on 04/25/2014 09:54:18 MDT Print View

Republicans aren't racists, but the politicians make subtle statements that make racists think they're "one of them" to get racists to vote for them.

Like if someone asks if Obama was born in Kenya, they don't usually say "no that's ridiculous", they say "you have a good point". Except McCain, but he lost, so that just teaches otyher Republican politicians not to do that.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Re: Bundy was born ignorant and has been losing ground ever since. on 04/25/2014 10:22:21 MDT Print View

the article almost had a feel of parody. And no, not all GOP members are racist. I hope that racism is on the decline. But over the last 6 or so years I somehow see it still out there and as ugly as ever.

I am sorry, but a meme of Obama that makes him look like he just stepped out of Africa is racist and is used to stoke the fear in those that are ignorant

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Bundy was born ignorant and has been losing ground ever since. on 04/25/2014 10:30:36 MDT Print View

It's unavoidable for Obama to say things that critics will say "is playing the race card" so he shouldn't worry about it

And same thing vice versa for Republicans


Bundy is sure enjoying all this attention. Finally, someone is listening to all his crazy talk : )

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
It's high time for some updated memes around here! on 04/25/2014 19:16:59 MDT Print View

1

“They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton," Bundy said. "And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

Edited by xnomanx on 04/25/2014 19:19:24 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: It's high time for some updated memes around here! on 04/25/2014 20:23:12 MDT Print View

Aw c'mon, Craig. Them's The Guardians of the Republic you're dissin'. Show a little respect for those guys. They're all that's standing between us freedom lovin' 'Mericans and the Fascists in Washington and Godless Kommies in Russia.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: It's high time for some updated memes around here! on 04/25/2014 20:44:16 MDT Print View

In all fairness, the Oath Keepers did say that they reject this statement and the values expressed in it. I find it deeply troubling that people wouldn't distance themselves as far as possible as quickly as possible from a human that thinks like that.
How they want to proceed, with this being all about Bundy and yet not about Bundy at all is going to be an interesting tightrope walk to see them navigate. I'll certainly leave the sad apologist arguments for someone else to make.

The whole affair is just flat out bizarre, the sort of thing that leaves me wondering if I should be laughing or crying. It seems we have so many people shouting in echo chambers that nobody can tell up from down anymore.

I give up.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: It's high time for some updated memes around here! on 04/25/2014 21:04:24 MDT Print View

In fairness to supporters, the racist statements have been public only recently.

Although other groups that advocate the federal government shouldn't have anything but minimal power also have racist ideas, like the John Birch Society.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Who's the REAL racist here.....? on 04/26/2014 02:57:12 MDT Print View

"Matthew said he would go down there with his gun so your comment would be applicable to him "

I never said that, Jerry. Not once. In all honesty, though, I would gladly have gone there to help if he had been closer than 1000 miles away.

As for the racist angle the media and liberals have jumped on in this story, it seems to me Bundy is trying to draw an analogy to being on government assistance and the fact that it is just like slavery to some. They are dependent on it. It's a form of indentured servitude. I also agree with that.
Is Bundy a racist or were some of his comments taken out of context or twisted around? Let's ask his bodyguard (an Oathkeeper) like CNN did (yeah, Ken, they were race baiting just like you keep trying to do here. Maybe you should apply there?), who just happens to have a very dark complexion...

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCto_bGIT2o

bg

Text:
CNN REPORTER: You’re protecting this man and he’s wondering whether African-Americans would be better off as slaves. How does that strike you?

JASON BULLOCK, BODYGUARD FOR CLIVEN BUNDY: It doesn’t strike me any kind of way. This is still the same old Mr. Bundy I met from the first day of all this happening.

CNN REPORTER: But aren’t those offensive comments to you

BULLOCK: Not at all.

CNN REPORTER: Not offensive?

BULLOCK: Because Mr. Bundy is not a racist. Ever since I’ve been here he’s treated me with nothing but hospitality. He’s pretty much treated me like his own family. …

BULLOCK: I would take a bullet for that man, if need be. I look up to him just like I do my own grandfather.

CNN REPORTER: Why?

BULLOCK: Because I believe in his cause and after having met Mr. Bundy a few times, I have a really good feel about him and I’m a pretty good judge of character.


How about we ask the retired Marine, and Iraq war veteran, who was there helping protect him,who wrote an open letter defending Mr. Bundy after the media got ahold of the "racist" (or just true?) statements. This former Marine also might be a "person of color":

mb

Open letter from former Marine:
"The media distorts information to the point of social division. This is a photo of myself and the resilient, often charismatic, and maybe not so tactful Cliven Bundy. He’s a cowboy and a helluva family man, not an orator.
One thing he definitely isn’t – a racist. I found his comments to not only be NOT racist, but his own view of his experiences. Who the heck are we to determine another man’s perspective on the world around him?! Just because Picasso’s view of the world was abstract, does it negate the fact that his art was genuine?
Furthermore, if you take the time to do your own research, you’ll find that his statements about some black Americans actually hold weight. He posed a hypothetical question. He said, “I wonder IF” … Hell, I’m black and I often wonder about the same about the decline of the black family.
Bottom line is that we are all slaves in this waning republic, no matter our skin color. Mr. Bundy could have used any racial demographic as an example: Native Americans on reservations, whites in trailer parks, etc. He noticed the crippling effects of receiving government “assistance” and the long term result of accepting handouts.
It’s not progress at all. I challenge Sean Hannity, Rand Paul, and others to read my comment and reconsider their position in this matter. Individual liberties are at stake here, yours and mine. THAT is the issue.
Don’t let the liberal media and ignoramuses like Glenn Beck and that weasel Harry Reid make you lose sight of the real issue here: The federal government is a burgeoning behemoth and a bully on a once constitutional playground.I sincerely hope you real patriots out there who can see through the smoke.
Semper Fidelis"


Basically, the only people bringing up race are the Liberals (Ken's always the first here to do it) who are trying very hard to keep their modern day plantations stocked with low information minority voters. Where is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson when it comes to the fact that 78% of Planned Parenthood's are purposely placed in minority (black and latino) inner city neighborhoods? Did you know that the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, was a devout racist (FOR REAL!) who created the Negro Project designed to sterilize unknowing black women and others she deemed as undesirables of society? The founder of Planned Parenthood said, "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated." Is her vision being fulfilled today? Why does no one say anything about that? Where's the media outrage? There is ethnic genocide going on right in our very own country and they don't care...why? Because they are lying to and using the very people they are supposedly trying to help and have gotten very rich in the process. Any person of color who disagrees is immediately branded an "Uncle Tom", when in reality, it is the Sharptons and Jacksons who have sold out and should be called out as the REAL Uncle Toms.

Another thing we need to remember is that it's an old cowboy today, but it might be YOU or me tomorrow. Would you feel differently then? The Oathkeepers would not. They do not care what political party you belong to. Just like the military. They would be there for you and would lay down their lives to protect you and your God given rights (they were given by God, and only affirmed by our Constitution and Bill Of Rights. The government CANNOT take them away).

Edited by bigfoot2 on 04/26/2014 03:41:49 MDT.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Mormons on 04/26/2014 03:25:41 MDT Print View

"Typical hypocrite Mormon who doesn't pay his taxes like honest people do. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, (The Mormons) claim to belief in 14 Articles of Faith. In fact, on their official website www.mormon.org they post these 14 beliefs or articles of faith as they call them. The 12th article states, "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Now this ignorant Bundy guy thinks he is above the law and doesn't have to pay his tax, I think that makes him a thief, a liar, and nowhere near a hero.

He is also a racist "

Scott, by your statements above it's clear that you hate Mormons. It's also clear that it's YOU who is the hypocrite racist here. I, personally, think that Mormonism is a cult. I also believe that there should be freedom from religious persecution from people like you and that people should be free to worship, or not, whatever way they want. So did the founders. That's why it's #1 on the constitutional amendment list, buddy. You should try reading it sometime.

Edited by bigfoot2 on 04/26/2014 03:33:23 MDT.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
Just an idiot on 04/26/2014 07:04:09 MDT Print View

Bundy's rant didn't strike me as racist by how I typically think of it, only extremely stupid. African Americans were better off as slaves because they could grow turnips with their families. Really?? First of all, most states had laws against slaves growing their own food. Plus, all that sounds nice except that the child mortality rate for slaves was nearly 70%, and the women often faced a constant threat of sexual abuse. Oh yeah, and they might just sell one of your children tomorrow. Sorry about that. Sounds like a great time that people are jumping to get back to.

If someone is thinking that African Americans were better off as slaves, they're an idiot, probably not a slow speaking cowboy racist. Although the two aren't mutually exclusive. It literally blows my mind that people defend this guy.

Ryan

Edited by ViolentGreen on 04/26/2014 07:16:52 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Who's the REAL racist here.....? on 04/26/2014 09:44:27 MDT Print View

"Matthew said he would go down there with his gun so your comment would be applicable to him "

I never said that, Jerry. Not once. In all honesty, though, I would gladly have gone there to help if he had been closer than 1000 miles away.


There! You said it again! "I would gladly have gone there to help..."


And sorry, there's no defending his comments. The only thing you can say is they're racist idiotic comments and then don't say anything for a while.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: It's high time for some updated memes around here! on 04/26/2014 09:54:21 MDT Print View

Or a link:

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2013/03/26/25-examples-of-liberal-racism-in-quotes-n1549044/page/full

This crap goes both ways.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Mormons on 04/26/2014 10:04:13 MDT Print View

"It's also clear that it's YOU who is the hypocrite racist here. I, personally, think that Mormonism is a cult."

Another two, adjacent, self inconsistent sentances : )

The LDS and Catholic churches are both good and bad.

Most Mormons are just normal, hard working, married to one person of opposite sex people. At least the ones I've worked with.

I don't feel right about thinking that someone that has a different religion than me should change. If it works for them, great. If I, hypothetically, changed their mind to believe what I believe, who knows what the unintended consequences would be.

Interesting that established Christian religious people feel so threatened by a new Christian religion.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Mormons on 04/26/2014 10:22:50 MDT Print View

That's because Christians don't consider Mormons Christian. They use the Book of Mormon. Adding to the bible kind of kicks them out of the club.

That said I don't consider them a cult. I consider them another religion. Just like Islam.