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wow moment (pack cover)
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victor larivee
(vlarivee) - MLife

Locale: white mountains
WOW moment (pack cover) on 04/05/2014 10:09:21 MDT Print View

Living in New Hampshire you never know what kind of weather you will encounter on the trail so I have been relying on my trusty granite gear syl pack cover. I know it wasn't ultralight but it was a lot lighter than my previous REI pack cover. I got comfortable using it and it always made it in my pack. I have tried a waterproof pack liner but it made a lot of crinkly noise the first time I tried it and it drove me crazy.

I am planning my next trip and hope to use my new cuben zero, taped and sealed. Checking out my list of weights, my pack cover weighed in at 120g and my new pack is 260g. So they way I see it I about doubled the weight of my waterproofing and eliminated my pack weight all together. WOW!!

Edited by vlarivee on 04/05/2014 10:12:05 MDT.

Derek M.
(dmusashe) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: WOW moment (pack cover) on 04/05/2014 15:01:38 MDT Print View

Edit: I've redacted this post since I misread the OP's initial post, thinking it dealt with the issue of pack covers versus pack liners, when in fact he is referring to using a waterproof pack instead.

Edited by dmusashe on 04/05/2014 15:47:06 MDT.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Adding post to: "wow moment (pack cover) on 04/05/2014 15:24:02 MDT Print View

Derek,
you may want to read again the OP. slowly this time.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Waterproof on 04/05/2014 15:27:17 MDT Print View

Waterproof packs are the way to go. None of this sorta waterproof ephemeral PU coating stuff, but an honestly waterproof fabric like hybrid cuben or the dimension polyant materials. I wish all packs were waterproof.

Derek M.
(dmusashe) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
My mistake on 04/05/2014 15:42:01 MDT Print View

Oh yeah, my bad. I see my mistake...

He is using a fully seam-sealed pack now. I have no experience with those, so I can't comment.

Time to redact!

Edited by dmusashe on 04/05/2014 15:44:31 MDT.

Jon Leibowitz
(jleeb) - F - MLife

Locale: 4Corners
The only option for me on 04/06/2014 08:15:56 MDT Print View

I bought an HMG pack a couple of years ago and will never purchase another pack that isn't waterproof. Granted, HMGS are not that light, but they are comfortable, durable, and waterproof. I use a pack liner for insurance. No stuff sacks, down gear, never had a problem.

Nathan Watts
(7sport) - MLife
Re: The only option for me on 04/06/2014 18:45:05 MDT Print View

I found that I would end up with water in my HMG. Perhaps a defect, but a word of warning nonetheless.

And I'd recommend waterproof sacks for sleeping bag and clothes even with waterproof packs. Opening packs in the rain or putting wet gear or wet food bags etc back in the pack means you will collect moisture in there.

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Maybe a stupid question... on 04/06/2014 19:16:27 MDT Print View

...But if you use a waterproof pack liner with a theoretically waterproof pack, what's the point of having a waterproof pack?

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Maybe a stupid question... on 04/06/2014 19:25:12 MDT Print View

To prevent pack itself from absorbing water, which could make the pack 10 oz heavier??

I don't know...just a guess. I wondered that myself. I have a pack made from xpac that is waterproof to 200 psi...but I still use a liner for my down stuff.

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Re: Maybe a stupid question... on 04/06/2014 19:39:21 MDT Print View

I also have a pack made from xpac (with 70D silnylon for extension collar and sides). The surface fabric of the xpac absolutely absorbs water (although not a lot)--so "waterproof" doesn't help with that.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Maybe a stupid question... on 04/06/2014 19:51:11 MDT Print View

10 ounces of water seems like quite a bit. A pack cover won't keep the padding dry, which is where most of the water is absorbed if it is 3D mesh. I don't think it is worth it.

You should be walking fast enough to dry it anyway :)

Glenn S
(Glenn64) - M

Locale: Snowhere, MN
Re: Maybe a stupid question... on 04/06/2014 20:08:21 MDT Print View

"...But if you use a waterproof pack liner..."

Not much in the way of pack absorption prevention...

Jon Leibowitz
(jleeb) - F - MLife

Locale: 4Corners
Re: Maybe a stupid question... on 04/06/2014 21:24:10 MDT Print View

"...But if you use a waterproof pack liner with a theoretically waterproof pack, what's the point of having a waterproof pack?"

Insurance on long wet trips for down garments. It allows me to open my pack in the rain if I have to get my ditty bag or food without getting my sleeping bag wet, as just one example.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Maybe a stupid question... on 04/06/2014 21:36:53 MDT Print View

Pack liners are very helpful when you have wet gear in your pack along with the dry stuff. That and things like maple syrup and down bags never have been a good mix :)

Richard Reno
(scubahhh)

Locale: White Mountains, mostly.
Thank you, Dale! on 04/07/2014 03:21:06 MDT Print View

On behalf of about 3/4 of the residents of Vermont, thanks for promoting the use of maple syrup in ultralight backpacking. Two great assets you forgot to mention: maple syrup poured over your pack and sleeping bag will make them much less water-absorbent; and will virtually ensure that those pesky bears totally ignore your food bag hanging in a nearby (sugar maple) tree ;-)

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Maybe a stupid question... on 04/07/2014 04:50:48 MDT Print View

> But if you use a waterproof pack liner with a theoretically waterproof pack, what's
> the point of having a waterproof pack?

It's called the difference between theory and practice.
Two lines of defence.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 04/07/2014 04:51:21 MDT.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Thank you, Dale! on 04/07/2014 08:02:59 MDT Print View

Maple syrup is just my symbolic reference to any leaking sticky stuff loose in your luggage.

A waterproof pack may be needed for pack rafting or canyoneering, but putting your wet muddy stuff inside one will pretty much guarantee that everything will be wet and muddy.

I have yet to see a truly waterproof pack that wasn't like wearing a rubber log with shoulder straps.

Your camera gear and insulation still need protection and I don't care if my tent and cook pot get wet.

If you are worried about your pack weight going up due to rain, wear a poncho and get UL rain shell and pack cover all in one. At some point, you are just going to be outdoors!

Daryl and Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
contrasting View on 04/07/2014 09:04:01 MDT Print View

No right or wrong answers here but, for comparison, my strategy is a bit different.

I make my packs out of uncoated nylon. Water runs through the fabric easily and the fabric dries quickly when the rain and sweating stop. I don't use a pack cover.

Things that need to stay dry go into a nylon stuff sack put inside a tightly closed durable plastic bag (e.g. a trash compactor bag) and carried inside the pack. I'm pretty sure my dry stuff could survive a dunking in the lake without getting wet.

I test and change the durable plastic bag as needed so I know I'm starting each trip with a reliably waterproof membrane.