Argon silnylon
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David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Re: "Argon silnylon" on 04/08/2014 20:07:57 MDT Print View

The Argon silnylon appears to be completely impregnated with silicone--will the coating wear off, short of wearing a hole in the fabric?

Since Dutchware carries Argon 90 (uncoated) I assume that is the base fabric for the Argon silnylon. So that would 0.16 oz coating/sy. Glad to see Richard Nisely has confirmed the HH, at least for unaged material.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Dutchware Gear silnylon on 04/08/2014 21:09:38 MDT Print View

Dutchware sent me 4 samples of the Argon silnylon. It is much thinner than the 30 denier silnylon sold by Thru-Hiker. Since durability and resistance to abrasion and penetration are important for a floor, my choice for a floor would still be the T-H material, or possibly the high HH 30 denier silnylon used by Lightheart Gear, which I have used for a floor that is expected to receive a lot of use this spring and summer.

Not yet having completed a Suter type HH tester, I've found one indicator of water resistance to be how readily a silnylon 'wets out,' or becomes saturated. The camo sample wetted out, or became totally saturated, almost immediately; however the other colors did not.

The other colors were shiny on one side, and flat on the other, suggesting to me that the silcoat might be limited to one side.

I'd also note well that Richard did not follow up with further tests or aging. A couple years ago, Roger Caffin agreed to HH test some PU coated paraglider ripstop nylon for me. It weighed around .9 oz/sq/yd, and was closer to Cuben than silnylon in texture and elasticity. His first test was above 1500mm, but he went back to the tester later, and found that the water resistance had dropped to well under 1000mm. Coincidentally, I had been testing the material in rainstorms for a couple weeks, and it did great until when after a storm, it was found totally saturated. I immediately sent Roger an email to forget about the test, but his test results crossed in cyberspace with my email. So, I would not put too much reliance in one isolated test.

The moral of the story may be to prepare to be disappointed, and perhaps also not to invest too much time and effort in a project before being pretty sure of the reliability of the materials.

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Dutchware Gear silnylon on 04/08/2014 21:34:23 MDT Print View

I'm sure your caution is justified, Samuel.

I just tried your "wet out" test with a piece of the red Argon I bought, and also with a piece of 30D silnylon (2nds from DIYGearSupply--so not TH quality). Neither sample absorbed any water. Now that you mention it, I do notice a subtle difference in the two sides of the red Argon silnylon, but I wouldn't say it's as obvious as flat and shiny (nothing like some 70D silnylon I have, which is obviously coated on one side).

Assuming one side is more coated than the other, which side would you recommend facing out for a shelter or poncho application?

Edited by DavidDrake on 04/08/2014 21:48:10 MDT.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Re: "Argon silnylon" on 04/13/2014 21:09:24 MDT Print View

Just finished my shelter.
I thought it would weigh 10-12 ounces but because I am not using any tape it's even lighter than my polycro one.

Love this stuff.ji

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Argon silnylon - Detailed Analysis Report on 04/14/2014 19:08:34 MDT Print View

I was in a hurry the first time I tested Argon silnylon and only tested a single spot one time. Today I took the time to analyze the fabric according to the standard's protocol; I am now less than enthusiastic.

It appears that it is Argon 90 (351 mm HH) with a light silicone based coating increasing the HH to an average of only 703 mm HH & 1.11 oz/yd2.


Argon 67 @ 20 mm Field of View
1


Argon 90 @ 20 mm Field of View
2


Argon Silnylon @ 20 mm Field of View
3


The average thickness for Argon 90 is .057 mm; the coating added to create Argon silnylon is only .002 mm; and the average total thickness for Argon Silnylon is .059 mm.

Edited by richard295 on 04/15/2014 11:39:10 MDT.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Argon silnylon - Detailed Analysis Report on 04/14/2014 21:28:46 MDT Print View

I'm digging it.

Well see how it does in the real world.
Thanks...gb

1hy

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Argon silnylon - Detailed Analysis Report on 04/15/2014 03:51:26 MDT Print View

Thanks, Richard!

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: Argon silnylon - Detailed Analysis Report on 04/15/2014 04:13:11 MDT Print View

That's scarily disappointing, though its so cheap that I can see some applications for it myself.

David Olsen
(bivysack.com) - F

Locale: Channeled Scablands
Steep Pitch on 04/15/2014 05:29:39 MDT Print View

I'll bet it would work great on shelters with a steep pitch, vertical doors, umbrellas, vestibules, etc. I wonder if there is any breathability that would allow it to work for bivysack tops etc?

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: Steep Pitch on 04/15/2014 05:30:47 MDT Print View

+1

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Argon silnylon - Detailed Analysis Report on 04/15/2014 11:09:49 MDT Print View

Once my fabric arrived, I had suspicions that it was the 20d nylon and not 10d. Oh well. May wait a while on making that big square tarp I was planning. Hopefully the field reports start coming in soon.

Ryan

Edited by ViolentGreen on 04/15/2014 11:11:49 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Argon silnylon - Detailed Analysis Report on 04/15/2014 11:13:10 MDT Print View

It may work fine if you don't touch the inside, in which case fluid will wick through

Set up your fabric outside. Have an area underneath it with something you can tell if it gets wet. Wait for hard rain. See how well it works.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
which side out on 04/15/2014 20:53:27 MDT Print View

"Assuming one side is more coated than the other, which side would you recommend facing out for a shelter or poncho application?"

For a shelter, I would put the more water resistant side facing out, because nylon by itself is quite absorbent and will sag like the dickens and even leak when enough moisture passes through the coating and permeates the fabric. But of course, that makes the inner more vulnerable to absorbing condensation.

But maybe it's a choice that doesn't have to be made. The best silnylons, like that sold be Thru-Hiker, appear to be permeated with silicone and equally water resistant on both sides. (Sorry if my constant references sound like a promoter for T-H, which you might suspect as we both have resided in NH. But it's not so, and we've never even met, although Paul did send me a free swatch of the silnylon currently being sold when he first began selling it, which was unsolicited and a nice gesture.)

I've found that the higher HH silnylons sag substantially less, and theorize that is because they can absorb less moisture. The Terra-Nova stuff mentioned in my earlier post is the best I've seen in sub 1.2 oz sils, but you know I had to be crazy to pay a hundred bucks for a tarp just to get around 40 sq. ft. of it. This tent insanity is freely admitted, and the T-N fabric is very probably going to go into a sil tent. Will post of course when this happens.

P.S. Thanks, Richard, for the retest.

Edited by scfhome on 04/15/2014 20:55:59 MDT.

John Harper
(johnnyh88) - M

Locale: The SouthWest
Re: Argon silnylon - Detailed Analysis Report on 04/16/2014 16:00:47 MDT Print View

Richard - just for comparison, could you provide any information for other normal silnylons you have tested?

J J
(jraiderguy) - M

Locale: Puget Sound
Test thread on 04/16/2014 16:12:57 MDT Print View

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=43902

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Re: Argon silnylon - Detailed Analysis Report on 04/16/2014 16:36:33 MDT Print View

John,

This thread shows you my test results for a broad range of shelter fabrics both when new and also aged: Shelter Fabrics Tested

Scott Chassey
(schassey) - F - MLife

Locale: Bay Area
Any real world anecdotes on the relative waterproof/resistant quality? on 05/07/2014 12:19:15 MDT Print View

It looks like at least one shelter has been made using the Argon Sil at this point, and even though it's early days, I'm wondering if anyone has any anecdotal evidence of how well this fabric deals with rain or wet ground or the like? I had ordered a few yards prior to Richards 'proper' test results post, and have been reluctant to put this fabric to use on a shelter after seeing the sub-1000 HH value.

Any early adopters out there that would care to share their experience?

Thanks!