Argon silnylon
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Thomas Conly
(conly) - F - M

Locale: Lots of canoeing and snow
Argon silnylon on 04/02/2014 19:25:09 MDT Print View

Dutch has added a new fabric to the DIY section of his website: Argon silnylon! Finished weight after coating of 1.06 ounces per sq yard, 1650mm waterproofness and amazingly, $5.75 per yard! This sounds like a dream come true. There are some questions and answers back and forth on the hammock forums.

http://dutchwaregear.com/argon-sil-nylon.html

John Harper
(johnnyh88) - M

Locale: The SouthWest
Re: Argon silnylon on 04/02/2014 19:39:11 MDT Print View

Wow that fabric sounds great. I wonder if it stretches more than regular silnylon when wet? The material should pack down really small.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Dutchware sil on 04/02/2014 23:50:38 MDT Print View

Thank you. Will check it out. They have samples for $1 + mailing.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Argon silnylon on 04/03/2014 00:18:57 MDT Print View

That sounds like the same stuff that I purchased there a few months ago. It is really thin stuff.

--B.G.--

Mole J
(MoleJ) - F

Locale: UK
weight on 04/03/2014 01:35:56 MDT Print View

looks interesting

There is a conflict between his metric and imperial figures. I guess the 1.06 oz is the correct one?

Site states 1.06oz/yd. and also 48g.

1.06oz/yd = 29.7g/yd or 35.5g/m

48g/m = 40g/yd or 1.4oz/yd

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Argon silnylon on 04/03/2014 08:59:20 MDT Print View

"It is really thin stuff."

As would be expected for the weight : )

If you made a tent, would it survive or get ripped to shreds?

Can you sew it without destroying it? With other 0.7 oz nylons like Nobul, it is so thin I worried about that, yet I've used a sleeping bag on quite a few nights and it's held up fine.

What about the floor of a tent or bivy, would it hold up? seems like that has different stresses than a tent

You can't answer definitively, but maybe you have an impression

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Argon silnylon on 04/03/2014 09:26:32 MDT Print View

Very interesting. Ordered some of the red. Seems like even if it's too thin for a shelter, it might work well for a poncho or bivy bottom, or even VBL clothing.

Colin Krusor
(ckrusor) - M

Locale: Northwest US
Weight on 04/03/2014 10:00:10 MDT Print View

I share JMole's curiosity about the weight. David, when you receive yours, would you mind weighing it for us?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Argon silnylon on 04/03/2014 11:59:51 MDT Print View

"If you made a tent, would it survive or get ripped to shreds?"

I checked again. What I purchased a few months ago was Argon not waterproof. What they have now is Argon waterproof sil-nylon (heavier).

The stuff that I had purchased made a nice down blanket.

--B.G.--

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Weight on 04/03/2014 12:34:37 MDT Print View

No problem, Colin. Dutchware emphasizes that this 1.06 oz *finished weight*, and contrasts it with 1.4 oz finished weight of the more common silnylon. Guess we'll see.

Doesn't Golite use a lighter silnylon (15D) for their poncho tarp?

Jonathan Chin
(JonRC) - MLife

Locale: Northwoods
Argon Silnylon on 04/03/2014 18:53:14 MDT Print View

Can anyone comment on quality (especially waterproofness/hydrostatic head) yet?

I was just about to splurge on 9m of 1.0oz cuben at ~5x that price, but this new argon silnylon may instead make it into my MYOG bivy and net tent.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Argon silnylon--Hydrostatic Head Ratings. on 04/03/2014 19:04:02 MDT Print View

From Dutch's HF post:

"I am very proud to present my newest fabric to the ARGON product line. ARGON sil nylon is a high quality rip-stop developed specifically for us with the DIYer tarp maker in mind. Most Sil nylons advertise they are 1.1 but in reality they are 1.1 to start and then have a finished weight of 1.4 ounces per square yard. ARGON Shield has a finished weight of 1.06 ounces per square yard. Also many sil nylons boast a hydrostatic head pressure of 1100mm or less. We had ARGON independently tested in a certified lab with a result of 1650 average head pressure. What's more we are continuing with the same rich ARGON colors. We Currently have Black, Brown, Red, and Woodland Camo. These colors match the other ARGON line up so you can have a matching DIY set up. Lastly I bought a lot and I was able to get a good price on it. I am passing that on to you and I am introducing it at $5.75 for Black, Brown, and Red, $7.50 for Woodland Camo. Now let's make some great tarps.

http://dutchwaregear.com/argon-sil-nylon.html"

So, there's the hydrostatic head rating. Sweet! Good thing, as I have 18 yards ordered.

M

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
low den sil on 04/03/2014 21:11:40 MDT Print View

"Doesn't Golite use a lighter silnylon (15D) for their poncho tarp?"

Yes. Posted on another thread the weight of 1.08 osy on my scale. It is listed on the GL site as 15 denier and 1200mm HH. Medium green color. Most interesting, is they claim it is vapor permeable; that is, 'breathes' to some extent. That probably means the coating is polyurethane (PU), not silicone, like the argon.

Being a 'green weenie' (colorwise), may use it for a front and rear awnings on a 'side entry' tent, with a darker and more waterproof green silnylon for the main body of the tent. How to seal? Sil sealer on silcoat material, PU sealer on PU coated material. So lap fell seams will have sil sealer on one side, PU sealer on the other. Yes, the NAPA sil sealer Permatex will also adhere to some PU coats, so might experiment with that also.

It would be a gas (no pun intended) if the WPB really worked, but doubt that the PU WPB coat would be breathable enough to reduce condensation on a tent.

The weave is the mini-ripstop seen on many of the 15D tent fabrics, almost invisible ripstop except when light shines through. Based on Roger Caffin's observations of leakage of ripstop materials, the finer ripstops should create less opportunity for leakage.

In the last couple years, 15-20D tarps, flies and tent canopies have multiplied in the market, the manufacturer's preference leaning toward PU over sil coats. Not sure why. Have been using high HH 30 denier silnylon for tent floors for several years with no leakage; so doubt the often stated view that the PU coat is more durable per se. Using a 15D 3000mm HH silnylon for a main tent, with a 15D 1200mm HH PU coated nylon for the awnings should yield interesting results in serious rainstorms.

But ordered samples of the Argon sil to check out the colors - the swatches are not large enough for a reliable weight figure. If one of the colors is light enough for me, will order a yard and test-wash-test to check the HH. With the low price, this could be a real boon to MYOGers if it can maintain waterproofing over 1500mm in ordinary use. It will be a wait and see proposition, though. Better safe than sorry.

Thomas Conly
(conly) - F - M

Locale: Lots of canoeing and snow
Re: low den sil on 04/04/2014 06:17:50 MDT Print View

Manufacturers lean towards nylons with a PU coating over sil because you can tape a PU coated nylon but you can't tape silnylon. Also, silnylon is not as flame retardant. In fact, I am pretty sure I read somewhere that some of the silnylon available for DIYers doesn't satisfy the safety requirements at all. As a DIYer though, I'm not worried about taping the seams or flame retardant; just give me the lightest stuff you can!

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Re: Argon silnylon on 04/05/2014 14:13:08 MDT Print View

Just picked up 5 yards of this to make a shelter simlar to my Polycro shelter.
Just making it a little longer to fit my pack in the bottom and my dogs to be able to fit with me.

The Polycro only needs to be for me as the dogs don't see it as a barrier and just walk right through it. Also the sheet is 8 X 10 so you just can't get any bigger or longer for that matter.

Polycro version weighs 8 ounces, this one should be around 12.
I may even net the opening for bug protection?

Edited by awsorensen on 04/05/2014 14:13:38 MDT.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Re: Argon silnylon on 04/05/2014 20:41:32 MDT Print View

Yeah, I ordered (7) yards of the red to make a tarp out of. Gonna go ~10x10. Always wanted a square tarp to try several of the different pitches. Curious how much sag and stretch a 10d nylon tarp will have compared to 30d.

Ryan

Edited by ViolentGreen on 04/05/2014 20:43:14 MDT.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Argon silnylon - 703 mm H2O Avg. & Inconsistent HH readings on 04/07/2014 15:04:28 MDT Print View

I received a sample of brown Argon Silnylon and did a single non-aged HH tests. It tested as high as 3,374 mm H2O in a SINGLE non-aged test area. After I measured multiple test areas, per the applicable standard, there was a much lower average HH rating. The average for all test areas was 702.9 mm H2O.

Do to the variability of the surface coating’s HH it is not inconceivable that other HH testers may report different values.

Edited by richard295 on 04/15/2014 11:40:21 MDT.

David Drake
(DavidDrake) - F - M

Locale: North Idaho
Got mine today on 04/07/2014 19:40:02 MDT Print View

10 yards of red Argon sil, ordered Thursday, received today.

First impression good. Doesn't seem too thin or fragile for a shelter. Maybe a little stretchier on the bias than standard sil, and a smaller ripstop grid. Weight for all ten yards is 17.7 oz--and width is almost 60", rather than 59" advertised. So ounces/square yard matches the 1.06 oz/sy spec.

Surprised by the color--I was expecting bright red, and this quite dark, with a slight orange cast, esp. with light behind it. Pretty muted for a red, which I think will work well.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
silnylon on 04/07/2014 21:53:41 MDT Print View

Re: "Manufacturers lean towards nylons with a PU coating over sil because you can tape a PU coated nylon but you can't tape silnylon. Also, silnylon is not as flame retardant."

So true, and thank you for reminding me.

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: "Argon silnylon" on 04/08/2014 07:20:22 MDT Print View

This looks like a great potential option for floors. If the HH is so high, then I would assume that most of that comes from the thickness of the silicon coating. I'm mostly worried about wearing the sil coating out or exceeding HH on a floor rather than anything else. If we assume that its a similar base fabric to the Argon 67, then its a .49oz sil coating vs ~.2oz to ~0.3oz coating on "regular" silnylons. That's a substatial difference.

Dutch now has some great bivy fabrics on there at a great price...hmmmm...