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HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 03/31/2014 10:30:06 MDT Print View

First one in relation to my other post about the incident of homeless being shot for illegal camping near the Sandia NF (he later died), there was a protest by younger residents against the police that went violent. One young man even brought what seemed to be a rifle (AK-47) but was persuaded to put it away (assuming it was it functional).

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/31/us/new-mexico-protest-police/index.html?iref=allsearch
.., then the Albuquerque paper at http://www.abqjournal.com/376598/news/hundreds-hit-streets-in-protest-against-apd.html

Second was the latest athletic riot where the Tuscon police needed to restore order due to a basketball game loss (though riots have occurred in wins too ... sports hooliganism has been around but I do not recall taking on the police like this?)

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/29/us/ncaa-tournament-final-four/index.html?iref=allsearch


Reason I post this is I've noted a tendency getting worse over the last 25 years to react more. About 10 years ago, I barely missed a nationally televised high school riot near work (it was a new school in a good part of town btw); now 15 years before, I've seen university frats riot over sports but not take on the police. So while we do have the right to protest whatever (w/permit) and I can see if getting emotional if a draft card would have sent them to Vietnam. Damaging property and fighting the police over a basketball loss (or win)? Do you think the young are more willing to go toe to toe with local police forces?

ed: brevity

Edited by hknewman on 03/31/2014 12:34:24 MDT.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 03/31/2014 17:15:29 MDT Print View

Never mind the protest, what about the murder of the camper?
I watched the footage. The homeless guy drops his stuff when challenged and puts his arms out away from his body. Then the footage cuts to a view of him lying fatally wounded on the ground. At this point, I don't suppose the police (who look like military) had any idea whether he was a vagrant or a dumbass british tourist who thought wild camping wasn't a problem.

What's going on in the land of the free?

Edited by tallbloke on 03/31/2014 17:17:06 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 03/31/2014 20:02:24 MDT Print View

"What's going on in the land of the free?"

Oh thanks for asking. Well the kids are on their way to the Oregon Coast to enjoy spring break with their cousins and grandparents. You'd think my wife and I would have a week of fun and exciting things planned but sadly work, work and more work is all that's on the docket for the week. A natural gas plant exploded not too far away from where I live so THAT was certainly exciting. Our neighbor's dog had puppies and it looks like the last one went to a good home. The president of our HOA has been a real tool this year but rumor has it that my neighbor Kirk is going to run against him. We all wish him well. Just put some new tires on the truck; even though I drive a 1/2 ton, decided to go with 10-ply since we tow a travel trailer from time to time. Just ran five miles along the Columbia River... beautiful afternoon and hope we can hang on to this beautiful weather for a bit longer. Have to admit that I'm on the post apocalypse bandwagon so had to watch Divergent this weekend... I give it a thumb’s up.

Oh let's see... what else... what else... a few hundred thousand American police officers went to work today, performed their jobs with honor and in accordance with the U.S. Constitution, and 99.999999% of them would run into harm’s way to save you so you can spend yet another day on this wonderful planet of ours pondering global warming and the meaning of mayonnaise.

Edit: again... thanks for asking. It really means a lot.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 03/31/2014 20:04:05 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 03/31/2014 20:22:43 MDT Print View

That does not excuse when and how they really blow it.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 03/31/2014 20:27:00 MDT Print View

Nobody is excusing it. A local teacher inappropriately touched a student. Should I now hold all teachers in the "land of the free" in contempt for the behavior of a bad apple?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 03/31/2014 20:35:05 MDT Print View

No you shouldn't, but there needs to be accountability. Honestly I think that I should not be worried about being pulled over or peacefully protesting . Sure, if I behave just right all will go well. Should I talk back?? How is that much different than a wife whose husband works hard, provides, means well, would jump through fire to save his family....yet should she mouth off she'll get the $hit beaten out of her?
At the end of the day we are equal people and I should be able to talk, discuss and act as I do with anyone else. Respectfully yes. With fear and intimidation? No.


And no, I am not saying that is how all police officers operate, but enough to make it a problem.

Edited by Kat_P on 03/31/2014 20:45:29 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 03/31/2014 21:00:23 MDT Print View

If you're being treated like that, then you need to contact the police chief, internal affairs/OIG/OPR/EIEIO, FBI etc as what you're describing is unprofessional and a violation of civil rights.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 03/31/2014 21:16:53 MDT Print View

I appreciate you saying that Ian.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 00:43:55 MDT Print View

Ian: "a few hundred thousand American police officers went to work today, performed their jobs with honor and in accordance with the U.S. Constitution, and 99.999999% of them would run into harm’s way to save you so you can spend yet another day on this wonderful planet of ours pondering global warming and the meaning of mayonnaise."

A lot of cops would stand at the edge of a lake watching someone drown because they'd get into trouble for not filling out a health and safety assessment before jumping in to save them. Happened in the UK a couple of years back.

And I wasn't generalising about the majority of cops anyway. It's the 'homeland security helmetcam and auto-rifle' types who look like they need some retraining.
Post 9/11 Anti-terror laws seem to have made a big difference to law enforcement attitudes over there.

Mind you, there is this too:
http://www.heavy.com/news/2014/01/keith-vidal-cops-shoot-schizophrenic-teen-nc/

The UK police have shot and killed 18 since 1980 in a country with 1/4 the US population. They are trained to make leg shots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom

587 shot dead by police in the US in 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_
law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2012

Edited by tallbloke on 04/01/2014 01:56:53 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 07:44:23 MDT Print View

There was just a story on the TV about an off duty cop that pulled a couple people out of a burning car, got burned a little, they were DUI,...

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 10:59:07 MDT Print View

While every American has a 97% chance of being shot in the face at some point in their lives, it looks like you're safe and sound...

.Can't get there from here

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 12:53:52 MDT Print View

Well, sure. If we constantly ate the bland slop you blokes call food, we'd probably have the fight taken out of us as well...

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 13:25:20 MDT Print View

How much is the increasing militarization of the police due to the increasing abundance of high powered semi-auto, high capacity weaponry amongst civilians?

It's my understanding that the North Hollywood bank robbery of 1997 was a turning point in the Los Angeles area, promoting police to start carrying AR15s and more armor.

Have we created an arms race between citizens and our own police departments?

1

Tell me that the fact that the average person can walk into a gun shop and buy one of these ^^^^ doesn't change law enforcement calculus in a major way. I suppose that if you want a society armed to the teeth, you're going to get a police force that has to surpass it. I suspect it's why we see so many police that look more like soldiers on our streets today.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 13:39:23 MDT Print View

Craig hits it out of the ballpark. Kat why do the police get some much hate? I simply don't understand your disdain for authority......and this is coming from someone who has questioned authority his whole life.....a punk rocker. Lol

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 14:12:22 MDT Print View

No hate here. No disdain either. My step daughter is dating the son of a police chief, a really nice guy. I question authority that is all and I think that in itself ought not to get me into trouble, not on this forum, nor on the street .

The fact that two very reasonable people on the forum have sent me pms cautioning me that what I posted could get me into trouble.....is troubling in itself. You tell me...should I get into trouble for my posts on this subject?

Edited by Kat_P on 04/01/2014 14:18:17 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
And on 04/01/2014 14:15:02 MDT Print View

I have never been In trouble with the law. No moving violations, nothing at all. I have questioned some actions of local officers when I was younger and saw some things I disagreed with. I wish more people would speak up when they saw something wrong. And I speak up on all kinds of things that seem wrong to me, what is the difference here?



Maybe it is having been raised in Europe, where wars happened in-house, hearing stories from family from both sides: those that obeyed authority without questioning and those that were on the receiving end of that,

Edited by Kat_P on 04/01/2014 14:41:26 MDT.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 14:45:46 MDT Print View

Doug: Well, sure. If we constantly ate the bland slop you blokes call food, we'd probably have the fight taken out of us as well...

I enjoyed my 14oz Aberdeen angus steak with a couple of fine locally brewed ales outside on the terrace of a town centre public house this evening. The warmest day of the year so far. Life north of Watford gap isn't all bad.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: And on 04/01/2014 15:05:45 MDT Print View

All reasonable responses Kat. I getcha and agree. Should any of us post stuff on here and risk retaliation? Dunno....how.much of a Nanny State have we become? I have seen some F'd up stuff in my life when it comes to police brutality. ....however I think most police officers do the right thing. Maybe the actions of others in tense situations cause police to act with rage. I have learned that there are times to speak up and times to close my mouth as I like the way my teeth look when I rarely smile :).....however you can't expect to go toe to toe with a police officer and expect to come out fine.....and nor should you. What about when a suspect reaches for the officers revolver? All bets are off as far as I am concerned. The officer has the right to defend him/herself no? I see a lot of outrage when this does occur....same goes for all the hit and run crashes that occur. Get out and run. People today do things differently these days. ...no remorse or the fact that many have no respect for others

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Weekend of protests going bad and more violence... on 04/01/2014 15:14:24 MDT Print View

All joking aside, the video in question is sad. Craig touched on it but the referenced bank robbery brought to light how woefully underpowered US Police were against criminals. Also, it's important to note that a .223/.556 round is actually safer in an urban environment than a 9mm is. Plenty of research on that topic which you can google on your own.

I'm truly happy for you that this isn't an issue in the UK but things are different over here.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: And on 04/01/2014 15:20:30 MDT Print View

I respect the job most officers do and the risks they take and I am certainly not willing to take something like that on.
There should be no taboo though and criticism and questioning should be ok and healthy, if done with an honest intention and with respect.

I have never spoken to an officer with disrespect, but when I was younger I did approach some that I thought were abusing someone and questioned what and how they were doing it. That happened twice. Other people thought I was just asking for trouble and said I was lucky to be a young white female. All I did was want to talk to them "as if" they were normal people, which in my book should be ok.