Perils of stealth camping, hiking, or even jogging in the US
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Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
+1 Craig on 03/28/2014 14:08:56 MDT Print View

Very well said.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Perils of stealth camping, hiking, or even jogging in the US on 03/28/2014 14:09:17 MDT Print View

That recently released study of fetus autopsies said it has to do with brain development. They said it could be genetic, environment, or combination.

Lots of other studies that are inconclusive whether it's genetic, environment, or combination.

Part of the increase in Autism spectrum numbers is that people are more aware of it. Before there were more undiagnosed. A portion of "the spectrum" are perfectly able to live productive independent lives.

Good that there's more awareness so people can be treated early.

With the cuts to public education spending over the last few decades, it's difficult to treat people effectively. I don't think many people say that people with Autism are just lazy and spending money treating them is encouraging them to be dependent on the state, lets just cut this social spending.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Perils of stealth camping, hiking, or even jogging in the US on 03/28/2014 17:39:41 MDT Print View

What have we become?

Edited by ouzel on 03/28/2014 19:47:20 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: We're Failing People on 03/28/2014 17:50:49 MDT Print View

"we're lacking something far more important: will."

I think it goes far deeper than that, Craig. We're (generalization of our current society, or certainly parts of it, often around cities) lacking empathy, compassion, patience and understanding. We're lacking community. We're lacking basic courtesy. We'll never have the will as long as lack these. Look at all the media around us, listen to our 'thought leaders' and politicians. We're all about division, exclusion and dislike, and it's sad.

robert van putten
(Bawana) - F

Locale: Planet Bob
Murder, plain and simple. on 03/28/2014 18:22:56 MDT Print View

That was murder, plain and simple.

Since when do you use lethal force fist, then the bean bag rounds?
They could easily have taserd him or dropped him with a single bean bag round at any time.

At no time were the murderers ( I'll not call those bastards police ) in any danger.

If a citizen had done such a thing there would be no question that it was murder.
What a horrifying film. Killed a guy for a minor misdemeanour. Of course he was really killed for "contempt of cop".

Eric Osburn
(osb40000) - MLife
School Spending? on 04/01/2014 12:53:35 MDT Print View

I know this is off topic but on average spending per student in the U.S. has increased year after year with 2000-2010 spending more than 1990-2000 and 1990-2000 spending more than 1980-1990 and so forth. I work in public education and the myth that we don't spend enough is just that, a myth. You could make the argument that teachers aren't paid enough, and in some areas of the nation you would be correct but most districts pay teachers fairly. The biggest problem is too much overhead from administration.

The idea that Reagan closed mental health facilities is also revisionist history btw. ;) Look into it the topic further and the truth is easy to see. He no more closed mental health facilities than Obama destroyed the economy in 08'.

Back to the topic at hand, I too am alarmed and the militaristic direction in which police departments are headed in this nation. I work with officers on a regular basis and find them for the most part to be very good people who are not part of the problem. They have a difficult job, one that I would not want to perform. Even these officers recognize that there is a small subset that are the problem and who give the rest of them bad names, we're talking 5-15% depending upon the department. Unfortunately those police are the ones who shoot first, ask questions later and who escalate the intensity of situations instead of diffusing them.

The real problem we have is a police force that instead of policing their own protect their own and more often than not obstruct justice. If bad cops lost their jobs and were prosecuted for their crimes the general public's mindset towards police would be much more favorable than it currently is. Again, when police are involved in a situation, be courteous, calm, and follow orders (assuming no unconstitutional or blatantly wrong orders are given), let cool heads prevail because chances are the officer is just trying to do their job.

Doug hit the nail on the head with: "I think it goes far deeper than that, Craig. We're (generalization of our current society, or certainly parts of it, often around cities) lacking empathy, compassion, patience and understanding. We're lacking community. We're lacking basic courtesy. We'll never have the will as long as lack these. Look at all the media around us, listen to our 'thought leaders' and politicians. We're all about division, exclusion and dislike, and it's sad."

The bad cops don't see us as human, have no compassion and have no love for their fellow man. They see themselves and judge, jury and executioner. Disobey one of their almighty orders and pay with severe bodily harm and in some cases your life. They hide behind the law and behind their union protection and abuse the power with which they have been entrusted. Punish the bad cops, weed them out of the departments and restore public faith in LEOs.

As was mentioned, the divisive talk that comes out of D.C. and the media categorizes and segregates us instead of people seeing each other as first and foremost human beings and secondly, citizens of the greatest nation the world has known. We need respect and compassion for one another and to value the sanctity of life.

James Masson
(hikestofish) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: f on 04/05/2014 18:03:38 MDT Print View

I got to call myself a veteran after two weeks in my job but I was in Afghanistan. Police are taxpayers and contribute to those settlements and believe it or not, their salaries too via the taxes that they pay. I know a lot of LEO's and I wouldn't say anyone of them are insecure or megalomaniacs. The ones I know have all left the service and decided to continue their service in another fashion. I believe that when most LEO's use their weapon they are justified. When I have to use deadly force in my line of work, I only need to have a reasonable doubt that the person is going to put my life or another Soldier's life in danger. LEO's have the same rules (roughly anyways, their's are more restrictive but similar). If I was in Afghanistan and someone was spouting off to me about how they were "going to kill me" and then had a knife...well, that would be the end of that story. If I was in the states and ran into the same situation the story would probably end in a similar fashion (I exercise my 2nd Amendment rights). I don't blame the LEO and I definitely don't think they are a "killer".

Edited by hikestofish on 04/05/2014 18:12:41 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: School Spending? on 04/05/2014 21:05:15 MDT Print View

"I know this is off topic but on average spending per student in the U.S. has increased year after year with 2000-2010 spending more than 1990-2000 and 1990-2000 spending more than 1980-1990 and so forth. I work in public education and the myth that we don't spend enough is just that, a myth. You could make the argument that teachers aren't paid enough, and in some areas of the nation you would be correct but most districts pay teachers fairly. The biggest problem is too much overhead from administration."

It would be interesting to see data for that. Or a source. Is it more than inflation? Or more than what similarly educated professional people?

Two problems are rising cost of health care, and they used to under fund pensions which are now coming due.

Even if teacher compensation for K-12 and higher education is the same, there's a problem.

In Oregon (and Washington and California I think) they passed property tax reductions. School used to be paid for primarily by property tax.

Now it's primarily paid for by income tax. They took some money away from income tax for higher education. But not enough to make up for the property tax so K-12 is squeezed. And higher education is squeezed because of what was taken for K-12.

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
good cop on 04/05/2014 23:27:41 MDT Print View

It's a sad topic, but I wanted to add that for almost a decade I've worked in an emergency room, where we see this demographic on a daily basis, and the local police (Mount Vernon PD) do an amazing job de-escalating situations like this. I've seen MVPD invest hours, literally, in talking it out with mentally ill folks who are having a bad day. Most of the time these people act aggressively, scream, posture, and throw things, and these officers are almost always successful in resolving it without laying hands on anyone. Yay for awesome cops!

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: good cop on 04/06/2014 18:05:14 MDT Print View

"Most of the time these people act aggressively, scream, posture, and throw things, and these officers are almost always successful in resolving it without laying hands on anyone. Yay for awesome cops!"

The post I've been hoping for. It CAN be done. Thanks for bringing it into the discussion, Ozzie.

Valerie E
(Wildtowner) - M

Locale: Grand Canyon State
RE: Re: good cop on 04/06/2014 18:56:37 MDT Print View

A big +1!

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Re Re School Spending on 04/06/2014 19:14:26 MDT Print View

I don't know how school funding compares to past decades but I teach in a Title 1 school so I know a few things about education.

Its a complete myth that our schools are under funded. We have plenty of money for books, technology etc. It would be nice if we had a few more specialists but we probably could have them if we spent less money on other things. At any rate no amount of money is going to make unmotivated kids learn.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re Re School Spending on 04/06/2014 19:59:38 MDT Print View

"At any rate no amount of money is going to make unmotivated kids learn."

You nailed it, Luke. The parents don't send their kids to school ready to learn, and the culture doesn't encourage it either. I'm married to a woman from a country/culture where the opposite is true, and they are churning out highly educated people by the millions in buildings that would be condemned in this country. They're the ones you see in grad schools across the country in the sciences, at hi tech firms, and Silicon Valley. Wake up, America. They're eating your lunch.

My prediction is that the most common injury in future generations of Americans will be rotator cuff tears from polishing the BMW's and Mercedes Benzes of people with names like Vijay and Wang.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re Re School Spending on 04/06/2014 21:04:14 MDT Print View

"At any rate no amount of money is going to make unmotivated kids learn."

______________________________________

If kids are not deemed mature enough to vote, to buy beer and cigarettes, to drive cars (under 16), to make important life decisions by themselves, why do we then let them "choose" not to learn?

I don't buy the "unwilling to learn" philosophy.

I've dealt with quite a few that were "unwilling to learn" over the years. Lo and behold, with the right people and the right approach, they were not only willing, they were exceptional.

Educators cannot control what happens outside of the classroom. We cannot control what happens at home. We cannot change dysfunctional families. We cannot change family attitudes towards education.

But we can create an environment in which every kid is expected and required to learn, seven hours or more per day. A daunting task indeed, but you can find plenty of examples throughout this country of exceptional public schools doing exceptional work. Despite all the odds or Title 1 classifications, some schools and teachers do regularly succeed with students that should be in the "unwilling to learn" category. I happen to work at one of these schools, actually one of the few in all of Southern CA that can boast success amongst certain groups that are struggling everywhere else. We've been studied by university education programs because of this.

Part of the secret: It can't be done when people believe that some kids aren't ready, willing, or able to learn and we quietly let them slip through the cracks. You don't back off because a kid is "unwilling to learn", you double down as a team and figure out what's going to work.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: RE: Re: good cop on 04/06/2014 21:35:33 MDT Print View

And here's a big +2!

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: Re: Re: Re Re School Spending on 04/06/2014 21:37:48 MDT Print View

"But we can create an environment in which every kid is expected and required to learn, seven hours or more per day. A daunting task indeed, but you can find plenty of examples throughout this country of exceptional public schools doing exceptional work. Despite all the odds or Title 1 classifications, some schools and teachers do regularly succeed with students that should be in the "unwilling to learn" category. I happen to work at one of these schools, actually one of the few in all of Southern CA that can boast success amongst certain groups that are struggling everywhere else. We've been studied by university education programs because of this."

May your tribe increase!

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re Re School Spending on 04/06/2014 22:22:36 MDT Print View

School spending has doubled in the last 25 years. Test scores have dropped. We're wasting our money and should do away with public education. etc. etc....

There's another interpretation from http://www.epi.org/publication/books_wheremoneygone/

They say they're a non partisan think tank to include needs of low and middle income people

A couple points they made

The CPI doesn't measure inflation accurately, costs that schools have have gone up faster than CPI. I assume this includes health care costs and pensions that were under-funded 25 years ago.

There have been new programs like special education, breakfast and lunch for some students, programs to prevent dropouts, english as second language,...

Teachers have higher education now. A teacher with the same degree would be paid about the same now as 25 years ago.

I don't know they're interpretation is correct, but "costs have doubled and test scores dropped" is overly simplistic.

Oh, and teachers are 66% of 2011 expenses, operations 18%, administration 11%, support 6% (health, guidance counselors,...). Cutting administration isn't the answer - you might be able to cut a little but it won't amount to enough to make difference. You need some administrators to make sure schools are run efficiently.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re Re School Spending on 04/06/2014 22:29:45 MDT Print View

Schools don't use computers very good

Like kahnacademy.org has these courses. Each student goes at own pace. Students get bored in class all doing the same thing.

I don't think established schools and teachers will embrace this new change easily.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Computers in School on 04/06/2014 22:37:46 MDT Print View

We had a pretty neat math program to help struggling 6th graders catch up. When I was in the training I remember thinking "Why don't we just us this for everyone?"

Technology is a whole new can of worms, often teachers don't make full us of it so its essentially wasted money. On the other hand used properly it could really change the way we teach.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Computers in School on 04/06/2014 22:43:26 MDT Print View

Do teachers still stand in front of a class, go through the same lesson for the entire class?

That would be enough for bored students to develop bad attitude. At least it was in 1960s. And can't believe that's still what they do today.