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Titanium Sand/Snow Stakes
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Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
aluminum on 04/30/2014 13:55:57 MDT Print View

I was thinking more about these. While the titanium version works great. The prices for sheet goods is crazy expensive and I can make an aluminum version for about half the cost at the same weight... So would you rather have an aluminum version for $5 or a titanium version for $10?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: aluminum on 04/30/2014 14:19:15 MDT Print View

Aluminium for me Lawson.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: aluminum on 04/30/2014 14:23:00 MDT Print View

You did not state anything about the strength of the aluminum version.

--B.G.--

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
good point on 04/30/2014 14:46:26 MDT Print View

Good Point. It would most likely be 7075-T6 so 83KSI... While not as strong as 6-4 Titanium at an equal thickness, I would be able to use a thicker material. I could jump up to .032" or even .040" without changing the weight.. So in theory twice as thick which means the aluminum stake could be as strong or even stronger for an equal weight. Though I am not sure how the math behind that pans out... But one thing is for sure. They would be half the cost.

Jeff Gerke
(mtnrunner) - M

Locale: Utah
Re: aluminum on 04/30/2014 14:54:02 MDT Print View

Half the price for Aluminum sounds good if weight and strength are close.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: good point on 04/30/2014 15:22:42 MDT Print View

"so 83KSI"

What does that mean?

--B.G.--

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
Tensile on 04/30/2014 15:39:13 MDT Print View

The Tensile Strength. 7075-T6 from my source specs 83,000 PSI. Titanium Grade 5 6AL-4V from my source specs 125,000 PSI. So there is a difference in strength. BUT aluminum is MUCH lighter... I am not sure the math but I think that the strength of the two are very close weight wise. For the Titanium stake I was going to use .020". For the Aluminum stake I can use .032" and the weight would be the exact same. So what I am saying is the strength should be very close to the same. Weight will be the same. The only real difference is cost. Aluminum is cheaper per lb which will make an aluminum version of the stake about half the cost..

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Tensile on 04/30/2014 15:47:36 MDT Print View

Ahh, so you meant to use "83,000 PSI" and instead you used "83KSI."

That's pressure.

In some regions, the soil is very rocky, so you start pounding a weak stake in until it hits a rock and bends. If you start with stronger and harder stakes, it will withstand the buried rocks. My point is that a titanium stake will survive a lot longer than an aluminum stake. In regions with soft soil, aluminum would be OK.

--B.G.--

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
Sand/Snow Stakes on 04/30/2014 15:52:58 MDT Print View

Good point about rocky soil, BUT these are Sand/Snow Stakes....

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Sand/Snow Stakes on 04/30/2014 15:59:45 MDT Print View

I get it.

Each stake will be laser-etched with a tiny label that says, "for use only in sand or snow."

--B.G.--

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Sand/Snow Stakes on 04/30/2014 16:21:55 MDT Print View

> these are Sand/Snow Stakes....

No matter what the strength of the aluminium alloy used, the stakes will still freeze in place in the snow under some conditions and be extremely difficult to get out. There will be lots of damage done during extraction. Snow and ice bond to the surface of aluminium something awful. That's not theory; that's hard experience.

And that is why we use Ti snow stakes: snow and ice do not really bond to that metal. They are so much easier to get out. One stomp and they have broken loose from the ice.

Now, for sand - go for it.

Cheers

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
Catch 22 on 04/30/2014 17:41:47 MDT Print View

While I do agree with Roger about snow freezing to the surface of aluminum, this can actually be a good thing.... After all, EVERY snow fluke on the market is made from Aluminum. But with an aluminum version. I would most likely not put the holes as it would make the stake much harder to remove... All that said, Don't get me wrong, Titanium is a great metal for this application and the reason I wanted to use it, but the prices for titanium sheet are out of sight compared to the last time I bought some... But, I am going to keep looking...

Edited by Mountainfitter on 05/10/2014 20:10:10 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Catch 22 on 05/01/2014 00:48:41 MDT Print View

Aw Gee Lawson - you are definitely but absolutely missing the Ti market!

Go to http://www.titaniumjoe.com/, ask Joe Szigeti there for help (and if you want, tell him I sent you). He may not be a huge amount cheaper, but he sells offcuts of all sizes. You do NOT have to buy full sheets or 500 lb lots.

No-one but a mil/gov contractor buys from the regular Ti suppliers!

Cheers

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
Titanium on 05/06/2014 13:03:23 MDT Print View

Ok I found a deal on some titanium sheet. Not from Titanium Joe... Though he did have some pretty decent prices... I don't want to advertise them, but if you need a small amount of material he seems to be the guy to buy it from. Give him a shout..

I hope people are still interested. Though I might do an aluminum version too : )

Edited by Mountainfitter on 05/10/2014 20:11:52 MDT.

Josiah Vandervelde
(eternalnoob) - F - M

Locale: Florida
Titanium on 05/06/2014 13:32:49 MDT Print View

I'd be interested in titanium ones

Brendan Howe
(weeman) - MLife
Titanium on 05/06/2014 15:43:59 MDT Print View

I'm keen for some titanium snow stakes. Aluminium can be a real pain to remove when they are frozen solid in the morning.

Herman E
(hre814) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Either on 05/10/2014 02:45:04 MDT Print View

I'd buy either. Prefer holes.

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
Both on 05/10/2014 20:14:50 MDT Print View

I am going to do both versions. Holes and no holes and see which ones sell better.. I might even do two sizes. 3"x5" and 4"x7". Anyone up for the larger size? Weight is about 36 grams but man do they hold like a boat anchor... Price would be about $20 each though as they take alot of material and waterjet cutting them is expensive.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Both on 05/11/2014 03:50:28 MDT Print View

Hi Lawson

If you take a look at my articles on Ti trowels and Ti snow stakes, you will see that I recommend using heavy tin snips to cut the Ti sheet. Provided the pivot is solid and the blades are stiff (and the handles long enough!), the stuff is fairly easy to cut.

Drilling with quality HSS drill bits at slow speed also goes well.

Might cut the cost, maybe.

My big Ti deadman anchors which I use at the ends on my tunneels are 3" x 6.5".

Cheers

Terrell Heatherly
(TheTurtle) - F

Locale: In the woods
sand/snow stakes... on 05/11/2014 20:20:42 MDT Print View

I would buy either ti or al and with or without holes, but I live in the southeast where we have very little snow and would be using these mostly for loose sandy applications as I spend a lot of time on the beach.
For me personally the aluminum, no holes design sounds great.
Just my $0.02... :)