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The GOP (The Party For The Unstable) Hate National Parks Too
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Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/23/2014 23:46:02 MDT Print View

"Matthew, you really do blame Obama for the government shutdown? Wow. Read much? Please give sane, credible answers instead of a bunch of memes"

If you were paying attention, Ken, I said nothing about who was responsible for the shut down, just who was responsible for closing the memorials and parks and making it as difficult as possible for purely political reasons (to make Republicans look bad). You fell for it, hook, line and sinker, obviously. That was your guy, not one of mine, son.

Oh...here's a meme for you, Ken (I know you like them)

b

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Edited by bigfoot2 on 03/23/2014 23:50:21 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: The GOP (The Party For The Unstable) Hate National Parks Too on 03/24/2014 09:31:13 MDT Print View

"I think turning over our national parks to the states would be a fantastic idea.

Why can't liberals understand this concept? Wanting to defund something at a federal level doesn't mean they want it removed completely."


I don't think Yellowstone National Park would have happened if it was just a local decision. Bunch of East coast meddlers made it happen. If it got defunded federally, it wouldn't be a park any more.

If you think the plan is to defund at national level and then fund at local level, I think you've been conned. It's easy for "you people" to agree on defunding, but you'll never agree on funding from somewhere else. The currently reduced funding for education will get further squeezed. etc.

But I agree maybe the National Park system is big enough. Maybe moving a little land from national forest or BLM to National Park on limited basis.

Half the federal budget is Social Security and Medicare. If the federal budget is too big, maybe we need to reduce that a little. I don't see how it's fair for some young person trying to get by, to support some well off senior driving around in his RV. I'm on the receiving end of this but I still think it's unfair.

In the 16th century "The Prince" by Machiavelli, he says when you conquer a people, you give them something in good times to get them in your favor, so when you need them in tough times, they'll support you. Many of these liberal programs use this principal. We should be wary of this and limit programs, like social security, or else they'll get out of hand.

But the GOP doesn't care about any of this. They just want welfare for corporations. A return to the Charles Dickens model of a few super rich people. Using all of the Machiavelli techniques to subjugate people.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Libbers rule teabaggers drool blah blah blah blah on 03/24/2014 09:58:18 MDT Print View

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ....

Hasn't this been covered a few hundred times this week? Next topic already. Something awesome like "should ferret legging become an olympic sport?"

This probably wasn't all that constructive but whatevs.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 03/24/2014 10:09:33 MDT.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/24/2014 11:44:31 MDT Print View

Yes Matthew originally The Democratic Party was on that side of the fence per se' ......however both parties moved in different directions during the Civil Rights Movement which YOU failed to mention. You need to do a better job

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Libbers rule teabaggers drool blah blah blah blah on 03/24/2014 11:50:00 MDT Print View

"Blah blah blah blah..."

True enough : )

I just couldn't let it go when proposed to turn over National Parks to locals...

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Libbers rule teabaggers drool blah blah blah blah on 03/24/2014 12:11:46 MDT Print View

I'm with you on that one Jerry. It's an interesting discussion which unfortunately Ken doomed to school yard nyah nyah nyahing from the get-go.

While not perfect, I genuinely love our National Parks. I've never had a bad encounter with their staff or rangers and I think overall, they are truly passionate about what they do. I think it's entirely possible that some states may be able of doing an even better job. But I also think some states would be willing to flatten them, add strip malls, all while singing "drill baby drill!"

They are too precious of a resource to leave it up to chance. I also see it as a national project as they are a national resource.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Re: Libbers rule teabaggers drool blah blah blah blah on 03/24/2014 19:44:29 MDT Print View

"While not perfect, I genuinely love our National Parks. I've never had a bad encounter with their staff or rangers and I think overall, they are truly passionate about what they do. I think it's entirely possible that some states may be able of doing an even better job. But I also think some states would be willing to flatten them, add strip malls, all while singing "drill baby drill!"

They are too precious of a resource to leave it up to chance. I also see it as a national project as they are a national resource."

+1. Our TN super majority would have the Smokies logged and producing natural gas in about 2 weeks.

Ryan

. Kirby
(Kirby805)
I feel like I'm takng crazy pills on 03/24/2014 21:45:16 MDT Print View

I am totally bewildered that people believe closing the war memorials was part of some liberal/socialist plot. Like Obama, or one of his marxist allies, picked up the red telephone and called the head of the National Mall Parks Service (or whatever) and told them to board it all up to punish the REAL Americans. Give me a break.

Then watching all the vultures flock down there for screen time pretending they give two craps about some aging vet's access to a fountain. You mean they don't have access to their fountain for a week? OH THE HUMANITY. Let's not mention the dozens of critical services that were shuttered. It's all totally superficial, and the REAL Americans eat it up. WWII veterans, the real victims of the government shutdown.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/24/2014 23:22:40 MDT Print View

Just a guess here,N Kirby, but I suspect you're not a veteran?

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/28/2014 21:47:51 MDT Print View

"Yes I was trolling....I cannot nor will not hide my disdain for The GOP/Teaparty. Michael, you mention Teddy Rosevelt, but I think you might need to go back and re-read some history. That Republican Party is NOT the same as it is today. Nice try"

Well, Ken, it looks like the Democrat party is the same as it used to be. At least in California, that is.

LOL

d

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Like today's GOP would really welcome Teddy Roosevelt on 03/29/2014 14:07:16 MDT Print View

“The absence of effective State, and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power,” and follow that statement with a call for “a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes ... increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.”

Who was this left-winger? Theodore Roosevelt, in his famous 1910 New Nationalism speech.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/30/2014 00:51:49 MDT Print View

Yeah, Teddy was a righteous dude, Jennifer. Loved GUNS, too ;) I don't think he'd like the left's anti-bully campaign, though...

b

”By calling attention to ‘a well regulated militia,’ ‘the security of the nation,’ and the right of each citizen ‘to keep and bear arms,’ our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy… The Second Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the Second Amendment will always be important.”

What right-wing "Teabagger" said that, Jennifer? Oh, it was JFK. LOL JFK was a lifetime member of the NRA. Bet he'd be voting conservative these days.

Edited by bigfoot2 on 03/30/2014 13:28:31 MDT.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/30/2014 14:09:26 MDT Print View

Matthew, I have nothing against guns at all, so not sure what your point here is.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/30/2014 14:41:57 MDT Print View

Roosevelt:

- in favor of labor unions
- in favor of more governmental regulation & power
- criticized the wealthy & in favor of higher taxation
- fought big business & dissolved several monopolies

He was probably more left leaning than our so-called socialist/muslim/dictator President Obama. The Republicans of today would hate this guy.

Ryan

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/30/2014 15:24:11 MDT Print View

"Matthew, I have nothing against guns at all, so not sure what your point here is."

Just illustrating your comparisons of apples to oranges is all. Every parties former presidents can be categorized differently by today's standards. You saying Roosevelt would be a liberal is as ridiculous as me saying JFK would be a conservative. Basically, that was what you were getting at in your post. If they knew what we know now,in today's America, i'm sure they would vote and think differently.

Edited by bigfoot2 on 03/30/2014 23:26:30 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: The GOP haters on BPL. on 03/31/2014 08:13:09 MDT Print View

someone posted this on portlandhikers.org

monies from NWFP:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mthood/pa ... ev2_026999

Trail maintenence in Mt Hood National forest:
2003: "more than 206 miles, 3 bridges, etc."
2004: "about 300 miles of trail.."
2005: "117 miles of trail" [
2006: "95 miles of trail"
2007: "136 miles of trail"
2008: "109 miles of trail"
2009: Nothing
2010: Nothing
2011: Nothing
2012: Nothing.

Starting in 2008, federal spending got squeezed

This war between conservatives and liberals (that both exploit) has resulted in reduction in federal spending. If you think the federal government is incompetent and the less they do, the better, then fine, but if you think there are important things worth doing, it's a problem.

I think worse than this is education, more of an effect on the success of the country

I prefer the attitude after WWII to Reagan - more of a "we can do anything" cooperative attitude - although I am romantisizing and remembering what I want : )

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
National park funding on 03/31/2014 09:06:24 MDT Print View

Every time I go to a national park, or wilderness area, I marvel at how awesome it is to have public land. This is land that is supported by my tax dollars....

Now, the wealthy (and some greedy people...) don't like to pay taxes - OK, I get it. But the wealthy can afford to buy their own ranch in Montana, or their own gated community that looks out over vast expanses of private forest. I can't. My guess is that most of us can't. The ONLY way we get to enjoy these things is if we all pool our money together (known as TAX DOLLARS) and together, as a nation, be stewards of the land.

A hiker I met on the JMT last year called herself Yellowstone - and she was excited to get home to "her" buffalo herd in Wyoming. A group of us said "you have a buffalo herd?" and she replied "yep. and so do you! It belongs to all of us."

Her attitude really got me thinking...

We need to be careful so that the greedy anti-tax people don't take over. There are certain things we as individuals simply cannot do and that we must do together. Call me socialist all day long, but it's important that we - TOGETHER - protect and invest in our public lands.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Re: National park funding on 03/31/2014 10:56:27 MDT Print View

Public land exists for recreation but also to help supply water storage and habitat for wildlife (and more importantly, the genetic health of big animals, including game). An additional focus may be geological stability, though those areas may be smaller. The fatal landslide at Snohomish County, Washington and the rapid evacuation north of Los Angeles a couple weeks ago (Glendora? I think) show that maybe we have reached the limit of land to develop in some places. There was a book about a decade ago on how most developable land in the US had been developed (unless talking about converting arable flat farmlands into suburbs, but that's another discussion).

So more federal land but I'd prefer more remote wilderness over a new park and visitor center; especially after an area has been repeatedly hit with landslides, .. think there should also be more state and local parks as well for the day-use crowds (will need toilet and water fountains however). Try to tell people they can't develop someplace though ..

Rick Adams
(rickadams100) - M
labels on 03/31/2014 11:31:22 MDT Print View

easy with the "greedy anti-tax" label. I pay over 50% of gross income in taxes, might be 60% but i quit counting at 50% cuz it pisses me off.

the issue for a lot of us is how our tax dollars are largely squandered. throwing more money at one cause or another sounds great, especially when it's somebody elses contribution, but often times the money goes to other things than originally intended.

So, just because somebody doesn't think it's a good idea to give money to the people who they don't trust doesn't make them greedy, or anti-poor people, or anti-environment or anti-whatever. It only means that they believe enough is given to accomplish many good things if used wisely.

people quit listening when the labels and name calling begins. that's why both parties and our gov in general is so utterly useless.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: labels on 03/31/2014 11:47:23 MDT Print View

I used to pay 50% tax

It's not you or me that are the problem, it's the people that pay 15% tax

The people that really get screwed are like the 10 percentile - you make relatively lots of income so lots of opportunity for taxes, you can't afford to pay off the politicians for special tax breaks and subsidies.

None of the criticism of conservatives is aimed at you (at least speaking for myself)

"people quit listening when the labels and name calling begins. that's why both parties and our gov in general is so utterly useless."

good point we all need to appreciate