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Obamacare...the real world
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Rick Adams
(rickadams100) - M
Obamacare...the real world on 03/03/2014 12:12:13 MST Print View

I received the renewal for the health insurance I provide my employees. I pay a portion they pay the rest. Average increase was 44%. Low was 29% and high is 63%. Some of these people will have to drop insurance on themselves or family members. They already had good coverage. Thanks Barry...........

Brian Crain
(brcrain) - F

Locale: So Cal
Re: Obamacare...the real world on 03/03/2014 13:49:02 MST Print View

Harry Reid says you are a liar...

Scott Jones
(Endeavor) - M
Obamacare on 03/03/2014 23:18:08 MST Print View

The correct name is Romney Care and the idea was hatched in the Heritage Foundation a few years back. The Heritage Foundation is a right wing think tank (talk about an oxymoron).

Anyhow Obamacare as you call it is not government health care. You will notice that all the providers are private insurance carriers such as Blue Cross, Blue Shield etc. Like auto insurance (everyone is required to have it by law) the idea is to lower premiums by having a larger insurance pool which means "everyone". I have not yet heard anyone complain about auto insurance and having it.

Anyway, even with this evil Romney Care in place where I work my company managed to replace the old plan with a superior platinum plan at a lower cost. My Deductible went from $5,000 down to $1,000.00 and the benefits were better. My boss had sense enough to actually explore all the different plans out there. By actually looking at the market and seeing what was out there we actually managed to save money. Now the boss was for Romney and against the so called Obamacare which is actually Romney care. Needless to say he even admitted that we got a better deal.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Obamacare on 03/04/2014 06:31:16 MST Print View

I don't know about insurance, but there WAS a letter in my hometown paper the other day complaining about how many thousands of dollars this guy had paid in tickets for not wearing a seatbelt. Wackos are out there...

"A free America doesn’t mean freedom

Twenty-five years ago, I moved from my Johnstown home to the Bible Belt. I purchased a front-bumper license plate that read: “Buckle-up with Jesus.” Over the years, that $5 trinket has cost me more than $5,000 in multiple seat-belt violations, fines and court costs.

I have five full pages on my permanent record. I’m a career, habitual seat-belt offender.

In a free America – free to choose, free to accept or free to decline – we are not free to smoke pot and to not wear a seat belt."

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Obamacare on 03/04/2014 07:51:48 MST Print View

At least if he's not wearing seat belt he'll be able to get health care : )

Ken Miller

Locale: Colorado
Another delay in the works on 03/04/2014 11:13:11 MST Print View

The Hill is reporting another major delay is in the works for a the ACA. Even they characterize it as a political move to dampen the impact on Democrats in the mid term elections.

Thankfully our President has the experience, knowledge and foresight to know what's best for us and can use his power to enforce or enact laws as he sees fit.

In the meantime, the backend of the process is still not complete. No one wants to speak on how many people have actually paid for a policy. Apparently that data is not available....sure!

I do enjoy watching Obama's loyal lemmings progress from blaming Bush for everything to taking responsibility.

The Heritage Foundation and Romney are now the culprits, too funny.

How about the Koch brothers, aren't they pulling the strings.

Man up, the Emperor has no clothes!!

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F

Locale: Washington, DC Area
Re: Another delay in the works on 03/04/2014 13:16:35 MST Print View

Just think if it was actually state-provided health care like he wanted instead of having to cater to the private insurance companies who still need to make money but now also need to actually provide a cost-effective service. Surprisingly, the insurance companies are now realizing that providing the actual service they claimed to "provide" in the past costs more because they're actually forced to spend that money on actual care and not just lining their pockets while kicking the sick (expensive patients) off their plans.

We wouldn't need to be shopping for plans and the premiums would be much lower because everyone would be signed in to one system and able to reap true economies of scale. But of course we needed to let capitalism and the "free-market" work.

Rick Adams
(rickadams100) - M
your kids can stay on...but on 03/04/2014 14:02:55 MST Print View

There are a couple different things happenning with this renewal that are "obamacarisms"

Our group is no longer rated by our groups actual costs but by a regional rating. All other things being equal our costs went up 10% because of this

All of our available programs changed, there are a few positive nuanced improvements. But on the whole the new plans are a step backwards for my folks. The market here is dominated by Kaiser, I personally have the only other option which is equally as ugly. Most of my people will now have what is now called a GOLD program, if they can afford to stay on it.

The giant difference is how children 19+ are handled. They can stay on their parents policy, BUT, the rate for each adult child is determined as if they bought the same policy for themselves. So, employee A has a spouse and 2 college age adult children on his policy. Currently pays $100 per month for the 1st child and 0 for the second. He will now pay $296 each child per month. The $296 jives exactly with the cost of a 21-24 y/o covered individually with the same plan.

So one of the big selling points of the ACA was you could keep your adult children on your policy until they're 26. Technically that is true. The S is going to hit the fan when Mommy and Daddy learn that there is zero cost benefit to keep them on the family policy.

Most small business policies renew June 1 (like ours) or year end. So what I'm seeing here is the first wave of Obamacare's hit on small business policies.

Because of the ever growing cost of healthcare and government's influence over it I decided this morning to freeze our program; continue on for those enrolled, and close future enrollment to all others. I have 25 employees and intend to keep the number way below the magic(bad magic) number of 50.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: your kids can stay on...but on 03/04/2014 14:27:34 MST Print View

that's interesting

the "you can have your kids on your policy" is only advantageous if they can't get their own policy because of pre-existing conditions, but since that exclusion is gone, it doesn't make much difference now

I went to and did an individual plan age 21 - $89 per month, family of 4 - $490, family of 5 - $619 - so to add a fifth person costs $129. That's weird, more expensive to add to my family plan than to just "kick the bird out of the nest".

the "you can have your kids on your policy" was only useful for the couple years before full implementation - at least based on these two cases

Rick Adams
(rickadams100) - M
expectations on 03/04/2014 15:25:05 MST Print View

Just checked the absolute cheapest premium plan offered by Kaiser (small business policies) for a 21 y/o, it is $ has a $5000 deductible before insurance starts to help. Not too practical for a person just starting out.

I think many people with kids believed that their adult children would stay on there policies at a reduced rate, not full bore.I expect some blowback on it. A policy with a more tolerable deductable is $296. I wondered how the young people were going to subsidize older people when they could stay on the folk's policy until 26. Now I know.

Several years ago when my eldest son went to college we bought a basic student policy sold through the school for $150 a semester. Those policies are no longer legal. I guess replaced by $300 a month.

This is going to stress middle class families even more....can't be good for the economy.

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F

Locale: Washington, DC Area
Re: your kids can stay on...but on 03/04/2014 15:34:04 MST Print View

"The market here is dominated by Kaiser, I personally have the only other option which is equally as ugly. "

Unfortunately this is the most critical piece your post as to why your premiums are what they are. Kaiser has long been known to go in, dominate a market push out competitors, overcharge and under deliver... The walmart of healthcare. The fact that you only have one other possible option to go to speaks to the lack of supply which enables them to also overcharge. Without any real meaningful and substantial competition Kaiser can pretty much run up the price on you.

Not to mention that they basically force you to go in network and only work with Kaiser providers further creating a monopoly on the care that you receive

Hk Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
State of America Re: Re: your kids can stay on...but on 03/04/2014 16:14:34 MST Print View

… dominate a market push out competitors, overcharge and under deliver

A number of markets (i.e. zip codes or counties) with one or two insurers are seeing higher prices vs. other markets with several competitors, which are seeing lower (not eligible for ACA myself, more an academic pursuit). Also included is the amount of claims filed. So healthy zip codes with ski areas are seeing higher premiums since there are more accidents (this is all from business articles - I imagine less active US zip codes probably have more medical bills covered by Medicare and/or Medicaid since it will be a while before the first granny breaks her hip on the snowboard half pipe). Same as auto insurance when I asked my insurer why my rate doubled when moving to a neighboring county (before I flipped and rolled that 4WD, that is…). The insurer told me the accident rate for that county was high.

Semi-related, visiting a US dentist recently, the exam/cleaning room is now like a multi-bay assembly line with no separation where neighboring patient consultations could be overheard -- since there were no walls. Nice to know my chompers are in very good shape vs the rest of the city's btw, … but how efficient do we need to be squeezing every penny out for shareholders?

ed: emph/wc/br

Edited by hknewman on 03/04/2014 20:19:57 MST.

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F

Locale: Washington, DC Area
Re: State of America Re: Re: your kids can stay on...but on 03/04/2014 16:26:02 MST Print View

The fewer options have to Schopenhauer from on the exchanges the higher your premiums will be due to less competition. This article basically supports this idea.

The states which had the lowest premiums had an average of 8 exchanges to shop from while the states with the highest rates had an average or 3. That's not a coincidence. Neither is the fact that most of the states with the highest premiums are those who chose not to participate in the federal exchange program or did so only late in the game, under duress which led to less competition because smaller insurers couldn't get their act together in enough time to participate, effectively shutting them out. They didn't have a cadre of 100 lawyers able to ensure compliance unlike the larger companies; while also trying to provide actual coverage on a local level.

Rates also vary by the amount of people participating in order to spread the cost, it's again no coincidence that in areas where there is greater population density such as Texas and California, on average the rates are lower per individual or family whereas in places such as Wyoming they are higher

Edited by mak52580 on 03/04/2014 16:29:47 MST.

Rick Adams
(rickadams100) - M
insurers on 03/04/2014 16:48:26 MST Print View

I'm sitting in Napa CA and the region as far as rating is concerned is North/East SF bay area. Several hundred thousand people at least. We have several insurers to choose from but relativily few providers. Most of the non Kaiser doctors work for one of two decent size medical groups. But, the vast majority of the business goes to Kaiser.

One of the consequences of the ACA, and earlier government intrusions, is that the day when a doctor could hang a shingle has largely past. There are simply too many regulations, lawyers and uncertainty to risk going it alone. Hence, a few large providers with little incentive to be price competitive and to few reasons to keep medically unneccessary procedures to a minimum.

Scott Jones
(Endeavor) - M
Obamacare on 03/04/2014 23:18:54 MST Print View

Hey Ken,

Perhaps you should read the Forbes article. Yep, the Heritage Foundation promoted the the idea of the individual mandate.

Obamacare and the Heritage Foundatin

Read it and weep.

Edited by Endeavor on 03/04/2014 23:23:13 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Obamacare on 03/05/2014 08:18:55 MST Print View

One thing interesting about that Forbes article is that Gingrich supported the individual mandate as a tactic to defeat Hillarycare.

He was so sincere at the time when he said the individual mandate was such a great idea : )

Hmmm, I wonder if everything he says is just a political tactic?

What about Paul Ryan?

Glenn S

Locale: Snowhere, MN
Re: Obamacare on 03/05/2014 09:01:10 MST Print View

"Like auto insurance (everyone is required to have it by law)"

Only people who choose to become licensed to operate a motorized vehicle on a public roadway, and then proceed to do so, are required to obtain auto insurance. That's a pretty defining requisite, is voluntary, and it certainly isn't "everyone".

So what is the defining requisite that we voluntarily chose to partake in that nessecitates the need for health insurance?

Also, I can't speak for all states, but pretty sure the only required auto insurance, doesn't cover you, just the damage you cause to somebody else.

Edited by Glenn64 on 03/05/2014 09:19:36 MST.

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F

Locale: Washington, DC Area
Re: Re: Obamacare on 03/05/2014 09:19:22 MST Print View

And what happens if something unexpectedly happens to you and you "choose" not to have health insurance? Can I "choose" not to have to cover you and your bills? Can I tell my insurance company that I "choose" not to pay my now higher premiums because they need to cover your costs which you now can't pay? Can I tell the doctor or emergency room that I "choose" not to pay the higher price for the treatment that I need as a paying customer because I don't want them to pass your uncovered costs onto me?

To think you don't/won't need it is naive.

Edited by mak52580 on 03/05/2014 09:37:20 MST.

Glenn S

Locale: Snowhere, MN
Re: Re: Re: Obamacare on 03/05/2014 09:30:50 MST Print View

My argument? The claim was made that ACA is just like auto insurance, I pointed out how it is not, and posed the question as to what made them alike. Calling me naive doesn't answer the question.

And you're not the paying customer, the person without insurance would be. You'd be an insurance benefactor.

Edited by Glenn64 on 03/05/2014 09:34:59 MST.

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F

Locale: Washington, DC Area
Re: Re: Re: Re: Obamacare on 03/05/2014 09:36:38 MST Print View

Sorry I meant no offense, I was making a general comment. I think we're actually making the same argument... that you can't just choose or make a conscious decision to use health insurance as you can with driving a motor vehicle. Life is just not that predictable.

Hence, the need for penalties up front for not enrolling since at some point you'll likely need it and if you don't have it others (responsible, paying customers) will be stuck holding your bill.