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Maia
(maia) - MLife

Locale: Rocky Mountains
ISPO 2014, Munich on 02/25/2014 21:01:07 MST Print View

Companion forum thread to:

ISPO 2014, Munich

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Interesting fabrics on 02/25/2014 22:09:55 MST Print View

Definitely getting interesting. Its nice these days to see so many high tech competitors to the likes of Gore.

Kevin Sawchuk
(ksawchuk) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Northern California
Re: ISPO 2014, Munich on 02/26/2014 10:19:45 MST Print View

If anyone from Gore is listening:

Please improve your products and debate the relative merits of testing standards instead of using heavy handed legal techniques to improve your market share and reduce choice.

Scott Emmens
(multisportscott) - M
Thank you on 02/26/2014 13:22:20 MST Print View

This is by far the most interesting and informative article I have read for sometime on BPL! Thanks.
As a fabric geek who works in the industry (in a bubble in New Zealand :-)) this was at times eye opening, keep up the good work. Thanks again Scott

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Re: ISPO 2014, Munich on 02/26/2014 13:33:43 MST Print View

If the trend is to step away from down fill, (due to less people eating geese), there still has to be a significant improvement in bags before all of these fancy new jacket hyped lofting material goes into a bag.

Not mentioned in any of these new techs is the ability to withstand the multiple compression and stuffing into compression sacks as what bags go through.

The likely loss of loft in any of these fabrics is probably nowhere near what it needs to be in order to be a replacement for down in sleeping bags.

At least it's a start.

Edited by awsorensen on 02/26/2014 13:34:29 MST.

Robert Burrell
(Buzz) - F - M
Re: Fabrics on 02/26/2014 16:22:25 MST Print View

Please keep geeking out - good reading!

I've recently begun serious investigation of WP/B fabrics and technology, and have learned this:

1) My knowledge of the subject matter has skyrocketed from 2% to about 10%
2) Of the remaining 90%, about 2/3 of it is smoke and mirrors
3) Gore led the way with a powerful marketing story, and everyone else is following that model - there's a lot less difference between a branded fabric and an unbranded fabric than you are led to believe
4) One can't even compare specs, because there are dozens of tests, and manufacturers use whatever test that makes there product look good
5) As everyone hopefully knows by now, the mere existence of any "waterproof and breathable" fabric is entirely dependent on how one defines that term
6) Ventilation, the weather, and how you use the final product has FAR more to do with performance than the fabric itself.

Onward!

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Munich on 02/26/2014 17:29:15 MST Print View

Not bored in least, Matthew, but then again, I'm a MYOG geek too. So thank you, and looking forward to the next article.
The Thinsulate featherless sounds worth a peek. Too bad one can't obtain a sample large enough to make a quilt or bag.
Wonder what happens if one goes into these shows with a mini precision hang scale concealed on their person. Would someone yell 'SWARM!' and put you on the deck.

I'm not too big on GTX either. Used a 20 oz 3 layer GTX top from Beans for years before switching to Patagonia stuff and being dry backpacking in the rain for the first time. Was out walking the Shelties above the inlet in Twin Lakes, CO, one day and came upon a crowd of racers descending from Hope Pass. Said hello to the person in charge, who responded, "I AM Goretex." Just that, no more (huh?) until we got talking. GTX people are kind of funny that way, but kind of funny beats openly hostile. If their patents are being infringed, they should have the right to seek redress.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
mesmerizing on 02/26/2014 21:57:07 MST Print View

i dont usually like these reports on trade shows as they are usually RAH RAH RAH NEW SHINY GEAR cheerleading articles

but i found the wit and backstory of this one absolutely mesmerizing

interesting that dead bird is going with toray, i suspect they are trying to get away from some of the "brand name" fabric strangleholds, like they did going with their own coreloft (instead of primaloft) and fortius (replacing polartech powershield)

also toray is a chinese company and it might make sense for them to have their materials produced in asia where it seems like quite a few of their goods are now made

now if all these trade show reports were like this

;)

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Re: mesmerizing on 02/27/2014 03:30:48 MST Print View

TORAY is a Japanese textile and plastics conglomerate and the worlds largest producer of Carbon Fiber.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: mesmerizing on 02/27/2014 08:53:05 MST Print View

hmmm ... i stand corrected ... i always thought it was chinese as much of the stuff is produced in asia, and they have chinese subsidiaries manufacturing fabrics

http://www.toray.com/globalnetwork/businesses/fiber/fib_002.html

regardless it seems that most of their production is on that side of the pond, so it may make sense for a company whose goods are made in china/bangledesh/etc ... to source fabrics on that side of the pacific

;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 02/27/2014 08:59:35 MST.

Matthew Pullan
(Skyaddict) - F

Locale: Steiermark
Thanks for all the positive feedback. on 03/02/2014 12:52:57 MST Print View

Hi all,
thanks for all the positive comments here in the thread, it's nice to know you're all finding the article as interesting to read as it was to write. This was my first outdoor show, so I was really just a curious amateur when I got there; but I can tell you, just one of these shows is a big eye opener. Perhaps I can provide a little more detail to some of the issues raised:

>Not mentioned in any of these new techs is the ability to withstand the multiple >compression and stuffing into compression sacks as what bags go through.

The rep I talked to on the Thinsulate stand definitely said that Thinsulate Featherless is infinitely compressible; make of that what you will. As for the Primaloft Down Blend, you are certainly not the only one expressing grave misgivings as to the ultimate longevity of this product Aaron.

>Wonder what happens if one goes into these shows with a mini precision hang scale >concealed on their person. Would someone yell 'SWARM!' and put you on the deck.

No excuses: as an MYOGer I really should have taken a set of scales. I'm also kicking myself for not getting a picture of the Thinsulate Featherless. To be honest, I got the impression it was just a rebranding exercise, with Thinsulate insulation torn up in a big glass jar instead of on the roll, but I may be wrong.

>interesting that dead bird is going with toray, i suspect they are trying to get >away from some of the "brand name" fabric strangleholds, like they did going with >their own coreloft (instead of primaloft) and fortius (replacing polartech >powershield)

Funny you should mention that Eric, part two will feature another manufacturer who has worked hard to get away from 'Brand' names.

There was lots more at ISPO 2014 I could have written about, this for instance:

Montane Primino

I left it out because it's not really ultralight, but Montane are bringing out a line of wool polyester clothing. As I'm sure you are all aware, this another can of worms one could easily delve into. It comes on the back of the new wool polyester 'performance' range from smartwool. My mum used to swear by wool polyester blends, and she's 85. Don't get me wrong, I like merino wool, partly because I could pick up 'fashion' merino wool tops for just £6 in shops like TK MAXX, and when they wore out after a few months, well who cares. But eventually I had to face the truth: they just would not dry on my back. Now we see polyester creeping back in under the guise of 'innovation'.
Here are a couple of photos from Formosa's stand. They were not of a high enough quality for the main article:

Formosa 5d

This was the sign announcing the arrival of 5 denier taffeta to the world. It was next to this jacket:

Formosa Jacket

When I asked about the jacket they said it was made of 7d not 5d. Don't ask me why, but I just get a funny feeling that Formosa are who TiGoat gets his taffeta from. Well, I hope you enjoy parts 2 and 3 just as much. They get progressively longer and longer. Part 3 is about 50MB.
Cheers
Matt

Edited by Skyaddict on 03/02/2014 12:56:10 MST.

Philip Bichard
(PXB) - MLife
5 denier FTW on 03/03/2014 06:28:52 MST Print View

"...customers can enjoy fun and unparalleled exceptionality." Sign me up!

mori costantino
(mori) - MLife

Locale: urban urbane
5d vs 7d on 03/05/2014 11:12:35 MST Print View

Isn't Mountain Hardware's Ghost Whisperer fabric 7d?

mori costantino
(mori) - MLife

Locale: urban urbane
5d vs 7d on 03/05/2014 11:18:16 MST Print View

Answer my own question:
The MTN HDW website says the fabric is 7dx10d.
Numbers. Chasing numbers..........

ps looking forward to the next Ispo articles!