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Breathability Ratings for eVent vs. DWR Silnylon?
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Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: DWR is DWR on 02/19/2014 15:03:40 MST Print View

True but still there is a difference: with the BHA-membrane the interior is coated while the classic way is on top of a fabric where it is exposed to outside influences and thus is far more easily overwhelmed and/or abraded (and not broken down as you suggest).

The instructions to wash frequently is because of the exterior DWR and not the interior one.

Edited by Woubeir on 02/19/2014 15:06:21 MST.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Re: Natick Chart on 02/19/2014 16:58:37 MST Print View

http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf

hwc 1954
(wcollings) - M
Is it? on 02/19/2014 17:10:58 MST Print View

>> The instructions to wash frequently is because of the exterior DWR and not the interior one.

Is it?

I mean, sure, washing/heating/restoring the DWR treatment is a good thing for all jackets. But, why does eVent seem to make SUCH a big deal of it. I mean, there were no admonitions with my Gore-Tex ProShell jacket that I had to wash it frequently or it would not longer be waterproof.

It just raises a red flag in my mind. Is there something about eVent that makes it particularly prone to leaking if the outer fabric wets out? Theoretically, a membrane jacket should still be waterproof, no matter what. If I have to rely on the DWR to keep water out, I might as well wear my Houdini...

steven franchuk
(Surf)
Re: Re: eVent durability? on 02/20/2014 00:45:00 MST Print View

"I have no personal experience with Event, but I recently came across the following thread on the UKClimbing website: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=578102. "

I have seen similar post including a video. In the video the 6 month old Event jacket completely wetted out in what appeared to be a moderate rain. My 20 year old Gortex jacket never wetted out like his did. It was also wetting out in areas that don't get a lot of friction or abrasion In the video he also said every breathable jacket he has tried did this

I suspect that somehow people are contaminating the fabric without knowing it. If you look at the Event care instructions they say not to use fabric softeners. i recently remembered a news article about fabric softeners. Fabric softeners contain oils that stay on the fabric. This reduces static problems and makes the fabric feel softer.

In the news article the washer had a smell problems. The machine looked fine but when the machine was disassembled there was a thick coating a fabric softer residue everywhere. In some places it had to be removed with a putty knife. I have also seen post about this online.

So if your machine has a heavy coating in the places you cannot see washing a event jacket in the machine may be a bad idea. the softener in the machine may come off and coat the event jacket even if you didn't put fabric softener in with the event jacket.

Also in your link you will see people posting that they have washed and reapplied DWR frequently and it still doesn't hold up. Perhaps it is possible to over apply DWr and or overwash the garment?

Anyway if you are having issues with wetting out and washing and applying DWR aren't working try the dry cleaners. I never use fabric softener in my machine and the DWR seems to hold up well.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Is it? on 02/20/2014 03:07:07 MST Print View

The difference according to me is that eVent is really microporous and most are not. Added by the fact that the ePTFE-layer in itself isn't oleophobic, but needs an added coating that is oleophobic (but by that way also more vunerable). The fact that there were no problems with your GTX Pro Shell, may only be because Gore is in the business for much, much longer. They had similar problems the first decade or so, but managed to solve it. In fact, BHA is/was probably aware of that and after the first patent followed another.
But I admit that writing that the washing instructions were only meant for the exterior and not the interior, was incorrect. Even with the oleophobic coating, oils and other kinds of dirt can penetrate the BHA-membrane. But here starts the difference according to me. With GTX Gen. 1 there was no oleophobic coating so the bonding between the contaminants and the membrane was pretty strong. With the BHA-membrane there's still contamination possible, but the bonding is less strong. So, while washing a GTX Gen. 1 garment might not have given the desired result (100 % waterproof), chances with the BHA-membrane are much higher.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: eVent durability? on 02/20/2014 08:09:13 MST Print View

My 2.5 layer eVent degraded at shoulders and back of neck - I never washed it - must have been body oils/sweat

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Breathability Ratings for eVent vs. DWR Silnylon on 02/22/2014 17:29:53 MST Print View

Max,
You lost me a bit with your OP.
We know eVent is a WPB, not just a DWR. The specs seem to vary though from manufacturer to manufacturer. That's clear from looking at the articles just on this site.

But not sure what you mean by 'DWR Silnylon.'
You did mention the MLD bivy made of Pertex 10 denier Endurance.
Don't believe that is a silnylon in the sense that silnylon usually refers to nylon with a waterproof silicone coating on both sides. Good qaulity sils run at least 3000mm HH. Pertex claims Endurance, on the other hand, has a HH of 1000mm. http://pertex.com/fabrics/endurance/
That is not sufficient to be relied upon for waterproofness like that provided by the better silnylons, or to meet requirements for military use.

1.1 oz nylon is also readily obtainable form many suppliers like OWF and Quest with a light silicone coating that makes it DWR, but not waterproof, and probably less than 1000mm HH.

So I interpreted your post to be looking for breathability specs for nylon with a silicone based DWR treatment; specifically, like the better ones such as Endurance.
I would like to know that too, especially for selecting a windshirt fabric, for example.

I think Richard may have tested some of the DWR 1.1 oz nylons in his epic posts.
But most of those were for HH, not breathability as I recall.
Still, that might be a good place to look first.