Montana Mountain Man Arrested For Fishing Without A License (or was it taking the King's deer?) Because He Was Hungry.
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jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: budgets on 02/13/2014 17:10:03 MST Print View

I'm afraid we don't probably disagree too much. This Koombayah stuff is going to make me throw up : )

"Our military and it's men (and women) are used as props."

Like the guy that served 10 "tours" in Afganistan and finally got horribly injured. Received most aplause at state of the union. Why the hell did we put him in there for so many "tours"??? And why the euphomism "tours"???

"Any private executive who offered that the best they could do was being done would likely be terminated"

Yeah, but if the government expense stays the same as percent of GDP then it's probably not a crisis. The annual deficit is dropping. Was $1.4T. $500B in most recent year. Probably much less in next year. We're finally getting out of the two wars. Economy is improving. Biggest crisis is the ever increasing cost for health care but (surprisingly?) Obamacare has helped some.

"I'm pretty certain that the R's would spend as much as the D's."

Clinton - balanced budget with a lot of influence from R congress
Bush - two wars not paid for, Medicare Prescription not paid for, tax cuts (primarily for rich people) not paid for, financial collapse (we can lay some blame on Clinton for that)
Obama - two wars ended, some of the Medicare prescription that wasn't paid for got funded, tax cuts (for rich people) expired, economy much improved

The data says Rs spend much more than Ds

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Jerry on 02/13/2014 18:43:22 MST Print View

"In my world, I sell to many government agencies. At the end of every budget year they scramble to buy things they don't really need because if don't their budget will be cut for the next budget year."


Very true and very wrong.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
On what planet? on 02/13/2014 19:08:26 MST Print View

If someone knows of a government agency that actually has money to buy crap, please let me know so I can put in for a transfer.

Must be nice.

Brian Crain
(brcrain) - F

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: budgets on 02/13/2014 23:14:41 MST Print View

"Obama - two wars ended, some of the Medicare prescription that wasn't paid for got funded, tax cuts (for rich people) expired, economy much improved"

Really? You think we are on the patch to glory under this administration? /boggle

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Re: Re: budgets on 02/13/2014 23:57:09 MST Print View

>Really? You think we are on the patch to glory under this administration? /boggle
+1

Brawny, its got electrolytes.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: budgets on 02/14/2014 00:04:38 MST Print View

I don't know that we're on the path to glory, but the budget deficit is way down which is all I was talking about.

Deficit for 2014 is projected to be $300B or something, down from the $1,400B peak.

At some point it will become ludicrous for the Rs to talk about how the Ds don't want to do anything about the deficit : )

Ken Miller
(Powderpiggy)

Locale: Colorado
Let's not keep it too simple on 02/14/2014 08:49:18 MST Print View

If you consider the "deficit" to be the annual difference between tax receipts and expenditures then all praise to Obama. Except of course if you look at actual amount of the deficit compare that to historical amounts and you discount the "percentage reduction" argument. The percentage reduction argument fails to recognize the unprecedented, enormous, humongous denominator of $1,400,000,000,000.00 of single year "deficit" spending.

And yes, I know, it's Bush's fault. Although one might recall that the last Republican majority in both houses and the white house had a whooping $160,000,000,000.00 planned annual deficit based on an actual budget.

Ah to only have Clinton back, I mean Bubba not Hillary. When's the last time the Obama administration did an annual budget. I know, not really necessary, it's cumbersome, time consuming and let's face John Q Public thinks it messy.

So in the meantime, let's keep pumping the ole Federal Reserve, payoff our donors and find some new special interest to hand out favors to so they can like us. Just today, the administration said it was unfair, inequitable for Olympian medal winners to pay taxes on the winnings. A couple more hundred pages to the monstrous tax code. Maybe they can get the Olympians to sign up for ObamaCare and send out some cool tweets on how great to be part of the "community".

In the mean time, the actual debt is 1.5 times our nation GDP. Not too bad if your a country by the Mediterranean Sea with 1 in 3 workers government employees. Of course your sovereignty is a bit diluted with so many rules coming down from Brussels. Kinda hard to get those "good ole middle class manufacturing jobs" back in the USA when your major competitor is also your banker.

Or as Pelosi said, we can just free ourselves from "job lock". Everybody can write poetry, compose songs, and paint while waiting in line to see the doctor.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Let's not keep it too simple on 02/14/2014 10:36:19 MST Print View

According to wikipedia "National Debt of the United States", "On December 12, 2013, debt held by the public was approximately $12.312 trillion or about 73% of Q3 2013 GDP"

So it's 73% not 1.5 times

And 73% isn't great, but no crisis. We should, over time, reduce that.

"If you consider the "deficit" to be the annual difference between tax receipts and expenditures then all praise to Obama."

That is the definition of deficit so glad to see you've changed your mind and are now praising Obama : )

Brian Crain
(brcrain) - F

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: the truth on 02/14/2014 10:39:32 MST Print View

The defecit is one thing but it is compltely out of whack. Entitlement spending has increased from about five percent of all government spending in 1900 to 45 percent of all government spending, federal, state, and local, in 2010 - http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/entitlement_spending ...and we don't have numbers for the last couple of years in which it has grown exponentially.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Re: Re: budgets on 02/14/2014 10:54:21 MST Print View

>>> Like the guy that served 10 "tours" in Afganistan [sic] and finally got horribly injured. Received most aplause [sic] at state of the union. Why the hell did we put him in there for so many "tours"??? And why the euphomism [sic] "tours"???


Huh? You lost mere there with the bit about "euphemisms", jerry. What euphemism? It's a 'tour of duty' in military parlance.

Edited by acrosome on 02/14/2014 10:59:04 MST.

Rick Adams
(rickadams100) - M
economy on 02/14/2014 10:57:51 MST Print View

Ian, to be clear I'm not saying every goverment agency practices such budget shenanigans. I only go by 1st hand experience. In the past 2 years I have run into this with a state vets home, state hospital(mental), 2 school districts and one water district. I'm sure other agencies could use those funds to provide needed basic services.

Jerry, the current economy sucks. It would suck even if Obama was not in office, it's just worse with him. The unintended consequences of his policies hurt regular people. He is not the devil or a commie or whatever. He is just not near as wise as he is alledgedly bright. His style of leadership sucks too. I'm a target of his class warfare and am damn tired of it. I employ 25 people and pay way more in all the assorted taxes than I take home. I don't know your background, but I assure you the amount of taxes, fees and mandates levied on employers and business's is staggering. But I don't pay my fair share, really? And talking points charts support an agenda, they are not all inclusive.

I think our economy is in a long term malaise, it goes up or down a little based on a lot of things: currency devaluation, unnaturally low interest rates (which will blow a giant hole in the fed budget if it ever returns to historic norms), easy credit, stimulus programs and a host of other things. All subject to manipulation by politicians. You have to go back decades to find consistent wage growth for the american people, I would argue we have been in a funk since then. And raising minimum wage will not make a positive difference (see unintended consequences). I suspect that the timing is related to the shift from a manufacturing economy to a services one, and further when financial services became a bigger part of it.

As a population we need to realize that our politicians, pundits and experts are not smarter than an average person, they just think they are, and since we can't imagine tidy solutions, we want and need to believe they have them. Many on this forum are smarter than the people we elect,you included even though we see the world differently. The big scary problems of the world are in fact big and scary and no matter what the pols say, there is no solution that won't hurt us all alot. The best they can do, the D's and the R's,is to keep the fraud going.

Going snow backpacking in a couple days to keep the blood from shooting out my eyes.

Rick

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: the truth on 02/14/2014 10:59:21 MST Print View

There were big increases in "entitlement spending" after 1930. Up to the 1970s or so.

"and we don't have numbers for the last couple of years in which it has grown exponentially."

That's weird. I had the idea that the dysfunctional congress has passed very little so there wouldn't be any huge increase or decrease in "entitlement spending". Do you believe there's a boogy man under your bed?

"entitlement spending" is one of those focus group tested phrases designed to convince people to be against programs for average people

the biggest "entitlement spending" is social security and medicare, almost half the federal budget. And they, especially Medicare, are increasing with time. I'm about ready to start getting these. I think it reasonable to discuss whether it makes sense to spend such a large amount. And why is is that you tax younger people that are struggling to get by and give this to affluent retired people (like myself, relatively speaking).

You get somewhere between $10,000 and $30,000 a year in social security, depending on how much you made when you worked. Maybe they should reduce the maximum amount to $20,000 or $10,000?

That would be better than what some people have proposed, to "means test it". Gradually, more an more people would have too much income and no longer qualify, so social security would become a "welfare" for poor people, and would gradually be squeezed less and less. I think this is just a "poison pill" to eventually kill it or at least "reduce it to the size of a bathtub".

Maybe we should go back to Koom-by-yah?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: budgets on 02/14/2014 11:04:11 MST Print View

"Huh? You lost mere there with the bit about "euphemisms", jerry. What euphemism? It's a 'tour of duty' in military parlance."

Yeah, I know

But to us non military people it seems not as bad

Should be called "time in hell", or "fighting", or "warfare", or something

Just making humor - my point is people shouldn't be sent for 10 tours until badly injured. And all the apparently un-injured probably have PTSD.

Sean Heenan
(roadster1) - M

Locale: Southeast mountains
debt on 02/14/2014 11:14:37 MST Print View

Unfortunately the public debt is about 4.5 trillion short the difference is held by intergovernmental agencies ie the fed. Making the debt 17 trillion and growing. This is a huge drag on the economy.

Brian Crain
(brcrain) - F

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: the truth on 02/14/2014 11:14:54 MST Print View

"That's weird. I had the idea that the dysfunctional congress has passed very little so there wouldn't be any huge increase or decrease in "entitlement spending". Do you believe there's a boogy man under your bed?"

Ah, typcial liberal - I disagree or challenge your #s so I'm a nutjob in a tinfoil hat? Have a nice day.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: economy on 02/14/2014 11:18:28 MST Print View

"The unintended consequences of his policies hurt regular people"

He hasn't passed any policies. The congress is violently against anything he proposes.

The only thing passed is Obamacare. I don't think that has had huge effect on economy.

Maybe some of the problem with the economy is all those trade treaties that resulted in huge trade imbalance with China, India, and other countries. That is an accumulation from every president from Reagan to Obama.

And because we have "the best government money can buy" there are enumerable loopholes that allow a few people to pay less taxes and get subsidies, but make it more complicated for the rest.

"You have to go back decades to find consistent wage growth for the american people, I would argue we have been in a funk since then" - definitly!!! I think we agree.

"I'm a target of his class warfare and am damn tired of it. I employ 25 people and pay way more in all the assorted taxes than I take home." You have to be super wealthy or be a big corporation like GE or an oil company to benefit from this system.

Obama is not your enemy.

Citizen's United - that should be the target of all of our wrath.

Rick Adams
(rickadams100) - M
humor on 02/14/2014 11:19:01 MST Print View

the "tour" quip is kind of cute.....wondered about that myself. Deployment sounds more clinical.

10 tours is abusive. My boy has had 3 deployment in 5 years, since he is AF they are shorter and for most a lot less stressful than for combat troops. Though he has seen some disturbing things.

At some point our leaders will hopefully learn that leapards don't change their spots. The Islamists are supported by many in those countries and we are not going to win hearts and minds. Particularly when we have been in country so long and good reasons aside, killing the sons, fathers, husbands of that/those countries.

When an act of war or terrorism is executed against us we should destroy the perpetrator and go home. Every time they threaten do it again. They will eventually learn.

Rick Adams
(rickadams100) - M
Obamacare on 02/14/2014 11:21:05 MST Print View

Obamacare is a huge drag on the economy. It's another of those unintended consequence things. Nothing happens in a vaccum.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the truth on 02/14/2014 11:25:26 MST Print View

"Ah, typcial liberal - I disagree or challenge your #s so I'm a nutjob in a tinfoil hat? Have a nice day."

Okay, sorry about the boogyman under the bed comment.

You said entitlement spending increased exponentially the last few years and didn't give any numbers or anything. It does seem like that's sort of a scare tactic.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Obamacare on 02/14/2014 11:29:37 MST Print View

"Obamacare is a huge drag on the economy. It's another of those unintended consequence things. Nothing happens in a vaccum."

I haven't read any facts or numbers to back that up.

Like the tea partiers said that millions of jobs would be lost. The CBO said 2.3 million people would quit their job because they can get healthcare without having that particular job. But those people will go on to do other things. And the 2.3 million jobs won't dissappear, they'll have to hire other people. I don't see any huge economic effect.