Forum Index » General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion » Packing with Dogs


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Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: tips on 02/18/2014 13:13:31 MST Print View

"I agree that sometimes an e collar is necessary, say for some working dogs and such, but an e collar is known as negative reinforcement training, whereas training without one is positive reinforcement training. I choose to train my dog in the positive reinforcement category - he wants to please me, so he does what I ask and he is rewarded for it."

Really ..... must ..... resist ...... responding .....

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
boots must always be available on 02/18/2014 16:04:57 MST Print View

No respect

Edited by tchilds on 02/19/2014 07:45:21 MST.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
C'mon Doug....you know you wanna... on 02/18/2014 17:03:33 MST Print View

As for Troy...must be nice to be an absolute expert on the ONLY correct way to create a happy and safe backpacking dog.

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
no judgement on 02/18/2014 17:05:39 MST Print View

.

Edited by tchilds on 02/19/2014 07:47:09 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: C'mon Doug....you know you wanna... on 02/18/2014 17:14:26 MST Print View

"C'mon Doug....you know you wanna..."

You're just making it too easy now....

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
have fun on 02/18/2014 17:15:34 MST Print View

haha

People just need to obey laws of trails and they'll be fine. Its that simple. Have fun with dogs and please keep them out of my camp.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: boots must always be available on 02/18/2014 17:29:47 MST Print View

"E collars are only used when the dog is happy. They are only used to reinforce positive behavior. I suggest you take a psychology 101 course to learn the definitions of positive and negative reinforcement before you claim to know what you are saying. Your definitions are not even correct as far as I can tell."

Nothing personal Troy, but I think you're the one a bit confused. In fact, I think you're confusing the term 'positive reinforcement' with 'positive punishment.' When the owner presses the collar button to give his/her dog a stimulation, that is referred to as positive punishment. When the pup then reacts appropriately and the collar stimulation is stopped, that's referred to as negative reinforcement.

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
splitting dog hairs on 02/18/2014 17:32:57 MST Print View

...

Edited by tchilds on 02/19/2014 07:46:19 MST.

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
my dangerous dog on 02/18/2014 18:22:38 MST Print View

Never mind then

Edited by tchilds on 02/19/2014 07:39:53 MST.

Will Elliott
(elliott.will) - F

Locale: Juneau, AK
Experts on 02/18/2014 22:41:48 MST Print View

Check out sleddogcentral.com and forums on lgds (livestock guardian dogs) for more info on what works for working animals.

Mark Ries
(mtmnmark) - M

Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Dog Training on 02/18/2014 22:45:16 MST Print View

Doug is right push the button bad thing starts positive punishment let off the button bad thing ends negative reinforcement. Its not splitting hairs, everything Doug said is fact.I can pull out several books give you the authors name book name and page number. Now I would like to hear how positive reinforcement is done with an e-collar? Hows that work Troy? I also don't believe that any good trainer will rate any animal 100% cause Any good trainer knows that they didn't do a perfect job training the animal. No trainer is perfect and no training method is perfect. The thing that makes an E-coller effective is you can correct a behavior at a distance and the dog don't really know who did it so there's no hard feelings. I also don't believe a dog really wants to please anybody They just do things to get the good things to start and hopefully not end and have the bad things not start and end quick of they do. If my dogs wanted to please me I'd be getting the belly rubs.

Will Elliott
(elliott.will) - F

Locale: Juneau, AK
Q on 02/18/2014 23:53:45 MST Print View

1) Check out this book on hiking 800 miles with the dog:

http://www.dupress.duq.edu/products/other8-paper

Maybe something helpful there.

2) As for falling off cliffs and bears and the like-- are you saying there are people out there walking their dogs on a leash in the woods? Like they were on a city sidewalk?

3) Troy: what kind of dog were you packrafting with, what kind of water, and what did you do about the spray skirt?

Edited by elliott.will on 02/19/2014 00:46:36 MST.

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
pack rafting on 02/19/2014 05:18:41 MST Print View

...

Edited by tchilds on 02/19/2014 07:48:04 MST.

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
time on 02/19/2014 05:25:24 MST Print View

...

Edited by tchilds on 02/19/2014 07:49:04 MST.

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
Good luck on 02/19/2014 05:50:48 MST Print View

Good luck and be safe out there with the bear food and horse spookers.

Edited by tchilds on 02/19/2014 07:50:34 MST.

Mark Ries
(mtmnmark) - M

Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Re: nobody wants to run across this on 02/19/2014 07:08:38 MST Print View

Edit: Do not feed

Trace Richardson
(tracedef) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Really? on 02/19/2014 07:48:10 MST Print View

This well intentioned thread went all kinds of crazy just like that. YIKES.

Edited by tracedef on 02/19/2014 07:53:17 MST.

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
sry on 02/19/2014 07:54:44 MST Print View

Yeh it's not really my thing to post online and I live for solitude. Don't know why I think I can help anyone lol.

Have fun guys and be careful out there. Most dogs will endanger your life or the lives if others at some point so keep that in mind.

Enjoy the internet. I'm going to go work with my dogs instead lol.

Edited by tchilds on 02/19/2014 08:01:05 MST.

Matthew Helmuth
(matthewhelmuth) - F

Locale: Cascade Siskiyou National Monument
Re: Packing with Dogs on 03/01/2014 19:14:55 MST Print View

Wow -- this thread certainly did grow legs!

Thanks to all of you for your input -- I wasn't necessarily "encouraged" to take Lizzie but after weighing all of the admonitions for and against taking her with us I opted to adjust the route some and take her.

We'd been planning to do a section of the AT but in order to avoid traffic we took the suggestion of a forum member and visited the Pisgah National Forest just outside of Asheville. We were five in number, and my girlfriend is seven months pregnant, so we hiked in, set up camp, and day hiked from there to keep it easy on ourselves.

I think it was a perfect first trip for Lizzie: it was a low traffic area (except for the Boy Scouts who absolutely LOVED Lizzie) compared to the AT and we were able to keep mileage relatively low.

We did have her wear her new pack the whole time, but left it empty in the interest of her puppy bones. We wanted her to get used to wearing it while hiking about. We also split the days roughly in half off-leash and on, and when she was on leash she was just fine staying in a column.

It was most definitely an enlightening experience: we learned her strengths and also her many weaknesses as a wilderness dog. She's predisposed to staying with us, never wandering more than 20 yards or so, and excellent about preferring us to other hikers (though she did follow a group of boisterous women up another trail the first morning), and until the very last day was excellent about not approaching other hikers. She learned after the third foot-bridge to cross them very slowly and cautiously. She has, though, demonstrated what many have said is a classic hound's trait: a propensity for completely ignoring anything we say or do except when we leave. We definitely need to work on recall, and also on getting her not to eat poop.

Anyhow -- thanks again for all your thoughtful responses. Here's Lizzie at lunch on day one. She'd never walked that far in her puppy life.

Lizzie zonked after day one.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Packing with Dogs on 03/02/2014 08:44:51 MST Print View

Now that's awesome!! Sounds like the perfect learning/training trip!! Just keep doing that over and over the first year or so, keep up the training, keep the mileage really low and easy, and you'll have an awesome trail dog!

I really really enjoy watching my pup on hikes...it gives me such joy to watch him simply being a dog, smelling things, peeing on things, running around in ways he doesn't get to in the city.