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Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: A very flat place (Grrrrrrrr)
Neoshell tents on 01/24/2014 18:39:02 MST Print View

I was wondering how long it will be before Neoshell tents turn.

Bobby Ess
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: Down on 01/24/2014 18:50:37 MST Print View

Yea, 2 different pieces. I mean, I will have more info in the next few weeks.

Bobby Ess
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/24/2014 18:51:30 MST Print View

Richard, I will be sure to check with the Primaloft people about the 800 dri down.

Dri down seems to be the norm with most manufacturers, except Arcteryx (more on that later).

Bobby Ess
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: Down synth on 01/24/2014 18:52:22 MST Print View

One of the designers from BD explained why the fibers on don't 'degrade'- the problem is 'clumping'- which the Gold supposedly doesnt do.

Bobby Ess
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: Thanks Bobby! My wish list for OR 2014 report on 01/24/2014 18:57:32 MST Print View

1) DriDown seems to be the norm with most manufacturers, with some notable exceptions.

2) Its my understanding that Alpha is NOT nearly as warm as PL or even Coreloft- but MUCH, MUCH more breathable. There is actually a new, insulation that claims to remedy this.

3) I will check it out- Sierra Designs seems to be doing really neat stuff. Great gear, great price points- EXCELLENT value.

4) Sea to Summit has something out called the Encapsule that is pretty neat. I will try and check it out tomorrow.

5) I havent checked out footwear other than Patagonia.

6) Osprey Mutant packs are awesome. Granite Gear rules

Bobby Ess
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: more stuff on 01/24/2014 18:58:54 MST Print View

The Power Wool is some of the most impressive stuff at the show, IMO.

PS- I feel the same way about the Cerium. Best ultralight down hoody available, IMO. I am REALLY stoked on the SV version coming out in Fall. (internal pocket, wind flap, hem cinch cord- everything I want in the Cerium LT).

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
Re: Re: Down synth on 01/24/2014 18:59:15 MST Print View

Most interesting

So if you mix primaloft with down it doesnt degrade from compression?

Hmmmm

;)

Bobby Ess
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: Some OR questions on 01/24/2014 19:03:58 MST Print View

I don't know price, but they come with a hood and will weigh 13.6 oz.

60G of the full-range insulation

Stephen Komae
(skomae) - MLife

Locale: northeastern US
Polartec Alpha on 01/24/2014 22:17:24 MST Print View

> Its my understanding that Alpha is NOT nearly as warm as PL or even Coreloft- but MUCH, MUCH more breathable.
Agreed with that. I've spent a lot of time in both the Rab Strata with 80g/m^2 PT Alpha and the Arcteryx Atom LT with 60g/m^2 PL1 with fleece sides and I still think the Atom LT is warmer. However, the breathability and comfort of PT Alpha make it perfect for active or semi-active use in a really wide temperature range. I've rocked the Rab Strata for rock climbing in the Fall at about 50ºF and about 15ºF in the winter for ice climbing with a light shell over it.

>There is actually a new, insulation that claims to remedy this.
Piqued my interest for sure!

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear) - M
Re: Polartec Alpha on 01/24/2014 22:38:47 MST Print View

If you take a thinner/lighter Apex and sandwich it in between two rather breathable layers of fabric, isn't that kind of like Alpha?

I've done some experimenting with this so far. I made a vest with 2.5 oz Apex insulation in the front, sewn between two layers of 1.1 oz uncalendared and no dwr ripstop nylon (very breathable), and wore it while active from temps between about 5* F to 20* F. Really liked it except at around 20 degrees, think it was a little warm for that, at least when the air was still, but it certainly didn't wet out either and being a vest and having the windjacket fully opened helped a lot.

But, not having actually tried Alpha, i can't say for sure how similar the air permeability is. I do know that with my vest, i can very easily both suck and blow air through the two layers of fabric and the insulation total, no problem. That's pretty cool imo.

I'm not sure why Apex isn't used more in garments, and more over why it's not used with these very breathable lining/shell fabrics. Many of us usually or often already carry around a windshirt or jacket, and/or some rain gear, so "windproofing" becomes really redundant.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/25/2014 05:24:19 MST Print View

"DriDown seems to be the norm with most manufacturers, with some notable exceptions. "
Well, that DWR-down is gaining ground, but saying that it is alreadu the norm is too much. There are quite some manufacturers that still don't use it.

"One of the designers from BD explained why the fibers on don't 'degrade'- the problem is 'clumping'- which the Gold supposedly doesnt do."
Sure they say that. I remain sceptical.

"I'm not sure why Apex isn't used more in garments,"
Because short-staple fibre drapes better.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/25/2014 08:21:30 MST Print View

Apparantly, there's still no standard test for rating these blends so everybody does his or her own thing, but Columbia should have created an index for rating.

There's a picture in the ORWM Day 3 magazine of the Nano Puff Air.

Diane Pinkers
(dipink) - M

Locale: Western Washington
TNF Thermoball on 01/25/2014 09:00:53 MST Print View

Has anyone tried or have information on the new synthetic insulation from North Face that is supposed to perform like down? I'm curious how well it works.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear) - M
Re: Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/25/2014 09:12:49 MST Print View

Re: Apex, "Because short-staple fibre drapes better."


Yah, but i find it a non issue. Really i think for mid layers and outer insulation layers, drape doesn't matter too much (unless talking extremes). Fashionistas, run way models, Gucci like designers, and the like might care about drape, but why should we?

I wonder if there might be an advantage to a slightly stiffer, long staple insulation (beside the typically talked about ones of no need to quilt, longer lasting than Primaloft), particularly when you're moving around some?

Bobby Ess
(persianpunisher) - F
Re: TNF Thermoball on 01/25/2014 10:07:01 MST Print View

Thermoball is actually a season old- I've been testing it for a few months and think that the hype is real.

NO, it doesnt breathe as well as PL1, but it SURE is warmer and more comfortable (lofty).

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Re: Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/25/2014 11:00:37 MST Print View

"Yah, but i find it a non issue. Really i think for mid layers and outer insulation layers, drape doesn't matter too much (unless talking extremes). Fashionistas, run way models, Gucci like designers, and the like might care about drape, but why should we? "
For me it's no problem either (in fact, I will replacing my current UL Thermawrap with a suitable jacket from Apex or its successor), but I'm not the designer or seller. Via BPL I bought a white, summerweight shirt in the US because no store in the EU didn't want to stock that color because stains can easily be spotted on light colors. Euh, I choose something because it's functional, not as a fashion statement.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/25/2014 12:36:36 MST Print View

Bobby,

Please stop by the Montbell booth and see if they have any new products and ask them why they aren't using DWR down.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/25/2014 12:42:54 MST Print View

Richard, I heard they were testing it.

Scott Lostetter
(Slost) - M
Montbell on 01/25/2014 16:34:15 MST Print View

I only stopped by Montbell for a moment to chat, but they did have a new jacket that I really liked the looks of. For fall 2014 they are dropping the EX Light jacket and are coming out with a hooded pullover version. It has a half zip and a kangaroo pocket and looks similar to the hooded Hadron that Stoic/Backcountry make. I was told it weighs about 6.5 ounces and has a little over 2 ounces of 900 fill down. Should retail for $219. I'm sorry I don't have the exact numbers on fill weight and total weight. It looked great though.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Montbell on 01/25/2014 17:08:37 MST Print View

It's not that new, but Montbell makes an overseas version of their Frost Smoke Parka (3.5oz down, 12.5oz total) without the heavier fabric is high wear areas and presumably without a few other features. It's called the Guide Parka and it weights 9.5oz with the same 3.5oz down I believe.

http://en.montbell.jp/products/goods/list.php?category=137000

You can find these on eBay, although there's no great deals right now. I don't have experience with this jacket, but it looks like it has a nice long torso cut unlike most of Montbell's stuff.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ultra-Light-Down-Zip-Guide-Parka-Honey-Mont-bell-Men-S-M-L-XL-Japan-1013-w-/331107479448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d178b2f98

Edited by dandydan on 01/25/2014 17:09:07 MST.