November 20, 2015 8:16 PM MST - Subscription purchasing, account maintenance, forum profile maintenance, new account registration, and forum posting have been disabled
as we prepare our databases for the final migration to our new server next week. Stay tuned here for more details.
Subscribe Contribute Advertise Facebook Twitter Instagram Forums Newsletter
Display Avatars Sort By:
Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/23/2014 18:06:41 MST Print View

Back at the Winter 2014 Outdoor Retailer show and I wanted to share with you some of the newest stuff coming out:

Primaloft Gold: An answer to the world's down shortage: 700 fill water-resistant down 'dilluted' with Primaloft fibers. Going to be in a TON of things next year, including Black Diamond's down products

Patagonia Nano Air: STRETCHY NanoPuff with FullRange (Patagonia's proprietary response to Polartec Alpha) insulation. 4 pockets (2 chest, 2 waist). THE PERFECT touring jacket, IMO- with 40 CFM breathability.

Patagonia Down Sweater hoody- new color scheme, one of them is like the Encapsil Parka- new interior pocket, like the Nano Puff- NO LONGER the internal mesh pocket.

Arcteryx Cerium and Thorium SV- Warmer, more durable materials and FINALLY an internal pocket. Retail is $450-500

Arcteryx Ceres Jacket- FULLY BAFFLED, 850 EU fill down, Windstopper outer. THE WARMEST jacket Arcteryx has ever made... retail is $750 though....

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - F

OR 2014 on 01/23/2014 19:42:52 MST Print View

Thanks for the info. Very cool stuff.

Babak Sakaki
(persianpunisher) - F
Interviews posted this weekend on 01/23/2014 20:15:02 MST Print View

I'll be doing some interviews with designers and product line managers at Arcteryx, Black Diamond, and Beyond (former Beyond Fleece) on their upcoming product line.

I'll also be linking with the Polartec guys to discuss their new Power Wool (think power dry, but merino) textile.

Anything you guys want to me to check out for you?

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - F

Down on 01/23/2014 21:08:05 MST Print View

Is BD going to make some seriously light down jackets?

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/23/2014 22:12:52 MST Print View


Thank you for the show report!

Does anyone at the show have any test information showing how Primaloft Gold compares to 800 fill Dri Down (or equivalent)?

How does the show's marketing hype, regarding DWR down, compare to prior shows?

Are any of the manufactures providing any new testing information on their DWR downs?

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/23/2014 22:37:58 MST Print View


Edited by rmjapan on 06/21/2015 06:16:22 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Down synth on 01/23/2014 23:22:35 MST Print View

Will the synth degrade before the down?

One of the reasons to buy down is that it resists loft loss due to compression over time

Synth degrades with constant compression ...

These down/synth jackets that use both, is te synth guaranteed to have the same lifespan as the down ... Or is it a marketing gimmic

If one is paying 400$+ for a jacket, one would hope it will last through many years of use and not have some parts go flat faster than others

And make sure you get how many oz of down fill are in the jacket ... Theres no excuse for any company not to give out that basic information ... Unless they are afraid of being compared to their competiton


Edited by bearbreeder on 01/23/2014 23:27:08 MST.

(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
Thanks Bobby! My wish list for OR 2014 report on 01/23/2014 23:33:48 MST Print View

Bobby thank you very much for the report. I hope we hear some more info from BPL staff as well.

1) Like Richard I'd also like to know what's being said about DWR down. It would be nice to know if it actually works and if it lasts.

2) Also love to know how Polartec Alpha compares with Primaloft One in terms of warmth. True Alpha was designed to be used with more breathable shell fabrics, which can mean a less warm jacket, but if you used Alpha in the same shell fabric you used for Primaloft One, would it be just as warm or warmer for the weight?

Alpha is interesting but I typically use fleece + breathable shell to stay warm and dry when on the move in cold conditions, and then throw on the puffy insulation belay layers at rest stops or in camp.

3) New light high quality sleeping bags

4) New lightweight 3 and 4 season shelters, trekking pole and self-supported

5) Any good new low drop trail footwear with cushion + roomy toe box + good traction

6) Higher volume lightweight internal frame packs in the 3600-5000 cu. in. range, especially for winter

And anything that really surprised you, even if it's impractical

Serge Giachetti
(sgiachetti) - M

Locale: Boulder, CO
more stuff on 01/23/2014 23:58:10 MST Print View

I'll be interested to see how the polartec power wool stuff works. I find myself going back and forth between polartec high efficiency (MEC T2) and my light wool hoody depending on the activity/conditions. Although come to think of it, I really don't need another option, they're both already THAT good.

Just a comment on the Arc down stuff. I tried to talk myself out of it a few times, but after finding a good deal, I splurged on an arc teryx cerium. Its easily the warmest piece I've found at that weight due to a combination of excellent design, tayloring, and high quality down. I'm not going to try and say that their down products are worth the stupid high prices, but I will say this is the nicest down piece that I've owned, and I bet their warmer stuff will be excellent as well.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: OR 2014 SNEAK PEAKS on 01/24/2014 04:10:47 MST Print View

That new Primaloft stuff, is it definitely a down/synth blend or pure synth because the communication on that from other brands is often confusing ?
BTW, there also Primaloft Silver and Black. All those blends are supposed to differ by the ratio of the blend.

The new Polartec Power Wool is actually a blend of synth on the outside and merino on the inside (comes in different styles e.g. N2S or High Efficiency).

The CLO/oz. for Alpha comes to ± 0,37 according to my calculations and is thus definitely not as warm as P1. Even now, a lot of brands are using it with Pertex Quantum or Microlight although I don't know if these are more AP variants.

And the Arc'teryx down stuff is not pure down, but also uses their Coreloft in some places.

Stephen Komae
(skomae) - MLife

Locale: northeastern US
Some OR questions on 01/24/2014 07:11:57 MST Print View

Do you feel that manufacturers are doubling down on Polartec Alpha and other more breathable insulation, or is the hype all about synthetic/down blends?

How is Primaloft Gold, Silver, etc down and synthetic ratios? Are they supplied as loose fill or in sheets like PL1?

Any new stuff on the wp/br front? Are there new Neoshell or Event jackets?

Does Nano Air have a hood? What's estimated MSRP?

Edited by skomae on 01/24/2014 07:13:08 MST.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Some OR questions on 01/24/2014 07:41:45 MST Print View

The ratios I've seen for the Primaloft blends are:
for Gold: 70 % 750 FP down/30 % synth
Silver: 60 (650 FP) /40
Black: 50/50

Edited by Woubeir on 01/26/2014 06:14:24 MST.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Some OR questions on 01/24/2014 07:44:20 MST Print View

The question is what happens to the down when the synth goes flat from repeated compression

I assume the synth is short staple to achieve that performance


Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Some OR questions on 01/24/2014 08:16:18 MST Print View

There appears also to be a Silver High Loft version with continuous filament insulation.

Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Some OR questions on 01/24/2014 10:23:32 MST Print View

Eric, I think a lot of this is a push towards higher performance at less long term use, like using UL materials that are strong but not bomber. Which basically means it is just slightly more justified marketing spin than the usual.

Either way, I love gear but hate shopping so will continue to focus on durability over minor performance gains that my ever increasing abdominal girth negates.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some OR questions on 01/24/2014 10:56:44 MST Print View

Dustin, thats an interesting take that i hadnt considered

So basically were paying for marginal performance gains most of us will never use effectively ... And paying more for something that wears out faster

Thats positively brilliant marketing !!!


just Justin Whitson
Re: Re: Some OR questions on 01/24/2014 11:16:35 MST Print View

I agree with Eric in that mixing synth and down in this way is not a practical or efficient idea.

If you mix down and synthetic in a way wherein one can easily replace the synthetic, then less of an issue. For this to be the case, they need to be separated. One layer of down, one layer of synthetic.

Will Newton
(Newts) - MLife
Neoshell tent! on 01/24/2014 14:12:19 MST Print View

Bobby, thanks for the report -- a thousand doubloons (or at least my great appreciation) for more info on Big Agnes' forthcoming neoshell Shield 2!


Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Neoshell tent! on 01/24/2014 14:17:30 MST Print View

It suffers in the wind, just like any other pop-up, and when you open the door in rain the groundsheet fills up.

Some ventilation, so it could be OK in low-land fine weather.


Sam Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
pop-ups on 01/24/2014 18:34:06 MST Print View

Re: "It suffers in the wind, just like any other pop-up, and when you open the door in rain the groundsheet fills up."

Roger, can you give us your definition of pop-ups. How do you know that all pop-ups suffer in the wind, when there are pop-up designs that probably haven't even been invented yet.

As Mark Twain and Donald Rumsfeld (what a combo) cautioned: How do you know what you don't know you don't know. (Repeat rapidly ten times.)

Would agree that another single-crossed 2 pole + eyebrow strut wedge dome is ho-hum, even if made of a state-of-the-art material.