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Roll Your Own Toilet Paper
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Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Roll Your Own Toilet Paper on 01/24/2014 20:33:32 MST Print View

Did Elton John "man up" when he wrote the music to the "The Bitch Is Back " lyrics ?
(that line came from the lyricist's wife when she saw Elton entering the room...)

My comment has to do with some not taking themselves (or life) as seriously as others do.

Steven Diogenes
(stevenn) - F
Franco on 01/24/2014 23:14:20 MST Print View

Sexism is as serious as it gets when you consider stats like 1 in 6 women being a victim of an attempt or an actual rape... and that's only the reported numbers, and it's been established that rape is rarely reported. The number goes up especially for women of color, and drastically goes up for trans women. So while using sexist language doesn't mean you're a rapist, the two are not separate phenomenon. They exist together in a patriarchical and sexist culture, and how easily we accept sexist language is a huge question in light of the literal epidemic of violence against women.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
The Roshi and the Ball'o TP on 01/24/2014 23:29:57 MST Print View

I was waiting until this thread degenerated enough to reveal this tip - just so it would not be too embarrassing by comparison. While I feel this point has been reached, I still fear my tactic is not going to be completely successful. Nevertheless, here goes anyway. As my Latin is rusty, I will try to relate this shocking information in as genteel a way as I can, so as to not cause delicate ladies to faint. I am afraid a youtube video is simply out of the question!

A story was related to me, or maybe I read it somewhere, about a certain Zen Roshi who ran a training temple in Japan I think. Anyway, he was a big cheese so he had his own outhouse. Either he died, or more likely one of the students got the job to clean out the outhouse - but somehow it was discovered that this Roshi was so predictable and systematic in his shitting that inside of the outhouse, in the place there the TP was supposed to go, was found a virtually perfect skyscraper of single squares of used toilet paper, all neatly stacked one on top of the other.

Now I'm sure this was supposed to convey some deep truth, but it was lost on me.

However, some time later I realized that (when backpacking) if you neatly fold up your used TP, very soon it becomes a ball and, for a time at least, it maintains a useful radius and, one might say, architectural integrity owing to its properties of construction - an approximation what Mike Clelland might call the "right sized rock". During this period, or "phase of growth" - one can greatly minimize one's use of TP by making use of the ball as a "substitute rock" with just a few additional sheets of TP covering each use. Now keep in mind when properly constructed the used side of the material is always on the interior, where it acts as a kind of cement, while making no actual subsequent contact. The squeamish have the option of adding a few more sheets of TP, after as extra insulation.

Note this method can also be used with natural materials where the rock-substitute/ball can be used as (Mike Clelland's words not mine) a "finisher". No last-minute moss or stone collecting required!

At some point, but usually if one is economical only on a long trip, the radius may grow to be impractical, at which point the process can be started again. The final shape of the "substitute rock" saves space (of course in a zip-lock) as well as TP used, and is easy to drop in the trash or otherwise appropriately disposed of it after a trip, though stealth is recommended in this last step in order to avoid any embarrassing questions or attention.

I'd like to imagine the Roshi nodding sagely to me in approval after hearing about this - as if we shared some secret knowledge. But most likely you all think I'm a nutter. But there you have it, my up-to-now-super-secret (and super-embarrassing) all-true tip/teachings on saving TP weight, and all in accordance with maximal LNT. And a pox upon you if you burn or bury your TP on the trail.

Edited by millonas on 01/25/2014 01:40:02 MST.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
What is everyone eating??? on 01/25/2014 08:40:37 MST Print View

I actually do just fine TP-less, and now that I have discovered the wonders of the pee rag I am in bathroom nirvana on the trail!

But my question is this: what do you guys eat that require sooooo much thought about the TP?

Edited by Jenmitol on 01/25/2014 19:29:54 MST.

Diane Pinkers
(dipink) - M

Locale: Western Washington
More fiber? on 01/25/2014 09:01:54 MST Print View

Maybe folks need to add more fiber to their backpacking diets?

Diane Pinkers
(dipink) - M

Locale: Western Washington
Thanks, Steven on 01/25/2014 09:04:19 MST Print View

Thank you for your commentary on use of language, Steven. Folks use phrases without considering their origin or what they really mean, and have no idea how it colors their attitudes and perceptions about others.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
TP on 01/25/2014 09:47:43 MST Print View

Mark. That's awesome.

Billy Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: Thanks, Steven on 01/25/2014 10:28:06 MST Print View

Steven makes a valid point. But his rant is a bit over the top and edges into the territory of, "me thinks thou protestuth too much..."

I suggest we get back to poop and TP.... and stop the pooping on each other.

Billy

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Thanks, Steven on 01/25/2014 11:30:05 MST Print View

Jennifer, I AM working towards going TP-less. For example I do use natural materials as well. Maybe I'll get there some day.

As for why the obsessiveness in this threat. Seriously? This is BPL!

Steven Diogenes
(stevenn) - F
..... on 01/25/2014 12:52:50 MST Print View

Diane, thanks.

Billy, point taken- I was heated so I probably did get a little too finger-waggy.

Mark, lol, doesn't your... poo ball... start to smell?

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: ..... on 01/25/2014 13:06:57 MST Print View

"Mark, lol, doesn't your... poo ball... start to smell?"

You make me sound like a dung beetle! But but no more, and possibly a bit less because of the construction, than any or similar mixture of used toilet paper. It is not an issue if you have a ziplock for use toilet paper, and you can always double-bag.

Also, I don't consider not packing it out an option.

Steven Diogenes
(stevenn) - F
..... on 01/25/2014 13:25:45 MST Print View

Mark, I'm curious about this... according to Thruhiker, TP degrades in ten days when buried 6 inches-- does that still conflict with LNT? Is there a difference between spending ten days at a site, and letting TP disappear in ten days? Is there a difference between leaving your poop under the ground to disappear (which probably takes much longer than TP), and leaving the TP under the ground to disappear? Just a few questions I'm pondering.

Billy Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: ..... on 01/25/2014 18:14:39 MST Print View

"TP degrades in ten days when buried 6 inches"

I may... in some climates. But I've encountered TP in the High Sierra where it is all mineral soil and very dry that has been there for years... at least that's my estimate. But certainly a LOT longer than 10 days... and longer than one season...

Billy

Steven Diogenes
(stevenn) - F
TP on 01/25/2014 20:06:53 MST Print View

Billy, I didn't think of that. I imagine the rate it degrades correlates to how much life is in the soil.

What about burning it?

Daniel Pittman
(pitsy) - M

Locale: Central Texas
Critter TP on 01/25/2014 20:16:44 MST Print View

Steven, the power of the insult (and the humor) comes from me going 'over the top' with a hyper-masculine response. I would never say anything like that in real life but I thought it was appropriate considering Critter's statement that he learned it from a Green Beret. The military is still largely a 'boys club' and misogynistic words and deeds are par for the course.

In actual fact, I am extremely pro-woman. I will raise my son to respect women as equals to men. My mother is an amazing woman, and my seven sisters are very dear to me.

I'm offended by Critter's video because it encourages people to carry and use a lot of TP. If you need that much, and you have to compact it that much, how are you planning to pack it out. If you plan on burying it, GTFO. If you plan on burning it, GTFO. If you're planning on carrying a gallon ziploc full of used TP, please don't camp near me. Just learn to wash your butt, then wash your hands. It's so much easier!

Steven Diogenes
(stevenn) - F
Re: Critter TP on 01/25/2014 20:33:50 MST Print View

Daniel, I didn't catch the military hyper-masculine part of the joke. That makes more sense and I get that you wouldn't actually say that straightforwardly. That said, even in jest, it was a still an insult (a meta-insult, I guess), that relies and reinforces a negative conception of women. I'm not saying you're not respectful of women in a bigger sense, but the language we use and the unstated ideas behind what we say play a part in a larger picture of an epidemic of violence against women. Anyway, thanks for taking it in stride and if I was too preachy, I apologize.


As far as TP, out of curiosity, why do you feel so strongly about burning or burying it?

Daniel Pittman
(pitsy) - M

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Critter TP on 01/25/2014 21:28:45 MST Print View

It's all good. Some forms of humor don't work so well on the internet as they do face-to-face. Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

Burning TP is a valid option in some areas. But with drought conditions all over the place, I think it's irresponsible to teach burning TP as a regular practice.

Another poster mentioned that burying doesn't work in all soils.

Washing your butthole with water or snow seems to work just about everywhere, and we all wash our hands after going to the bathroom anyway, so why bother with TP? After all, this is BPL and there's nothing lighter than leaving something at home.

I rarely use TP at home even. I usually move my bowels in the morning, then hop right into the shower before heading to work. Probably TMI, huh?

Now, someone needs to tell me what all these gals are talking about... pee rags?

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: Critter TP on 01/25/2014 21:44:23 MST Print View

Daniel, THIS is why I think we need a set of universal sarcasm and irony smilies. There should be a committee set up, or something.

Life would just be too uncivilized without irony, and on this site it is pretty much required a lot of the time. Unfortunately this high art does not transfer that well online, and forces you almost to forgo subtle irony. I say next time go BIGGER and MORE obvious! Yeah, that might work!

(jumps into a figurative trench and slowly peaks over the edge to see what will happen)

Trace Richardson
(tracedef) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Yes, please on 01/25/2014 21:50:31 MST Print View

If my knucklehead buddies didn't call me a pussy or bleeding vagina at least once every few days, I would start to think they didn't love me.

Edited by tracedef on 01/25/2014 21:55:30 MST.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re: Critter TP on 01/25/2014 21:55:08 MST Print View

Many decades ago, I was a young Army trainee at boot camp. We were taken to one of the training ranges where we were instructed in how to bivouac overnight. During that first night out, nature made its call, so I went digging around for some place to make a deposit. Virtually everyplace where I dug, used toilet paper would emerge from the dirt. It got disgusting pretty quickly. That is also where I learned to burn the TP whenever it was safe to do so. Buried ash will disappear pretty quickly.

In the Mount Shasta Wilderness, the forest service would issue a WAG bag to everybody on a wilderness permit for the volcano. Inside the WAG bag was some TP, some kitty litter, and one big paper bull's eye target to lay on the ground. Instructions for use had to be printed on the target.

--B.G.--