Forum Index » Pre-Trip Planning » CA Drought and 2014 hiking season


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Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: dry California forest on 01/20/2014 11:01:05 MST Print View

There's never a bad time to spread fire panic.

if we have a dry hot summer, they say it's a drought, a dry tinder box ready to ignite at the slightest chipotle spicy fart.

if we have a wet winter, by So Cal exagerated standards that's 10 days of rain, they say that the rain will cause the shrubs and grasses to grow, making them a tinder box ready to ignite at the slightest chipotle spicy fart.

if lightning causes a fire, then it's organic, and natural and should let the forest/nature manage its own burn lifecycle, so that the manzanita berries can roast and release the seeds.

if an arsonist or dumb kids cause a fire, then all hikers and backpackers are not allowed a stove in the wilderness EVER, and denied access to the burn zone for a year or two. We always need a memorial plaque and name a highway after someone.

if the forest service and fire dept professionals do a controlled burn in the winter, and the fire gets out of control, and burns a forest, causes a few 100s millions of damage, roasts wildlife, pollutes the air quality... no one gets fired, no one is accountable. there is no report on ecological damage, backpackers are still not allowed to carry a stove and the burned area is closed off for rehabilitation for a few years.

I have a solution.
Dig a pipeline trench from the ocean up to the mountain ridges. With the design of hydrolic'ing, start with a 4 ft diameter pipe at sea level, and keep going smaller till it gets to be a garden hose at altitude. This eliminates the need for an uphill pump. The motion of the ocean will jet the pressure uphill to fill with sea water a plastic reservoir carefully hidden from disturbing a panorama.

when we get a fire happening, either manual, remote control, or some automatic fire sensor will open the spigot on the reservoir and soak the hillside.

Sure, nothing is perfect. You'll get salt water and jelly fish and sardine in the pipeline, and the mountain will smell fishy for a week, but the alternative is a forest fire that is 30% contained for 3 weeks. The squirrels and hawks will eat the fish. The rain will wash the sea salt, which is not that big of a deal because coastal mountains get daily salty sea mist, it's not going to affect the pH level that much, not as bad as a blazing fire with roasted owls, deer and squirrels.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
CA Drought and 2014 hiking season on 01/20/2014 11:21:38 MST Print View

I thought you were going to have a shuttle propelled by the ocean to get folks to the top. Like a ram pump that works off of slight fall in water to create pressure.
Duane

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Cliff Mass post on 01/21/2014 10:58:55 MST Print View

Here's hoping for a "March miracle" again....this is dire

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: dry California forest on 01/21/2014 12:54:21 MST Print View

"not as bad as a blazing fire with roasted owls, deer and squirrels."

Tell me more. Do you have a recipe for roasted owl?

--B.G.--

Brian Johns
(bcutlerj) - M

Locale: NorCal
Nasa's Take on Dry California on 01/21/2014 21:52:16 MST Print View

Snow pack 2013 compared to snowpack 2014. Pretty unbelievable - unless you've been living here.

NasaOnSnow

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Nasa's Take on Dry California on 01/21/2014 22:27:52 MST Print View

Didn't we just see this a week ago in this thread?

--B.G.--

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Re: Nasa's Take on Dry California on 01/21/2014 22:33:35 MST Print View

We saw it on the other page which might as well be a separate thread.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: dry California forest on 01/22/2014 02:23:19 MST Print View

> I have a solution.
> Dig a pipeline trench from the ocean up to the mountain ridges. With the design of
> hydrolic'ing, start with a 4 ft diameter pipe at sea level, and keep going smaller
> till it gets to be a garden hose at altitude. This eliminates the need for an uphill
> pump.

Congratulations. You have just invented the Perpetual Energy Machine. Pity the Patent Office will reject it without further consideration.

Cheers

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: dry California forest on 01/22/2014 06:41:28 MST Print View

Doger: "The motion of the ocean will jet the pressure uphill to fill with sea water a plastic reservoir carefully hidden from disturbing a panorama."

Caffin: "Congratulations. You have just invented the Perpetual Energy Machine."


Wiki: Hydraulic Ram Pump

I'm not sure that Doger's idea is sound (friction and all that), but pretty sure hydraulic ram and wave motion pumps are real.

Edited by greg23 on 01/22/2014 08:34:11 MST.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Re: dry California forest on 01/22/2014 11:06:53 MST Print View

I've been wanting to do that on my property for years, but don't think I have enough fall across my acre. They can only do so much lift. I'll have to opt for a solar pump to pump water into a tank, to be released on the weekends to water the garden.
Duane

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: dry California forest on 01/22/2014 11:25:57 MST Print View

In California's 1800s history, the gold rush industry used a process that is now illegal. They find a creek stream that is a mile away from the actual hillside they want to hose down to loosen the gold from the mountain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_mining

basically it's channeling a slow calm body of water into a thin pressure jet. Similar to those horrible water conservation bathroom needle stream showerhead.

My idea was to pipe upward the ocean water, which by pure coincidence is at... (wait for it...) sea level, starting with a wide pipe that thins out with distance, creating a skinny jet stream but with more energy behind it that pushes it upward.

then capture the skinny water jet at reservoir that fill up slowly over time, to be released during fire season.

also since waves and tide move in and out, the pipeline could benefit from a one-directional trapdoor flap, so it only has forward movement with no water drain back.

At this popular hiking trail (IH Canyon) in Mt B, there is a cabin on top of the hill that get water uphill from the stream at the bottom of the canyon through this harnessed pressure system.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: dry California forest on 01/22/2014 11:33:21 MST Print View

IIR, 40' or 50' is about all a ram pump can lift.

So you may be about 7,950' short....

Edited by greg23 on 01/22/2014 11:34:50 MST.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: Re: Re: dry California forest on 01/22/2014 11:54:31 MST Print View

:)

Edited by RogerDodger on 01/22/2014 11:55:05 MST.

James Reilly
(zippymorocco)

Locale: Montana
Closures on 01/22/2014 13:18:12 MST Print View

I'm starting April 18. I am curious if there are ever preemptive closures? Or are there just fire/stove bans?

It's crazy, I was hoping for low snow pack and never thought of the negative impact that has on the state.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: dry California forest on 01/22/2014 14:02:32 MST Print View

Hi Greg and Rodger and all

Yes, I know about hydraulic ram pumps, but the initial claim was 'This eliminates the need for an uphill pump'. A 'hydraulic ram pump' is still a pump.

Would a hydraulic ram pump get up far enough? Unlikely. 8000' of water pressure (to the top of the ranges) is about 3,600 psi. That's static: not counting friction.

Cheers

Brian Crain
(brcrain) - F

Locale: So Cal
Re: Closures on 01/22/2014 17:13:38 MST Print View

"It's crazy, I was hoping for low snow pack and never thought of the negative impact that has on the state."

Thanks James. At least we know who to blame now! ;)

Rex Sanders
(Rex) - M

Locale: Central California Coast
Re: Closures on 01/22/2014 20:19:48 MST Print View

Some parks in California (like Mt Diablo) will shut down completely during extreme fire danger.

Parts of the PCT are still closed from recent fires (e.g. near Mt San Jacinto).

Best to check with PCTA for the latest news and trail closure forecasts.

-- Rex

Edited by Rex on 01/22/2014 20:20:23 MST.

Amy Lauterbach
(drongobird) - MLife

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
CA Snowpack still anemic on 01/31/2014 09:25:55 MST Print View

We finally had some precipitation here in California, but not enough to make much dent. And although the 10 day forecast includes some more dribs and drabs, there are no real storms coming soon. Still hoping for some redemption.

snowpack-1

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: CA Snowpack still anemic on 01/31/2014 09:42:06 MST Print View

on NPR this morning, they said a historic pattern of a heavy wet winter on the east coast, usually translates to a drought on the west coast.

I'm thinking along the lines of the railroads of 200 years ago, we need a water pipeline to siphon east coast flood water and route it to the west coast dry zones.

California produces 30% of the US food agriculture.

For those few days that it did rain in SoCal, I thought about capturing the water from the roof and rain gutter run-off into water barrels, for lawn and garden irrigation, but the Mrs does not support such initiatives.


by the way Mt B, San J, Big Bear, Pine Cove are reporting 4 to 6 inches about 6000' although they will melt by the time the sun comes out.

Edited by RogerDodger on 01/31/2014 10:09:14 MST.

James Reilly
(zippymorocco)

Locale: Montana
Hatfield on 01/31/2014 09:57:06 MST Print View

It's time to call in Charlie Hatfield.

Hatfield



Charles Hatfied, San Diego Rainmaker, Wiki link

Edited by zippymorocco on 01/31/2014 09:57:44 MST.