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Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: environment on 01/10/2014 14:52:24 MST Print View

Rusty,

Chouinard has been very good about keeping his involvement quiet but he is long-time partner with Doug Tompkins (The North Face founder) who has been more public about his conservation. Also remember that Kris Tompkins, Doug's wife, is a former CEO of Patagonia. You can further see the personal connection between Tompkins and Chouinard in the film 180 degrees South.

You can read about Tompkins more here:
http://www.coha.org/20349/

I want to clarify, I think what Patagonia and all the major companies that use their wealth in some meaningful, if small, way to better the world and environment are doing an great job. From an American perspective they are admirable. However their involvement in other nations tends to be very "american" without the cultural sensitivity needed to effect long lasting change. When american's buy up thousands of acres of foreign land, then donate it for a national park...that's great for the park. It's not great for changing the hearts of a people. Instead they'll always view that land as stolen from them by the outsiders in collusion with the government. It's their land to care for or destroy, not some rich white dude's decision of how best to act as stewards. For a developing nation that needs to exploit natural resources to compete in a global economy, it can be actually used to ensure poverty. Conservation is not the end all be all to environmental problems.

Completely unrelated to Patagonia but the concept is discussed in depth in "The Myth of Wild Africa"

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: What is Capilene? on 01/10/2014 15:18:58 MST Print View

On track... Capilene is good stuff. I have several iterations of it.

I have read "let my people go surfing." Not impressed. I am sure you can find many negative book reviews via Google.

Patagonia is a "for profit" entity, and as such, pays corporate income taxes on its profits, which makes it more difficult to compete against companies that do not pay income taxes.

Co-ops like MEC and REI avoid corporate income taxes by paying out profits as dividends, and I doubt many members declare their dividends as income and pay taxes on them. I am not an income tax advocate, but think everyone should pay their fair share. Of course the members of MEC and REI could vote to change this and pay income taxes on the profits before dividend distribution. Of course most green and righteous people don't stick to their principles if it hits their wallet.

Just for fun, you might like to read about Green Greed. And yes, the taxpayers of California have and will continue to subsidize Patagonia's solar plant at their headquarters in Ventura. Taxpayers who can't afford Patagonia gear or even afford to go backpacking. And Yvonne is a multi-millionaire. But he makes good gear. Enough pontificating. You good folks can continue the debate over the weekend, I'll be out backpacking.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is Capilene? on 01/10/2014 15:32:04 MST Print View

I think this is an interesting topic but I'll post my response about Let My People Go Surfing in Chaff so the topic can get back to the OP.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is Capilene? on 01/10/2014 15:35:09 MST Print View

hmmm

pay tax on REI dividends?

I always figured it was just a partial refund of what you paid, which you didn't get a tax credit for, so you shouldn't have to pay tax

Regardless of the fact it uses the same name "dividend" as what corporations pay to stockholders and you clearly should have to pay tax on

REI "has advantage" in that it doesn't pay tax on profits?

REI has a disadvantage that it wasn't started with a bunch of capital that has to be paid back with dividends. For profit company gets to raise capital which is huge advantage.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Re: What is Capilene? on 01/10/2014 15:35:45 MST Print View

Capilene is polyester.

What makes it different from any other polyester, beside the fact that it is a name registered by Patagonia?

Capilene is a polyester baselayer chemically treated like just about every other baselayer to wick moisture faster than untreated polyester. I forget which "large" magazine wrote that only Marmot's Dri-clime used structure to wick … but that was several years ago, so maybe that has changed. Also not sure if all the proprietary chemistry is public.

Disclosure: I prefer Capilene-1 as a base layer since it wicks better for my skin type but where my pack contacts it, the thin fabric abrades quickly. Hence the need for a shirt worn on top to protect it (wish they'd make a polyester shirt with nylon panels on the shoulder/back where the pack constantly contacts).

Edited by hknewman on 01/10/2014 15:37:33 MST.

Rusty Beaver
(rustyb) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Thanks on 01/10/2014 15:35:52 MST Print View

Thanks, Dustin and Nick. And to Greg, the OP; I apologize for derailing your thread.