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Jeremy Rardin
(JearBear) - M

Locale: Cumberland Trail
SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 13:45:38 MST Print View

What is a good SUL clothing system for temperatures to 40 F? I want it to weigh under 25 oz.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 13:47:14 MST Print View

Do you mean all clothing worn?

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 13:55:18 MST Print View

This I've got to see...just 24 oz. for a skin out setup in 40*F weather?

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 14:12:20 MST Print View

Broad and deep category and a good question. For me, getting a lightweight clothing system is one of the mind-bender parts of an SUL kit.

First of all, what are the rest of the weather conditions? Wet? Dry? Humid? Overcast? Sunny?

What is your temperature tolerance?

Does your 25oz target include rain gear? Something like a poncho shelter with SUL bivy or a Gatewood Cape can help there.

What are you considering for your base clothing? Is that part of your 25oz target? If you want this to work, it has to be a tightly integrated system.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 14:31:37 MST Print View

Jeremy,

Seems you are asking a lot of questions about SUL gear in multiple threads.

While it is possible to accumulate a SUL kit in this manner, it might be a better approach to take your current kit and slowly replace individual items over a period of time. This way you will have a better idea if what kinds of things work for you, and par down the kit so you have a coherent system, where some items take on multiple uses.

This gradual lightening of gear will be based on your accumulated skill and experience. Most people I know that do SUL trips put their kit together without much help from others. They may have asked specific questions about specific items, but they had the knowledge to assemble a SUL without assistance -- which kind of defines what SUL is.

Jeremy Rardin
(JearBear) - M

Locale: Cumberland Trail
Re: Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 14:37:02 MST Print View

Sorry, I know I should have been more specific. The average highs for the day should be around 60s or 70s. I would anticipate wetness because I would like to use my system for 10 days, I will have to refill for food but I don't want my clothes to cause a problem.
Temperature tolerance, I day hiked at 20 F with just a MH wicketd lite long sleeve, wool socks, 5 oz long underwear, hiking pants, beanie, and gloves. At 40 F hiking I tend to be just my wicked lite and wind shirt. I will be using a Gatewood Cape for my shelter/rain gear. I don't count my base clothing... but skin out would be interesting to see as well.

Edited by JearBear on 01/09/2014 14:47:54 MST.

Jeremy Rardin
(JearBear) - M

Locale: Cumberland Trail
Re: Re: Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 14:40:20 MST Print View

I am slowly replacing item by item, but I am asking these questions according to system just for ideas. I know most of the gear, but I like seeing stuff that people know that I haven't heard of. I have already put together a 40 F SUL system with everything on paper, but I would like a little bit more flexibility if that makes sense.

Jeremy Rardin
(JearBear) - M

Locale: Cumberland Trail
Re: Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 14:45:56 MST Print View

2.5 oz socks
5.6 Montbell Ex lite Down Jacket
3 oz Thermal Underwear
1.6 Montbell Windhsirt
1 oz Black Rock Beanie
2 oz gloves

My legs don't really get cold. I can put that together, but I like asking questions about other people's systems for ideas. Like the thread about SUL cooking, I have been to Trail Designs, Lite Trail, and Suluk 46.. but I never noticed the T.E.A. Cook system until someone posted it in reply.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 17:20:52 MST Print View

What you have listed there would be more than sufficient for me to stay warm at 40*. I was pretty happy with my kit as I put it together but I was shocked to see how heavy my carried clothes weighed in so I appreciate your concern. I hope to upgrade to the EX light later this winter.

Enjoying your blog so far btw.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/09/2014 17:49:13 MST Print View

Jeremy listed the following items:

"2.5 oz socks
5.6 Montbell Ex lite Down Jacket
3 oz Thermal Underwear
1.6 Montbell Windshirt
1 oz Black Rock Beanie
2 oz gloves"

I don't know exactly what the "thermal underwear" is, but that looks like a "standard" SUL cloth kit to me. You could always tweak it with a heavier base layer or a vest.

Part of SUL is making compromises, so you have enough there to keep you safe enough and comfortable on 40F rest stops. If you're a little cold in camp, you can always wrap your quilt around you, or just get under your shelter and tuck in for the day.

One way that people have tested gear is to take and use the "experimental" item with a known good backup in case it fails. This time of year is great for testing cold limits by just wearing the item in town if and when the temps match your expected hiking conditions-- if you don't live in Southern California or Florida :) There's nothing like a good backyard test with a warm house handy.

Jeremy Rardin
(JearBear) - M

Locale: Cumberland Trail
Clothing System on 01/09/2014 22:49:20 MST Print View

Ian-
I suspect this would be sufficient for me as well but I was just curious to see what people had. Hiking in temps above 40 F I have been fine in my Wicket Lite base layer and a windshirt and the down is nice for camp and sleeping. Thanks for the blog comment as well! Its cool that people actually read it haha

Dale-
Yeah the thermal underwear is just a reference to some silk bottoms or very light weight bottoms. I am considering getting down pants from Borah Gear and asking that he use 1 or 1.5 oz less of down fill. That would make them less valuable for 3 season use but that would bring them under 4 oz for my 40F SUL trips. He also makes a vest that weighs 3.6 oz. Those are other options I am considering.


The reason I am putting so much thought and inquiry into this right now is because I am considering issuing myself a challenge for 2014 to never carry more than SUL for any temps above 40F. This would really give me some good trail experience with myself and my limits as well as an interesting place blogging and interacting with gear companies. I think I can do it safely and comfortably and I have two months to get ready. It will likely come down to money.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: SUL is an arbitrary concept on 01/09/2014 23:08:52 MST Print View

SUL is so arbitrary. I can understand trying to get as light as possible for the expected conditions, but it becomes just another box to get trapped inside, even becoming some perverse masochism when it steals your comfort and threatens your well being.

Wilderness travel is supposed to be recreation. Better to have a couple more pounds and enjoy the experience.

Jeremy Rardin
(JearBear) - M

Locale: Cumberland Trail
Re: Re: SUL is an arbitrary concept on 01/09/2014 23:26:42 MST Print View

Hike your own hike I suppose. I like pushing and testing myself, but I assume that I would eventually level off around 8 lbs comfortably. I think a lot can be learned about oneself through the experience and if I try it and its not for me then lesson learned haha. SUL for 40 F temps. doesn't really ask you to go without a certain level of comfort, just that you choose your gear carefully.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/10/2014 08:22:10 MST Print View

"I suspect this would be sufficient for me as well but I was just curious to see what people had. Hiking in temps above 40 F I have been fine in my Wicket Lite base layer and a windshirt and the down is nice for camp and sleeping."

Sorry I didn't catch a solicitation to share what I use from what I read.

From what I understand, this list is what you're carrying in your pack and not what you're wearing while hiking:

2.5 oz socks
5.6 Montbell Ex lite Down Jacket
3 oz Thermal Underwear
1.6 Montbell Windhsirt
1 oz Black Rock Beanie
2 oz gloves

As far as what I'd carry from that list...

If I was predicting lows of 40*, that is pretty warm so I'd personally bring either the thermal underwear or the down jacket but not both. Assuming you're hiking in a t shirt, adding a wind shirt and down jacket would be more than sufficient for me down to freezing. I run pretty warm so ymmv.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 01/10/2014 08:40:05 MST.

Jeremy Rardin
(JearBear) - M

Locale: Cumberland Trail
Re: Re: Re: Re: SUL Clothing System on 01/10/2014 13:42:50 MST Print View

Precisely.. the extra pair of sock is to change into and let my other ones dry if it rain or because of foot sweat. The down gear is for camp and sleeping. I will be using a quilt to sleep and I like being toasty. I expect the night time temps to push the rating of my quilt, but I will supplement not using another bag by increasing the rating by wearing that down clothing. I am considering having Borah gear custom make down pants and jacket with less fill so it will save weight and won't be overkill. I will have roughly 40 oz taken up by my big 4, 16 or so oz for ten essentials and cooking, that leaves me the 20 or so oz for clothing. I like the extra comfort and backup of having that down gear and i can afford the weight while still carrying less than 5 lbs.

Joe L
(heyyou) - MLife

Locale: Cutting brush off of the Arizona Tr
VBL instead of spare socks on 06/18/2014 21:59:02 MDT Print View

"the extra pair of sock is to change into and let my other ones dry if it rain or because of foot sweat"

Choose thin socks so they hold less moisture. You can take them off and wring them out. Dry your feet with some other clothing, and keep your feet warm in your quilt. Eat a hot meal if you are carrying a stove, then put your socks back on and into plastic bags. Put your feet into the already warm footbox of the bag/quilt.

Thaddaeus Wharton
(Thadjw) - MLife
ZPacks rain gears additions... on 07/30/2014 02:48:51 MDT Print View

Would really be light yet add to rain risk mitigation plus add warmth if needed.