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Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Earth Runners vs Exodus Sandals on 01/02/2014 01:09:49 MST Print View

"The folks at BackpackingLight need to do a minimalist Sandal review."

Yeah, because after this last year's crop of reviews the staff is running out of review ideas for stuff not related to backpacking.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Earth Runners vs Exodus Sandals on 01/02/2014 01:15:00 MST Print View

"Yeah, because after this last year's crop of reviews the staff is running out of review ideas for stuff not related to backpacking."

Ultralight backpacking :)

Edited by dwambaugh on 01/02/2014 01:15:45 MST.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 01:15:34 MST Print View

Just when I think Justin can't possibly write something as dumb as his last post, he proves me wrong again...over and over. That's the skeptic in me, never giving up.

Kudos, I stand corrected, indeed in awe.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 01:20:26 MST Print View

"Just when I think Justin can't possibly write something as dumb as his last post, he proves me wrong again...over and over. That's the skeptic in me, never giving up.

Kudos, I stand corrected, indeed in awe."


And just when i think that Mark might possibly (but with doubt) reply without personal insults or put downs, he proves me both wrong and right at the same time in expectations.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 01:25:00 MST Print View

Ain't I a stinker?

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 01:49:51 MST Print View

No Mark, in many ways, you're just typical from my experience. From the time that i can remember in early grade school till present, when interacting with my peers in a group dynamic, i would somewhat often receive treatment in a similar manner despite being very quiet and keeping to myself (especially when younger).

Being treated thusly use to upset, sadden, and/or anger me. Eventually, i realized that the people who treated me and others they deemed defective, less than, etc in such a manner deep down had a lot of insecurity and self love issues despite the proud, confident airs or the grins or smirks.

I started to have compassion for these folks, because i both intuited/learned it was these folks who really are the ones who suffer more (unless they are truly pathological, but ime such people are rare). What you put out, you receive in some fashion.

As i've said to Franco before, people who are truly happy within, and know the importance of love, rarely ever put down, try to belittle, or make feel bad any person. They might stand up for themselves or for others or disagree impersonally with certain ideas, beliefs, etc, but they don't demean others on a personal level, or they don't make a habit of it.

This is the 2nd personally directed, insulting post from you to me within just a few days.

Edited by ArcturusBear on 01/02/2014 02:10:52 MST.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 02:55:04 MST Print View

Justin,

I'm usually ironic because it seems so boring being literal when replying to many of your posts I find to be tendentious, self-involved, passive-aggressive trolls. I'm guessing I'm not alone in this reaction, but its partially my fault because I didn't realize what a troll you were at first, and I did exactly the wrong thing, which was to respond at all. No harm done.

But let me just label this as my first and last *totally non-ironic* reply to you so there can be no confusion on your part this time. I have the perfect solution! I promise to simply ignore all your posts in the future, and therefore will have no reason to respond at all. That way neither of us will have to be subjected to the other.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 09:08:16 MST Print View

Classic, next level is always to bring out the fixed, negative labels. TROLL! TROLL! TROLL! Let's brand him forever more.


How about interacting with people with kindness and respect, and keeping it to the information at hand, rather than making it about the person and their supposed lacks? It's very easy to disagree and debate without the personal put downs and insults.

It may not be a "fault" of the other that they have very different beliefs and perspectives than self.. Just saying.

Edited by ArcturusBear on 01/02/2014 09:14:05 MST.

Rusty Beaver
(rustyb) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 09:55:57 MST Print View

Reading all this reminded me of a huge lawsuit ~10 yrs ago that made national news. After 2+ months, a jury awarded $17 million+ to an Idaho dairyman who "proved" that stray voltage from power lines was affecting his cows and their milk production.

Last year while using a volt meter here at my house, I had the thought, just for fun, to hook myself up. The reading piqued my curiosity so I walked around checking my volts. I was at zero standing barefoot outside. The closer I got to electricity, with shoes on, the higher my juice. My highest voltage, by far, was near the breaker box. The second highest was right here at my computer I'm typing this post on.

However, that said, I could stand near my breaker box barefoot and be completely grounded (no volts in me). I could do the same by attaching a wire to the ground in an electrical outlet and sitting at my computer.

Can this extra juice running through me be good.... or affect me in some way? I wish I were smart enough to know with absolute certainty. I'm not though......

Edited by rustyb on 01/02/2014 14:28:51 MST.

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Bullying needs to stop here on 01/02/2014 09:57:15 MST Print View

It's really not necessary that we all agree or see eye to eye on things here.

We just went through this six months ago with another member who didn't take this as well as Justin does and it didn't end well.

Don't like or agree what he has to say? Skip on to the next response.

Take care all and have a nice day.

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
bullying on 01/02/2014 10:09:04 MST Print View

Justin and Mark, take a deep breath and be more civil please.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 10:19:04 MST Print View

As Elmer Fudd might say, Warry Interesting Wusty. But yeah, seriously, quite interesting. I will try out sometime too.

Have you noticed that subjectively that you feel better when barefoot on the earth?




Ian, thank you for standing up for constructive principles here--would say that even if it didn't involve me.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: bullying on 01/02/2014 10:21:57 MST Print View

"Justin and Mark, take a deep breath and be more civil please."


Hi David, i was civil to Mark despite his personally directed put downs and name calling.

Edited by ArcturusBear on 01/02/2014 10:23:32 MST.

Derek Westcott
(drwestco) - F
Re: Re: Re: Earth Runner on 01/02/2014 10:28:33 MST Print View

Two obvious flaws in this reasoning:

"...i doubt it's placebo because i don't have any concrete, preconceived belief about it to begin with."

Effects like "feeling better" happen on the subconscious level, and your own brain isn't a reliable judge on whether there's a measurable, reproducible, physical effect, or whether it's placebo, or some other form of mental trickery. For going barefoot, it certainly works your muscles differently, and requires a different level of concentration. Those two points alone could easily explain a better feeling.

"All i'm certain of, is we both experienced very noticeable effects from close contact with this stone."

No, you don't. What you've described are effects time-correlated with close contact with the stone. It's a stretch to jump from there to concluding that those effects were caused by the stone. Placebo effect and power of suggestion (even for your non-believing SO) form just one possible alternate explanation.

From the rest of your post, it sounds like you're predisposed to believe in unobservable effects, so if some particular situation or practice makes you feel better, great! I just have a hard time going from there to believing pseudo-scientific claims of earth energy or other woo. Especially in the case of the lightning-rod sandals from this thread.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Aww, I'm late. on 01/02/2014 10:29:15 MST Print View

You're both acting immature. This is some classic Max Dilthey activity and I'm bummed out that I missed it.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Aww, I'm late. on 01/02/2014 10:44:09 MST Print View

Ha. Hang in there Dilthey. I think Derek is gonna keep this train rolling.

Ryan

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Aww, I'm late. on 01/02/2014 10:47:19 MST Print View

"From the rest of your post, it sounds like you're predisposed to believe in unobservable effects, so if some particular situation or practice makes you feel better, great! "


No, i started out a hard core materialist, with only interest in science, until i started accumulating more and more experiences that kind of forced me to be more open minded to "unobservable effects" and explanations.

Being skeptical is great, but remember true scientific skepticism is also open minded and not certain. It's a way of not holding on to beliefs, perceptions and perspectives too tightly. Always questioning, always curious, always seeking the most expanded truth.

In my example, i said i was not certain of what the correlation or cause, or anything was.

Also, to understand placebo, you have to understand that yeah, it's largely unconscious, when it's unconscious. Meaning, if you consciously think something will not have an effect, and more over have an emotional attachment to that belief and thought, it's very highly unlikely that placebo effect is going to happen to the contrary.

Placebo effect is MOST noticed in the following situations. People are given a pill and told, this is a medicine and will help you with so and so. Not knowing any better, and having a preconceived belief in medical efficacy in general, and more over in the experts giving one medicine in the specific... In this case, they don't know better, they don't know it's a sugar pill or what not. Well, such a strong belief, might be enough to have an influence on the body.
The situation as described with my wife, is much different than the above in all the important aspects. She had a preconceived belief that nothing was going to happen. She only agreed to the experiment to prove me wrong.


The ironic thing is that placebo is so pervasive, and so strong at times, that scientifically speaking, it IS the pink elephant in the room in so much as conventional, mainstream science cannot even begin to really explain or even ALLOW for such effects to begin with. This plainly indicates there is a lot missing in our understanding and explanations...

Oh, the irony of it ;)


edited for spelling & arrangement, and addition of info

Edited by ArcturusBear on 01/02/2014 10:50:54 MST.

Derek Westcott
(drwestco) - F
Re: Re: Aww, I'm late. on 01/02/2014 10:53:29 MST Print View

"I think Derek is gonna keep this train rolling."

Nope. I pointed out the issues I had - no need to get sucked down the path of circular reasoning. One post is enough.. Except this one makes two, I guess. :-)

Piper S.
(sbhikes) - F

Locale: Santa Barbara (Name: Diane)
Re: Re: Re: Aww, I'm late. on 01/02/2014 13:04:38 MST Print View

Well, this topic has long gone off the rails, but I'll suggest these sandals as another alternative.

Native Earth Sandals

I hand made some exactly like these and they are absolutely the most comfortable sandals I've ever worn. They are secure, the toe thing doesn't rub at all, they slip on easily and being leather, they look pretty nice.

Now if only I could solve the foxtail problem and the scratching up the top of my foot on sharp plants problems...

Barry P
(BarryP) - F

Locale: Eastern Idaho (moved from Midwest)
Re: Earth Runner Sandals vs Exodus Sandals on 01/02/2014 13:14:37 MST Print View

I love sandals. That’s my main backpacking footwear 90% of the year. I NEED to wear socks with my sandals to eliminate blisters (eliminates sweat- especially on hot days). Socks keeps my feet warm in cold mountain air. Plus my permethrin-soaked socks has killed a lot of critters.

Earth Runners – I probably won’t try because I don’t like toe socks. And I’m not a fan of Vibram.
Exodus – Ouch, I can’t have anything around my big toe. Maybe the Chaco Z/2 ruined that perspective for me.

I tried a minimalist sandal in the Teva Northridge. They’re amazing. I wear them every day in the summer. Comfortable, Lightweight. But I did not like them backpacking. I liked the thicker and stiffer soles of their Tera Fi series. My feet didn’t tire out on 20 milers and the soul insulated very well from cold ground. And I didn’t pick up near as many rocks with the Tera Fi. Plus the Tera Fi was much better on scree and talus fields vs. the minimalist Northridge.

Good luck with your choice.

-Barry
-Footwear is more important than backpacks and vice versa.