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Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/03/2013 21:26:30 MST Print View

Not the tent's fly, your underwear's fly--I am looking for baselayers without flys. I hate them! Do other guys really use these? What's wrong with just pulling down your pants? That's more reasonable than asking your unit to take two or three reverse bends! On most of my baselayers I immediately sew up the fly, but am still left with an unnecessary wad of triple layer fabric in the front. I have been threatening to switch over to women's baselayers -- which seem MUCH more reasonably constructed -- but my wife says they probably won't fit. So: Any men's baselayers without the barn doors? Or will women's baselayers fit a man? I'm serious!!

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/03/2013 21:50:51 MST Print View

I like the fly

as does the little guy

Matt Weaver
(norcalweaver) - F

Locale: PacNW
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/03/2013 21:57:38 MST Print View

I like the fly too. Keeps me from having to undo my packs hip belt. Cause then if I undo the hip belt then I might as well remove the pack all together. And get more water. And sit down for a snack.

Flys keep me moving.

Edited by norcalweaver on 12/03/2013 22:37:46 MST.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/03/2013 21:58:16 MST Print View

I've found women's pants hit or miss. Sometimes they have had a too high of a rise crotch which isn't too comfortable, or too low rise waist. Definitely size up at the very least a size up than the men's stuff, often times better to go two full sizes up. Thankfully most baselayers tend to be on the stretchy side, so there is some leeway there.

Not sure what the problem with flys are though. Kind of nice when it's really cold out, not to dump extra heat by pulling pants down--you definitely dump much less heat via opening up flys.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/03/2013 22:13:05 MST Print View

I've never used a fly. Oh, once or twice I've tried, but contorted positioning and imperfect drainage put me off. I prefer UW and base layers without flies, but some styles just always seem to come with them.

Women's bottoms are typically shaped differently - wider hips, narrower waist, short legs. Most problematic, I find, is that there isn't enough "volume" in the crotch area. And, as someone noted, the rise (crotch to waist length) is longer in women's models than men's.

Perhaps search on "unisex" sizing - that would probably not have a fly and would be some intermediate or simply male-biased sizing.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Damnit, now I'm gonna start sewing. on 12/03/2013 22:30:59 MST Print View

Sparing you the intimacy, I've also found that the fly doesn't give me enough room to evacuate pants when nature calls, but the loss of volume in women's tights (I've tried Under Armor) threatened to end my family line.

You could sew the fly up along the seam of the fly's "door." Then, cut off the door. That way, the extra rectangle of material is removed and your pants are sealed up.

This is one of those things that I didn't remotely think about as a problem until you mentioned it, but now that I have, all I can think about is how many layers my Smartwool briefs have... THANKS.


P.S. my Go-Lite rain pants are women's and they both fit perfectly and have a fly. More relevantly, perhaps the women's Go-Lite baselayers will suit the male form.

Edited by mdilthey on 12/03/2013 22:32:20 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/03/2013 22:36:30 MST Print View

I make our (Sue and I) bush clothing - there are MYOG articles on it. But I don't think I have ever bothered to put a fly in. Couldn't see the need.

Cheers

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Damnit, now I'm gonna start sewing. on 12/03/2013 22:44:42 MST Print View

That's another reason to make your own : )

As far as usage goes, either way works, but since no fly works, why put in a fly?

I've made underwear but I like the pre-made ones better. The fly on them isn't so bad, not so many layers of fabric, but I never use it.

I think flies are just convention. Several hundred years ago they became fashionable, and now they just keep making them because that's how it's done.

Stephen Komae
(skomae) - MLife

Locale: northeastern US
I like the Fly on 12/03/2013 23:21:41 MST Print View

How else am I supposed to pee while wearing a harness? And since my hiking clothes do double duty as climbing clothes, they sure as heck had better have a fly.

Edited by skomae on 12/03/2013 23:22:17 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/03/2013 23:27:57 MST Print View

"Couldn't see the need"

He must be a little fellow :)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/03/2013 23:43:30 MST Print View

"Couldn't see the need"

He must be a little fellow :)"

No - you're the one that says you have a little fellow : )

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Flywork on 12/03/2013 23:48:33 MST Print View

So! A lot of guys actually use the fly.

OK, as you were, gentlemen. I won't inveigh against tradition. If your mouse runs through the maze, more power to you.

I will continue my girlish ways, and try the Go-Lite, search for "unisex," or just sew my unders up and remove those silly extra layers.

I swear, the most recent baselayers I purchased had a pad in front, the thickness (and flexibility!) of a catcher's mitt. Ugh! Returned. I confess to staring at the women's underwear in the Campmor catalog with envy.

Edited by Bolster on 12/03/2013 23:58:44 MST.

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 00:09:52 MST Print View

Icebreaker makes wool briefs and boxers w/o a fly.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 00:42:44 MST Print View

one thing to note is that the doubled/tripled fabric actually serves a purpose ...

for those who perform do high intensity outdoor sports in winter ... cold groins are no laughing matter .. this is especially true of people like runners or cyclist who wear winter thermal tights ... extra fabric there helps keep a high heat loss sensitive area a bit warmer ...

Whether you're hiking, skiing, or mountaineering, keeping your extremities warm is a crucial part of winter survival. Much attention is paid to various combinations of hats, gloves, mittens, boots and socks but, unfortunately, they all overlook another important extremity, the male appendage.

This is nothing to laugh about; it's quite painful! If you've been unfortunate enough to experience a frozen frankie, you know this is a serious matter. Few other weather-related injuries can make you curl up and beg for death. Of course, this "condition" only makes itself known after you're miles from the trailhead and committed to your route.


http://www.headbaby.com/icepick.htm

its enough of an issue that the make a polartec thermal pro "sock" for the male anatomy ...



http://thermajock.com/

;)

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 00:43:08 MST Print View

I was spending the night in one of those pretty fancy tent rentals in Yosemite one time (this on was at white wolf, so not even one of the ones away from the road) with a woman I was hanging out with at the time. There was a small wood stove provided, but it was pretty cold before I got it stoked up, and she didn't really have any long underwear, and was freezing. I had an extra pair of patagonia tights that I assumed would be just the ticket, and offered them to her. When she saw that they had a fly she refused to wear them. She would rather freeze than even put on long underwear with a fly. Anyway, that was the moment I knew she wasn't the girl for me. LOL Too high maintenance!

So not only you Delmar!

Still they do seem very old fashioned. I can't remember the last time I used one. Rather than being a convenience they seem, um, kinda fussy and awkward to actually use. Possibly I was inadequately potty trained in my youth, but I am as likely to make a mess of it as not attempting to make use of one. And what do they protect when using it anyway? The most sensitive stuff gets exposed to the elements. I think they are like the marble Greek temples that maintained stone representations of the features of the old wooden temples, like the places where the wooden cross beams had been, 500 years after the last wooden temple - just cause that is how it was done.

I've also had a pair of tights with an additional rear "fly", and not the old style huge buttoned flap grampa had in his long johns. It was the same "mazey" design as briefs, just bigger and in the back. What's with that? If I can't safety use the front one with equipment that can write my name in the snow, why in the world would I try to use the rear fly?

Edited by millonas on 12/04/2013 02:22:49 MST.

J R
(JRinGeorgia) - F
gram weenie on 12/04/2013 04:53:12 MST Print View

Cutting out the fly to save weight? That brings new meaning to the term "gram weenie." :P

FWIW I have some inexpensive Costco baselayers, Paradox brand, with no fly. They are 11-12% merino and the rest synthetic.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Re: Flywork on 12/04/2013 06:43:20 MST Print View

>"I confess to staring at the women's underwear in the Campmor catalog with envy."

I do it because the colors are always nicer...

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 06:43:46 MST Print View

Why oh why did they put a fly on the undies that covers my willy?
I can bend and roll and still miss the hole, so the (w)hole thing seems rather silly.
What's even worse, and seems like a curse, is the damn thing won't even catch leaks!
So I'd prefer, I suppose, if they just made them closed, and leave flies for the stream beds and creeks....

Sorry, it's early and I'm not quite awake yet.....

Edited by idester on 12/04/2013 06:44:18 MST.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 07:15:21 MST Print View

Those fly openings are not large enough for my multitool.

Edited by jshann on 12/04/2013 07:16:08 MST.

Buck Nelson
(Colter) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Not something I get excited about. on 12/04/2013 07:16:30 MST Print View

I swear, the most recent baselayers I purchased had a pad in front, the thickness (and flexibility!) of a catcher's mitt.

Really. You swear that? :)

I use the fly in my base layer. And the fly in my pants as well. I find it useful when it's thirty below and the wind is howling. No reverse bends are necessary if you hold the fly(s) open during use.

And Eric has a point. Running or skiing in extreme cold in Alaska I've often added a layer in the fly area and I know many other men who do as well.

scree ride
(scree)
fly on 12/04/2013 07:18:46 MST Print View

As long as the fly is well covered, I can skimp elsewhere and save weight.
Check out the Houdini Wind Boxers.

Richard Fischel
(RICKO) - F
there a numerous base layer options without a fly. on 12/04/2013 07:19:08 MST Print View

i have several pair of running tights (including patagonia), none of which have a fly. i also have several pairs of under armour heatgear boxer briefs, which do not have a fly. ua also makes men's tights and leggings that are sans fly. my favoirte style of fly in technical outerwear are the ones that go from bottom up as well as from top down so your waist belt or climbing harness doesn't get in the way of the zipper.

spelt !
(spelt) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Flywork on 12/04/2013 07:37:58 MST Print View

Delmar,
A lot of men's compression shorts will not have a fly. I can only vouch for Underarmour since I have it, but I know I've seen other brands in stores without. Another option is underwear marketed to gay men. If you're considering women's underwear already, I assume the Undergear catalog won't be an affront to you. Plus they also come in fun colors. :)

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
The Other Fly on 12/04/2013 08:11:37 MST Print View

"Why oh why did they put a fly on the undies that covers my willy?
I can bend and roll and still miss the hole, so the (w)hole thing seems rather silly.
What's even worse, and seems like a curse, is the damn thing won't even catch leaks!
So I'd prefer, I suppose, if they just made them closed, and leave flies for the stream beds and creeks...."

Hey Doug, put a sock in it! (so to speak)

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: The Other Fly on 12/04/2013 08:21:51 MST Print View

"Hey Doug, put a sock in it! (so to speak)"

Okay, but remember, you told me to....

Why not just use a sock to cover your ..... stock? Seems like it'd work just as well.
Wool would be keen, but don't use neoprene. That's one place you don't want VBL....

AJ Groff
(AJGroff) - F

Locale: Midwest
The Other Fly on 12/04/2013 08:45:01 MST Print View

+1 on the Paradox brand at Costco. Although they don't have much wool, they have no fly, and seem to have held well for me the last couple years.

Link .
(annapurna) - MLife
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 08:48:44 MST Print View

I prefer mine without the fly :)

scree ride
(scree)
DEET on 12/04/2013 08:52:44 MST Print View

and a good bath. No more flies.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 09:24:14 MST Print View

I once got a snowboarding polyester baselayer by brand: http://www.hotchillys.com
it was no fly.

you can also look into the spandex leggings that ballet ballerina dudes wear. I don't know what those dudes call themselves. but they wouldn't have a front fly with their bottom outfit.

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Poet Laureate on 12/04/2013 09:30:40 MST Print View

A truly informative and entertaining thread.

I'd like to nominate Doug I. as poet laureate of BPL, do I hear a second?

VA S
(VA) - F
Try some! on 12/04/2013 09:48:18 MST Print View

Ok, lady chiming in. For MOST of my outdoors clothes I buy men's stuff - bought a men's 800 fp hoodie just last night - and always have. I am 5'11" with broad shoulders and most men's stuff just fits better... BUT I HATE MEN'S base layers! I tried a pair of my ex's once in a cold situation...while I did wear them - hate to be cold - I hated the extra material and SPACE, lol. I think you should just buy a few pair of women's long underwear and give it a shot. I ADORE my Pat. Cap4 baselayers....warm, stretchy and low-rise.

Good luck!

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Low-rise Waistline on 12/04/2013 10:19:53 MST Print View

That brings up a good point.

Why do I want all the waistlines lining up at exactly the same point, anyway? Why not allow the baselayer to be low-rise?

spelt !
(spelt) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Low-rise Waistline on 12/04/2013 11:28:38 MST Print View

Because depending on the size/shape of your butt, low rise could mean "slips down and requires constant hiking up." Something to consider.

VA S
(VA) - F
agreed - like low rise on 12/04/2013 12:20:21 MST Print View

I agree that having all my waist bands lined up - or worse - my base layer waist ABOVE my pants waist, is not a good thing. Yeah, you don't want toooo low, but low enough to not have 'bunching'. For me, that means I wouldn't buy base layers in the 'Junior' or 'teen' area of a store....not that they sell them(?)But I think any reputable brand will consider that most of us don't have quite the girlish figure we used too, lol. )Even being pretty tall the average low-rise base layer is not all that low...) But, again, when I read the reviews on say, Sierra Trading I avoid anything that says it rides high.

Edited by VA on 12/04/2013 12:20:59 MST.

Buck Nelson
(Colter) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Is it a problem or a peeve? on 12/04/2013 12:39:42 MST Print View

On most of my baselayers I immediately sew up the fly, but am still left with an unnecessary wad of triple layer fabric in the front.

I just looked at several sets of long underwear bottoms. All the flies were two layer. Do you really have triple layer flies?

If you feel the fly is unnecessary, that's totally your call. But why do you want to sew up the fly? Is maybe four square inches of doubled insulation (in likely the best place to have doubled insulation) really a significant problem, or just one of things that peeve a person?

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 17:14:29 MST Print View

"Do other guys really use these?"

Oh yeah, a lot.

"What's wrong with just pulling down your pants? That's more reasonable than asking your unit to take two or three reverse bends!"

In the winter in sub freezing weather, with a 30 mph wind? Try it once and then ask the unit. After it thaws out. I'll bet it would volunteer to do a half dozen reverse bends before it went out in that kind of cold again.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Not something I get excited about. on 12/04/2013 17:18:08 MST Print View

"I've often added a layer in the fly area and I know many other men who do as well."

I used to use a pair of briefs with a GoreTex patch sewn into the crotch by the manufacturer. Worked like a charm, and it had a fly.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: The Other Fly on 12/04/2013 17:27:38 MST Print View

"Hey Doug, put a sock in it! (so to speak)"

Caution some folks may find this link offensive, but the sock has met the local tests for civility.

The Sock

:)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: The Other Fly on 12/04/2013 17:39:51 MST Print View

Don't google "codpiece"

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Cross Examination on 12/04/2013 18:02:06 MST Print View

Gee, Buck, you sound so incredulous! You’re not practicing to be an attorney, are you? To answer a few of your questions:

> Do you really have triple layer flies?

Uh…yeah. You’re forgetting the turned over hem, aren’t you? On the piece I’m examining right now, in some places the fly is FIVE layers thick, where a turned hem crosses under a seam. Makes for a bunched wad of fabric in all the wrong areas, if you ask me.

> But why do you want to sew up the fly?

You’ve never gotten yours unintentionally hung up in the fly mechanism? Maybe we’re anatomically different, but this happens to me a fair amount. Even though I don't use the fly, it is a lurking trap door. You fly-boys are aware that lots of mens briefs are made withOUT the trap door these days? Might even say it's something of a trend.

> ...really a significant problem, or just one of things that peeve a person?

How do I answer that? You say poe-tay-toe, I say puh-tat-oah, It’s irritating enough I am looking for alternatives. Satisfactory?

You cold weather guys have given me a different perspective on the fly, though. I seldom carry my unit into really cold weather (being a desert dweller myself) and I can see that manifold layers of insulation, and a tiny trap door for access, and maybe even a gore-tex vestibule, might actually come in handy in sub-freezing weather. So, point taken, metaphorically speaking.

Since this thread got so much attention, I did a bit of research and found another hilarious thread, where 228 people voted on whether they use the fly for urination (including apparently 32 women who voted). In the longstanding tradition of open-mindedness and a profound respect of diversity, the thread is primarily devoted to abusing and mocking people who pee differently than themselves:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=631563

Let’s just say that the fly has been manfully defended in this thread. You like ‘em, I don’t, and I guess I’ll be buying women’s underwear. Now if I can just keep ‘em away from the wife.

PS: Thanks to all who submitted flyless alternatives, I'll be checking those out.

Edited by Bolster on 12/04/2013 18:18:00 MST.

spelt !
(spelt) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: The Other Fly on 12/04/2013 18:35:52 MST Print View

I saw a knitting pattern for that kind of sock before. Wish I would have saved it.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Cross Examination on 12/04/2013 18:36:02 MST Print View

Well Delmar,

I have to admit that this thread is much more entertaining and fun than 99.99% of the gear threads.

spelt !
(spelt) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Re: The Other Fly on 12/04/2013 18:52:44 MST Print View

That thread is hilarious, oh my.

Gerald L
(Mtngeronimo) - F

Locale: SoCal
Sorting it all out on 12/04/2013 19:05:41 MST Print View

I first joined BPL for the great advice and experience of the community (and of course the gear deals) but am now quite alarmed. First it was the JMT pencil dilema and now the 'fly' or 'no fly' debacle. I am so confused! I'm thinking of just selling all my gear and buying a motorhome. Or do you think a lighter weight tent tailer would be a better option? : /

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Sorting it all out on 12/04/2013 19:09:05 MST Print View

It's all good. Don't limit yourself.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 19:17:16 MST Print View

I've never used a fly before. Only inadvertently while wearing pajamas.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Sorting it all out on 12/04/2013 20:02:45 MST Print View

"Or do you think a lighter weight tent tailer would be a better option? : /"

As long as it has a fly. ;o)

Ed Biermann
(longstride) - F
Re: The Other Fly , One question on 12/04/2013 20:06:10 MST Print View

Delmar. Boxers or briefs?

Mature men in tighty whities gives me nightmares

briefs

Edited by longstride on 12/04/2013 20:06:46 MST.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: The Other Fly --The Ridiculous One in your Baselayer on 12/04/2013 20:28:44 MST Print View

The women of BPL must be shaking their heads and rolling their eyes at us... thinking to themselves, "tsk tsk, do they ever think about anything other than their 'precious' packages???"

John Hillyer
(TrNameLucky) - MLife
Never with a fly on 12/04/2013 20:43:38 MST Print View

I would never use baselayer pants with a fly. I never use a fly and want to be able to wear the baselayer as an outerlayer if conditions warrant and wouldn't ever do that if it had a fly.

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Outerwear on 12/04/2013 20:56:36 MST Print View

Excellent point, John.

I have a pair of "bicycle" type mid-thigh shorts that work either as outer shorts or as underwear. Couldn't use 'em as outers with a fly!

Yes, apologies to our beloved women for this thread, although I suspect they are mightily amused. And I would point out that if THEY had units like we do, then THEY would be thinking about them all the time, just as we do!

Don't criticize us, women, until you walk a mile in OUR thick, bunched-up underwear. You'll find out why we want yours...!

Edited by Bolster on 12/04/2013 20:59:11 MST.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Re: Outerwear on 12/04/2013 21:05:05 MST Print View

Running tights are just so much better than long underwear. Much more durable and practical if you are going to hike in them. I like the golite fleece lined tights, very warm and no fly.

Benji Hons
(BenjiH) - M
FLy or no fly on 12/06/2013 20:12:34 MST Print View

I have a pair of underarmor briefs with no fly, and i often undo the fly of my hiking pants/baselayer and unpleasantly discover that I forgot the undies dont have a fly and have to drop trow any ways... time for new undies I guess.

To each his own....

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/07/2013 19:22:04 MST Print View

It's apparent that many don't understand what the fly design is for.

The BUTTON fly is designed for the same purpose as a zipper. open the garage door and drive the bus out. Simple. fine.

The overlapping double curtain fly on the classic men's underwear is not designed to be an exit port. It's to maintain coverage during reduced and expanded cargo situation. It's design for comfort stretch without risking exposure or restricting blood flow. It is NOT designed as an exit port. Those that have tried to drive the straight long bus out of the S-shaped driveway found out that it fails.

so really the overlapping double curtain fly is for retractable expandable comfort. One size to fit for all occasions.

To pee with an overlapping double curtain fly, they were designed to be used the same way as the spandex bicycle shorts (or girl underwear) - pull down in the front and drive out.

The most functional and the least fashionable are the gold miner farmer john overall design. with a rear button flat for #2, and a front button flap for #1.

Farmer John can keep his demin overalls on, while going #1, #2, in the freezing cold, without risking exposure to the elements.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 13:24:27 MST Print View

"The overlapping double curtain fly on the classic men's underwear is not designed to be an exit port. It's to maintain coverage during reduced and expanded cargo situation. It's design for comfort stretch without risking exposure or restricting blood flow. It is NOT designed as an exit port. "

WOW! That actually made sense! A mystery since I was born... now resolved. Thanks. Also good to know I was actually doing it right all along.

I who'da thunkit on a thread made up mostly of pee jokes. Sometime you just gotta stick it out to the 3rd or 4th page! ;-)

Edited by millonas on 12/08/2013 13:27:10 MST.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 17:18:25 MST Print View

"The overlapping double curtain fly on the classic men's underwear is not designed to be an exit port. It's to maintain coverage during reduced and expanded cargo situation. It's design for comfort stretch without risking exposure or restricting blood flow. It is NOT designed as an exit port. Those that have tried to drive the straight long bus out of the S-shaped driveway found out that it fails.

so really the overlapping double curtain fly is for retractable expandable comfort. One size to fit for all occasions."

I've read this over several times now, and I still don't have a clue what you're reasoning is. I've somehow managed to snake the unit thru that double curtain with no trouble at all for many, many years, even in pitch dark, and occasionally in conditions where dropping trou would have resulted in borderline frostbite. Today was a good example, hiking in temperatures that varied from 19 degrees F to 24 degrees F. Pulling one's pants down to pee, thereby exposing tender bits to the elements, when there is a convenient port clearly(at least to me) designed to be used for just that, seems a bit peculiar, to say the least. Perhaps if one exists in a state of perpetual tumescence.....

J R
(JRinGeorgia) - F
Re: The Other Fly on 12/08/2013 17:49:09 MST Print View

"Sometime you just gotta stick it out..."

Pun intended?

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 20:24:44 MST Print View

@ Tom Kirchner,

May be my Garage/Long Bus analogy didn't transfer well for everyone.

How about this analogy, I'm sure everyone could relate to.

Imagine if you are inside a 1-Person, 1-Door tent.

Imagine that the only door is the same design as the men's underwear with the overlapping double curtain.

Now imagine again that you are trying to get out of that tent, through those overlapping double curtain. You would have to snake S-shape out of that exit door.

Feasible, just not ideal.

Now, let's imagine (or not imagine!) that the person inside the tent got really fat and doubled their height, width, girth and weight. Again, trying to exit out of that overlapping double curtain is getting more difficult.

I can only take these analogies so far before I get more Google ads about the rated x topics.

Edited by RogerDodger on 12/08/2013 20:25:17 MST.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 20:43:19 MST Print View

"Now, let's imagine (or not imagine!) that the person inside the tent got really fat and doubled their height, width, girth and weight. Again, trying to exit out of that overlapping double curtain is getting more difficult."

And all this time I thought we were talking about p'ing. IME, p'ing and tumescence are a functional oxymoron.

Now let's sit back and see what Google does with tumescence. ;0)

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 21:24:54 MST Print View

Goodness gracious...what would you guys all do if you had to totally drop trou and squat to the ground each and every time you had to pee.

I believe this is what is known as a First World Problem.

But I must admit to being terribly entertained. Can we talk about pee rags now?

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 21:33:15 MST Print View

Roger must be one of those weirdos that likes to have sex with his pants on.

Edited by justin_baker on 12/08/2013 21:33:51 MST.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 22:14:52 MST Print View

Jennifer, if I was reincarnated as a X X chromosome, I'd invest in a she-wee product for #1. I recommend them to my sister and niece when they travel to non-sanitary, and potentially unsafe locations, where "drop trou" is serious concern, for weather and vulnerability.

Dudes still drop trou for #2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmJKY59NX8o

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 22:16:26 MST Print View

@Justin Baker

duuude!

Edited by RogerDodger on 12/08/2013 22:17:10 MST.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 22:20:54 MST Print View

"Can we talk about pee rags now?"

@Jennifer

Skurka covered that quite well. I learned stuff I didn't want to know. ha!

http://andrewskurka.com/2013/female-hygiene-guide-tips/

but feel free to engage the BPL dudettes on this forum for their opinion.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 22:53:28 MST Print View

So Roger, so while I actually accept your panel logic, it still seems hard to fit my "rear fly" tights neatly into the theory. Are you saying the rear fly is there to fit different butt shapes? I suppose I could possibly buy that. As stupid as it sounds, it makes WAY more sense than a mazey slot for doing #2 in the cold. I've never seen those anywhere else so possibly this is a total aberration. On the other hand they are Patagonia, so one likes to believe they were well thought out. Maybe there are like the stamps that got printed with the upside-down plane 100 years ago - now they are worth millions because of the mistake.

Edited by millonas on 12/08/2013 22:57:41 MST.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 22:55:35 MST Print View

I apologize for not concealing my remark in a heavy layer of innuendo.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/08/2013 23:49:45 MST Print View

Mark
For doing #2 with minimal exposure to the elements:
the farmer johns, long johns rear flap, aka Red union suits, or drop seat back...
There is no mazey slot for #2. it's a couple of buttons or velcro, on a square rear butt flap.
I spend an entire 30 secs to find these style designs.

http://www.pajamacity.com/data/default/images/catalog/390/Z-JH-PN-alt3.jpg

http://img1.etsystatic.com/019/1/5283030/il_340x270.527825317_oc2j.jpg

and the Renaissance 1800s fashion design:
http://janeaustensworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/top-flap-trousers.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc102/19thcentury/vintagetextile.jpg


Though this a topic drift from the OP regarding doing #1 and the underwear front anti-ergonomic sewing.


looks like a MYOG project for an ultra gear/clothes geek

Edited by RogerDodger on 12/08/2013 23:53:56 MST.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/09/2013 00:36:08 MST Print View

"Mark
For doing #2 with minimal exposure to the elements:
the farmer johns, long johns rear flap, aka Red union suits, or drop seat back...
There is no mazey slot for #2. it's a couple of buttons or velcro, on a square rear butt flap. I spend an entire 30 secs to find these style designs."

Roger,

You are not paying attention! I've been telling you I HAVE some Patagonia tights/long underwear with a rear fly that is fashioned (inexplicably) exactly like the usual *overlapping* style we have been talking about. Exactly, except they are a bit bigger, say about twice as big.

I am tempted to send you a picture, but I feel I need to know someone better before I send them photos of my underwear. Paying attention when I talk might be a good start. *sniff*

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/09/2013 00:45:31 MST Print View

don't send such photos. I recluse myself from this thread.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
This on 12/09/2013 00:59:11 MST Print View

"don't send such photos. I recluse myself from this thread."

Oh that is a good enough reason for me!


Front:

front


Back:



rear

Design - same. Size - a bit more than twice as big. Overlap in back, about 5 inches. Craziness - priceless.

Who the hell designed this? I suppose you could hold it open with both hands, but that scenario is...problematical.

Eric's assertion that this overlap is for "protection from the elements" - problematical in this case.

I'm telling you this is a bonafide fake wooden facade on a marble Greek temple - there is no use, and no function, as far as I can see.

Edited by millonas on 12/09/2013 01:09:09 MST.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: This on 12/09/2013 11:26:04 MST Print View

the traditional rear flat is about the size of full size printer paper 8.5x11

yea that rear design is weird. definitely not functional for #2 being high maintenance to operate with dedicated 2 hands, and high risk for garment contamination.

could be:
1) an expansion stretch adaptation for old folks with incontinence that wear Depends brand adult diapers (unlikely)
2) a design defect or failed poorly designed (probably)
3) some alternative lifestyle product -not going there- but we do call them Patagucci...
4) hey you bought it. :)

Edited by RogerDodger on 12/09/2013 11:28:11 MST.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: This on 12/09/2013 11:31:50 MST Print View

LOL

Yeah, ashamed to admit I thought of all those, but was too meek to suggest them. We could add (5) holder for heat packs (6) additional hidden storage area, perhaps for keys and money, like a money belt (7) actually designed to be used as a team, one to hold it open, the other to wipe....and so on. (whoops, looks like I may have just lost my license to make fun of pee jokes!)

Yeah, I know about the "grampa's long johns flaps". I mentioned them in my first post. I always think of some ice fisherman in MN sitting on a port-o-potty on a frozen lake using those.

Edited by millonas on 12/09/2013 11:37:35 MST.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/09/2013 15:42:00 MST Print View

"Goodness gracious...what would you guys all do if you had to totally drop trou and squat to the ground each and every time you had to pee."

Get a sex change.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/09/2013 22:24:20 MST Print View

Tom....

THAT has to be the best post of 2013!

Ben Smith
(bsmith_90) - F - M

Locale: Epping Forest
wait so... on 12/09/2013 22:27:30 MST Print View

you mean you guys don't all get into your birthday suit to answer natures call?

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
flap on 12/09/2013 22:29:57 MST Print View

If I see any of you on the trail wearing butt flap pants, I reserve the right to laugh hysterically at you.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: flap on 12/10/2013 16:26:58 MST Print View

"If I see any of you on the trail wearing butt flap pants, I reserve the right to laugh hysterically at you."

If you see anybody with their butt flap pants visible, you'd best save your breath for running in the opposite direction. ;=]

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/10/2013 16:28:03 MST Print View

"THAT has to be the best post of 2013!"

Even a blind squirrel occasionally happens upon a nut. ;)

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/10/2013 16:59:20 MST Print View

Tom,

I don't know where you get all those great sayings. Sometimes I think you must have grown up in the South. Two of my employees live in the South and their country sayings keep me in stitches when I travel with them.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/10/2013 17:26:11 MST Print View

"I don't know where you get all those great sayings. Sometimes I think you must have grown up in the South.

Long ago, before being banished to Little Rock by my boss for indiscretions with his secretary, I picked up a copy of Jefferson Davis' Little Red Book in order to ingratiate myself with the natives. Even longer ago, I watched Song of the South many times as a little boy. After a while, even a pussified San Francisco liberal like me got the hang of it....

"Two of my employees live in the South and their country sayings keep me in stitches when I travel with them."

Just don't let them talk you into a float trip down the Cahulawassee River. ;0]

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/10/2013 19:42:28 MST Print View

"Just don't let them talk you into a float trip down the Cahulawassee River"

Well...

All I can say is that











whitey-tighties have a fly.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLy or no fly - what the double curtain fly is for. on 12/10/2013 20:20:38 MST Print View

"whitey-tighties have a fly."

:)

Heather Hohnholz
(Hawke) - M
Us gals on 12/11/2013 19:43:34 MST Print View

I just have to weigh in here, for a moment.

A) I find this thread hilarious. Watching men talk about their junk, junk holders, and widely varied methods of evacuation in thinly veiled innuendo is the most entertaining thing I've done all week.

B) Pee rags are the best thing evar.

C) @Tom & sex change...ROFL

D) I'm kinda glad all I have to do is drop trou and mind the wind. All this double-curtaining, s-bending, two-handing stuff seems complicated.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Us gals on 12/11/2013 19:46:53 MST Print View

"All this double-curtaining, s-bending, two-handing stuff seems complicated."

That's all testosterone-fueled bluster. We know that most of the posters in this thread only need to one-hand it.....

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Us gals on 12/11/2013 19:51:07 MST Print View

"That's all testosterone-fueled bluster. We know that most of the posters in this thread only need to one-hand it....."

Off my chair sideways and on the floor.

@Heather. Thanks for baiting Doug into the conversation. ;0)