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Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Ultralight Hard Bottle? on 11/24/2013 20:08:17 MST Print View

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005EVORX6/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?qid=1385347703&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70

http://m.containerstore.com/mt/www.containerstore.com/shop/?productId=10030821

Your criteria for a "hard sided" bottle is stringent, the only reason I'm posting a link to a possible solution is so this thread can come to some resolution.

A 24oz cycling bottle works great on the bike and in the pack for backpacking trips. I've been interchanging the same bottles on the bike, for trail running and racing, and backpacking trips for the last 6 years or so without a single one failing. How are you going through bottles every few weeks? Whatever incremental savings or gains you think you'll get in your quest for an alternative solution aren't worth it IMO.

Good luck.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Sorry, I thought this was the gear forum.... on 11/24/2013 20:22:53 MST Print View

Alright, don't get grouchy, Eugene.

I said I went through cheap bottles (like Smartwater bottles) every few weeks. Dents turn into creases, creases turn into holes. A cycling bottle lasts much longer, but it's heavy enough to be a Nalgene as far as capacity to weight goes.

I could just use a generic cycling bottle and waste a few ounces and satisfy your need for silence... or I could come to the ultralight backpacking forums looking for an ultralight solution.

You're not obliged to comment and just because you can't see the use in a hard-sided bottle doesn't invalidate my question. If you don't have anything to offer, simply ignore the thread. There's a lot more off-topic stuff floating around, so I have little sympathy that a thread specific to ultralight gear isn't coming to a resolution as quickly as you want it to.

This thread is useful. People who do ultra-running use hard bottles on the shoulder straps of their packs. Knowing one great ultralight solution is a nice way to shave ounces. I assumed someone happened upon an UL solution, and a few people have some great info so far.


That being said, neither of your suggestions appear even remotely ultralight, and appear to have more features than a cycling bottle. I think you just googled the word "bottle" to try and remind me that I should stop asking questions you don't like.

Fiji looks good, I will likely opt for testing those out.

Edited by mdilthey on 11/24/2013 20:28:23 MST.

Steve G
(sgrobben) - M

Locale: Ohio
Re: Sorry, I thought this was the gear forum.... on 11/24/2013 20:33:39 MST Print View

Sounds like you are looking for "hard-sided" due to puncture resistance in future bike crashes? If so, why not just change the placement so your water isn't ejected or abraded.

If a lightweight stiff bottle (that hasn't been mentioned) existed I imagine it would be quite popular and would be widely used.

For the very slight weight penalty the purist/podium bottles are bombproof.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
I Am Not Asking Stupid Questions on 11/24/2013 20:44:32 MST Print View

Alright, I don't want to go on trial for asking for a bottle. This is a little ridiculous.

NO, I'm not looking for a bottle for bicycle crashes.

I mentioned seeing a Platypus break as an example of a potential risk in arid environments that could be avoided with a hard-sided bottle. After popping a platy, I decided I wanted to look into how much of a weight penalty a hard-sided bottle is. I know that basic cycling bottles exist, but they have a cap the size of a Nalgene bottle and a shape designed for bottle cages that uses more plastic than a regular cylinder or rectangle. In short, they're NOT minimalist.

The Fiji bottle is a good example of a volume-maximizing shape with a minimalist cap. The Fiji is what I am looking for, assuming it is a bit more durable than a Poland Spring or Smartwater bottle over a few weeks.


Maybe you don't care about a few extra ounces. Fine! Have at it! Use a cycling bottle! If you don't have a suggestion, simply resist the urge to post telling me you don't think it's a valid question!

Also, someone posting one correct answer doesn't mean the thread is over. It's not a big deal to wait and see if anyone else has an additional suggestion.


BOTTOM LINE: If you don't have a bottle suggestion, you don't need to post.


You guys are acting like ultralight queries are banned here... we've had 4-page discussions on toothbrushes...

Michael Ray
(thaddeussmith) - F
Lighten up dude on 11/24/2013 21:01:19 MST Print View

I think the larger issue is that you have mutually exclusive criteria. You want hard sided and non-plastic.. But the suggestions are too heavy. Ok, light and plastic... But the suggestions aren't hard sided. Grr. Hard sided and light, but the suggestions are plastic. Or the top is too big. Or it won't last an infinity number of years. You need to pick which two criteria are most important and accept some penalty in the third. You're young and smart enough to know how google works, which means you're having no better luck in finding a solution to your very stringent criteria. So cut people some slack.

Sounds like you need to gather some smart people and launch a kickstarter campaign for the perfect water container.

I use a sawyer squeeze and accept that the pouches will eventually fail. They're cheap enough to replace as needed and light enough to carry an emergency spare rolled up inside my pack.

Google "law of diminishing returns", "all the things in the world that will kill me", and "how to have reasonable expectations for the world around me".







That last little bit was intentional snark ;)

Bily Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: I Am Not Asking Stupid Questions on 11/24/2013 21:01:56 MST Print View

Gee Max,

I really don't have an answer for you.

But I'm getting a little bored with this thread.

Do you mind ending this and moving on to something more interesting?

thanks so much,

Bill :)

Ed Biermann
(longstride) - F
Re: Ultralight Hard Bottle? on 11/24/2013 21:03:04 MST Print View

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=82490

I like Dave C's response.

David Gardner
(GardnerOutdoorLD) - M

Locale: Northern California
Re: I Am Not Asking Stupid Questions on 11/24/2013 21:14:19 MST Print View

Max, I formerly used two 20 oz Gatorade bottles, which weighed 40.1 grams each. So 80.2 grams for a total capacity of 40 oz.

Now I am using three 16 oz aluminum beer bottles which weigh 26.7 grams each. So 80.1 grams for a total capacity of 48 oz.

The real weight saving benefit for me comes in being able to leave my 28.3 gram Foster's can and lid at home, and heat my water for meals directly in the aluminum beer bottles. Uncapped, of course. I do have to watch closely to keep it from boiling over and grab it off the stove right at the moment a full boil is reached.

The aluminum of the beer bottles is pretty thick, about 2/3 again thicker than a regular beer can, based on weight vs. diameter and capacity. Pretty puncture resistant, though I don't know how it would compare in a worst case scenario vs. the Gatorade bottles or a Platypus.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
plastic on 11/24/2013 21:35:08 MST Print View

Check out some of the water bottles at your local health food/ organic store. I found some that are BPA free and are a blue color. These are a little thicker than regular water bottles.

I consider regular water bottles Aquafina, Dasani etc extremley bomber. Im almost positive you could make one last a whole year being used 365 days a year. They do not puncture or shatter like hard bottles might. There is a reason why reg bottles are so popular, they are cheap too, and easily replacable. Oh yeah, and light.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
The More You Know on 11/24/2013 21:48:46 MST Print View

Yea, sorry if I didn't delineate my criteria too much.


-Cheap water bottles (Aquafina, Gatorade, etc) leach phthalates over time (say that 3 times fast!). A phthalate is a chemical with a really weak covalent bond that breaks off of plastics over time through regular use, right into your water.

Here's more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phthalate

Long story short, phthalates have been linked to breast cancer, endocrine disruption, and lots of other not-so-nice conditions. So, I'm happy to buy a soda and drink it, but I'm not going to re-use it for longer than a couple of days. The older your plastic bottles get, the higher your exposure is.

High-quality BPA-free plastics like those found in cycling bottles and Nalgenes don't leach as much, as fast. I still replace em every year or so, but I don't stress about it.


What's this mean for a hard-sided bottle?

It means I'm looking for something that isn't from the recycling bin. If the Fuji bottles are higher quality plastic (still investigating) they'll do.

After this thread, I need the tropical island effect. I feel like you guys are just getting on the anti-bottle-thread bandwagon at this point. Seriously, it is not that hard to ignore a thread and refrain from commenting uselessly... thank you!

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: The More You Know on 11/24/2013 22:03:14 MST Print View

You are sensitive to used water bottles. There is no problem with that. I consider an ultralight water bottle to weigh less than 1.5 oz. for a 1 liter size. Is that a fair definition? If not, you would need to define your weight restriction and then we might help further.

Edited by jshann on 11/24/2013 22:03:55 MST.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Oh, I see how it is! on 11/24/2013 22:06:42 MST Print View

"Go home, Max! We don't want your bottle thread here! You're asking too much! Get lost!"

"Gatorade or Death!!!"


HA. Wrong! There is a hard sided bottle that weighs less than a nalgene with UL-specific properties, and I found it thanks to this thread!

http://www.bradleyalpinist.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=211

Big cap for use with gloves, super durable and flexible to prevent cracking, weighs LESS than a Nalgene, and is BPA free.

Thread closed.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
chemicals on 11/24/2013 22:10:45 MST Print View

" But chemicals, I can avoid.

So I try to, if I can."

Well, you can avoid SOME chemical exposure routes.
But is it even a significant portion?
Probably not.

You are surrounded and bombarded by chemicals in virtually every thing manmade. Everything you touch, wear, sit-on, and use.
And even, ....breathe.

The question is, does any of it matter.
Undoubtedbly it does.
Its just near impossible to isolate and correllate any cause-effect from anything over 40 yr periods with so many compounds.

You likely have measurable blood levels of many common chemicals. Its a fact.
Flameretardants, plasticizers, solvents, pesticides, fuel additives, etc. They are in everything you buy, and use.
Drinking out of something isnt necessarily a more dangerous exposure route than any other.

Edited by livingontheroad on 11/24/2013 22:12:14 MST.

Ed Biermann
(longstride) - F
Re: Ultralight Hard Bottle? on 11/24/2013 22:17:04 MST Print View

You're welcome.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Ed To The Rescue on 11/24/2013 22:21:36 MST Print View

I knew someone out there had an answer :)

Sometimes a thread just needs to stew for 48 hours so the right people chime in.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Oh, I see how it is! on 11/24/2013 22:22:14 MST Print View

Define "UL specific properties"? The posted German bottles look heavy.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Ultralight Hard Bottle? on 11/24/2013 22:26:04 MST Print View

Your mistaking my attempt to help you find an answer to your little quandary for grouchiness. You asked for suggestions, I offered up two solutions within your parameters in a straightforward manner. We can "kick the can" here for days. You seem to be mildly amused at the suggestions others have made in your thread, but if you read through it very deliberately you will find several viable lightweight solutions for simply carrying liquid.

So, let's lay out your criteria:

1. Non BPA
2. Non Nalgene
3. Not a repurposed bottle like a Gatorade bottle (*yet now a reused Fiji water bottle is what you were looking for?)
4. Narrow mouth w/ simple screw top
5. "UL"
6. Minimalistic in design
7. "Hard sided" but not too hard, definitely not "soft sided" like a Platy or Hydraflask
8. Durable, but not built like a tank

Miss any?


You never included what volume size you were looking for. 16oz? 20? 24? liter?

Edited by Eugeneius on 11/24/2013 22:27:32 MST.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Light Enough on 11/24/2013 22:27:53 MST Print View

The "ultralight" bottle is a platypus 2L.

Whenever you start adding the "D" word into the mix, things get heavier, but the hard-sided nalgenes were overkill.

This is lighter than a nalgene hard-sided bottle with similar durability and is exactly what I'm looking for. Any lighter, and they might as well be a Platypus.

The "magic" bottle that is hard-sided, durable, but lighter than a few ounces doesn't exist (that I have found) but these offer a nice compromise. The cap isn't perfect... but they fill so many of my other requirements (if you wanna call them that) that I'm willing to look past it.


Honestly, I'm tired of searching. If you have a better idea, post it.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Not Interested. on 11/24/2013 22:32:03 MST Print View

@ Eugene, and others,

If you're just looking to argue, i'm not doing it. If you want to know what I'm looking for, it's been clearly indicated in the thread.

Bily Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: Light Enough on 11/24/2013 22:33:26 MST Print View

But what exactly does this bottle weigh Max?

I didn't see it on the web site you gave us.

Perhaps I missed it.

thanks,

bill