Best stand-alone bivy?
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Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Best stand-alone bivy? on 11/16/2013 18:23:52 MST Print View

Removed.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 11/16/2013 19:43:07 MST.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: Borah on 11/16/2013 19:07:30 MST Print View

"Sorry "That make 0 sense I don't care what reasoning." Better not buy one then. Problem solved. Hmm... better call Borah and tell them to remove it as an option since it doesn't meet your approval."

Ian, why reduce the thread to an unproductive middle school playground double dare attitutude? I too questioned the rational of using the fabric and you said you haven't used the product. If you can contribute something positive , please do, but I don't appreciate the negative sarcasm when we are all trying to exchange information and learn.

Can you please tell us the advantage of using a waterproof breathable fabric on the floor of a bivy?

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Edited nicer version on 11/16/2013 19:28:11 MST Print View

Admittedly I overreacted to Michael and what I perceived as a snotty response. My experience with a full goretex bivy in a variety of harsh conditions is that it's durable to a point that I didn't have to use a ground sheet with it. It never had problems with ground water seeping in. Admittedly I often (certainly not always) would sleep with the bivy over a pad so that greatly extended my mileage but when I had to turn it back in after hundreds of nights of use, it was in awesome condition.

I've already disclosed that I haven't used eVent. I'm simply interested to know if it would have the same level of durability of goretex as this would be desirable in an alpine environment.

Michael,

My apologies. I admit my response was crappy and I owe you a beverage.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 11/16/2013 19:56:13 MST.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
event on bottom... not worth it on 11/16/2013 20:30:42 MST Print View

Heat vapor etc rises to the top, an Event bottom I think is completley a waste. Where is it going to vent, the dirt?

Personally im against bivys, its an old school thing people used when the lightest tents they could find were 2-3 pounds.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Edited nicer version on 11/16/2013 20:34:30 MST Print View

Thank you!

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
ian on 11/16/2013 20:35:56 MST Print View

"My apologies. I admit my response was crappy and I owe you a beverage."

Bottoms up! No problem, everyone is entitled to their oppinion, some people just do it nicer than others. I might come off as not nice sometimes but im working on it.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: event on bottom... not worth it on 11/16/2013 20:36:38 MST Print View

"Heat vapor etc rises to the top, an Event bottom I think is completley a waste. Where is it going to vent, the dirt?"

Michael,

If it proves to be more durable to a point that you don't need to use a ground sheet and it extends the life of the gear, then there might be some value. I'd never get that option for venting purposes for the reasons you stated. I don't think silnylon would necessarily be a bad option in conjunction with a ground sheet either.

It'd be interesting to hear the manufacturer's take on why they offer it as an option.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: ian on 11/16/2013 20:37:59 MST Print View

"I might come off as not nice sometimes but im working on it."

Nah I came over guns blazing from the wind shirt thread so that was completely me.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: event on bottom... not worth it on 11/16/2013 20:41:05 MST Print View

"....Personally im against bivys, its an old school thing people used when the lightest tents they could find were 2-3 pounds."

That puts an interesting perspective on the use of bivies vs simpler covers. I never considered the historical perspective. It flows with the wall climber and military use too I think.

As ususal, no free lunch! I do like the no strings, no poles elemental cowboy throw down your bedroll appeal, but that might not work in the land of moss and slugs :)

Bily Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: Re: event on bottom... not worth it on 11/16/2013 20:47:42 MST Print View

The BD Twilight Bivy has a SilNylon Bottom and I never use a ground sheet with it... 3 years, mostly above tree line camped on gravels... no leaks... and MUCH lighter weight than Gortex or Event... I also believe that the Gortex and Event have issues if they get dirty, no?

For the weight and waterproofness the BD Twilight has served me well.

As far as Bivys being 'old school' or outdated... If you think climbing and sleeping on ledges they are still state of the art. And the 10oz BD Twilight competes with the weight of tarps... And.. Bivys require no stake out and you only need a flat spot of about 2 feet wide by 6 feet long... And Bivys are not going to blow over in any amount of wind, the weakness of tarps.... very handy in rough terrain. Many advantages Bivys have, indeed.

Bill D.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: event on bottom... not worth it on 11/16/2013 20:48:17 MST Print View

Dale,

I have a goretex USGI bivy that weighs in at 2.5lbs. It's the same exact one I used in the military and I found it to be bomber. If interested, I can mail it over for you to test run a couple nights to see if the investment into a lighter but more expensive bivy would be worth the investment to you.

From my experience, the benefits and liabilities of a true sans tarp stand alone bivy have been covered well in the BPL forums. Certainly convenient by not having to stack rocks over stakes in rocky/alpine country, smallest foot print I know of, etc. Cons, when it's dumping, you're stuck in a goretex coffin.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: event on bottom... not worth it on 11/16/2013 20:59:16 MST Print View

"The BD Twilight Bivy has a SilNylon Bottom and I never use a ground sheet with it... 3 years, mostly above tree line camped on gravels... no leaks... and MUCH lighter weight than Gortex or Event... I also believe that the Gortex and Event have issues if they get dirty, no?"

Valuable insight on silnylon; thanks for sharing. How well does the nanoshield breathe and how is the condensation? Is this an eVent variant?

Bily Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: Re: Re: Re: event on bottom... not worth it on 11/16/2013 21:08:05 MST Print View

" How well does the nanoshield breathe and how is the condensation? Is this an eVent variant?"

I really can't say how well it breaths. I have not scientific instruments to give you a quantitative answer. I camp mostly at high elevation in the Sierra. There is condensation, but not enough to be a significant problem in the summer in the Sierra. Most of the condensation will come from the moisture in your exhaled breath. If you orient your mouth and nose to exhale to the outside there is little condensation.. I do not believe this material is related to eVent at all. It is a very thin single layer. All of these supposedly breathable fabrics will have condensation in certain conditions, it's just a matter of degree.

Bill D.

Clayton Black
(Jivaro) - MLife
ID Event Wedge Bivy on 11/16/2013 21:12:50 MST Print View

Not the bivy the OP is looking for but I'll throw in my 2 cents on bivys.

My un-UL secret love for 14k and up ridge/summit sleeps is the ID Event Wedge. Thanks to BPL the rest of my gear is light so I don't really feel it. It has pros and cons. First of all it has condensation but that comes with sleeping in paramo weather. Storms just bounce off or go around it though.

The best part of it is the worst part of it. When the stars are bright and right on top of you the odd zipper that opens the top is a thing of wonder. You can zip half way up and block the wind and star gaze all night. But when it rains if you don't have the vestibule on, it's hard to get in and out with out getting a lot of water inside. You can worm your way out of a zip hole but that's not always convenient on a mountainside. Above 14k I don't carry my vestibule because I feel it might not be up to those type of winds but it's wonderful add on down lower. My love of the stargazing capability far outweighs the cons of when it rains.

I'm 6'2 and my wife fits in with me comfortably. I'd like to say that means the weight gets divided but well you know how that works.

And no I wouldn't consider hauling it around for days on end. Not a long trail option.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: military gore-tex bivies on 11/16/2013 21:16:18 MST Print View

I appreciate the thought, but 2.5 pounds is a little too far across the weight vs function line for me.

Of course I drool over the SUL bivies, but I haven't seen one yet that wasn't really a sleeping bag cover and meant for use with a small tarp or poncho.

I'm liking specs of the BD Twilight and Bill's description of the use of a bivy is really what it is about for me: a weatherproof haven that only needs a 2x6 flat spot. And i understand the compromises.

I have a solo tarp tent that is 11oz, a ponchmo that is 7oz, plus a bivy that needs a tarp and weighs 15oz.

The whole appeal is having this small light shelter to take on short trips that you can throw down next to the campfire like an anscestor did with a mastodon hide, roll up in it and go to sleep. You rise at dawn, make your breakfast at your elbow and break camp in 5 minutes. No poles, strings or stakes to fuss over and no worries about it hooking the wind and sailing off at 3 am.

So, a romantic notion of simple camping, but it still needs to work. A wet cold night isn't good! I have plenty of sticks and strings if I want more guaranteed comfort.

Thanks for the input!

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Microbivi on 11/16/2013 21:25:20 MST Print View

I own a ID microbivi

Its not a good choice if it rains alot as the head doesnt zip up

However thats the onlu opening and you can flip over on ur side/back is it really starts coming down

WPB bivies are for sleeping on ledges, and honestly if it gets that wet yr bailing anyways

Condension can be a real issue, in the winter it freezes and you can whack it off, but in warmer temps i can soak back into ur bag

;)

Anthony Weston
(anthonyweston) - MLife

Locale: Southern CA
bivy's on 11/16/2013 21:36:17 MST Print View

I have not found a bivy that is good without a tarp.
I have not found a bivy that is good without a tarp.
I have not found a bivy that is good without a tarp.
tried quite a few.

I'm taking a bivy to keep my bag dry both from groundwater and condensation but I use it in combination with mld solomid.

I don't trust cuben floors, I could be wrong here, I expect they are not as durable and will leak. Don't like silnylon because it seems to be a condensation magnet.

The best for my purposes is the 6oz Montbell dri tec breeze bivy.
The tarp keeps the rain off my head and the bivy has taped seams
and can handle puddles and spray. I even tried it in my bathtub with 2 inches of water for an hour and it was fine. It's lighter than event and breathes well so no condesation problem.

I have an Integral Event Wedge Bivy that I use in winter to handle wind and snow.
It's no good in the rain but a very warm winter shelter.

I also have a tyvek bivy made of kite grade tyvek. I like it because it keeps my bag clean and then I don't need a groundcloth but then I camp in the Sierra's so it's dry most of the time.

I've been eye-ing the 10oz event bivy from Locus Gear but so far the Montbell Dri Tec wins out. I had a zipper installed in mine by the lady at the local dry cleaners.

Edited by anthonyweston on 11/16/2013 21:44:52 MST.

Tony Wong
(Valshar) - MLife

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
eVent bivy bottom/floor on 11/17/2013 02:00:35 MST Print View

I don't see having eVent as a floor of a bivy as making much sense.

Any warm moisture coming off you should rise and vent out through the top eVent fabric or your but netting.

Having it under you is a poor use of an expensive fabric, in my opinion, and it would stand to reason that your body weight on the eVent fabric is just inviting moisture to get pushed through an eVent floor into your bivy

My understanding is that Cuben is waterproof....my MLD eVent Soul Side Zip has a discontinued 2.0 silnylon floor....pretty waterproof, but I have had some wet/damp spots from the weight of my body on some damp, wet ground.

Nothing that would have gotten me wet, but it did push through.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the lack of value of having an eVent floor.

Tony

Mole J
(MoleJ) - F

Locale: UK
Bivi floors etc on 11/17/2013 02:43:50 MST Print View

From what I have been told/read of by other users, an all eVent bivvy is overall better breathability all round. But like other lightweight types with breathable floors, benefits from careful protection underneath = - i.e. ok on grass/soft duff, but otherwise best with an external mat/GS (Which I disllike for the reasons already stated). IME of eVent it wouldn't last too well with the degree of physical pressure and dirt that a bivi floor generally gets. The Event bivis I've used myself have a 70D pu nylon floor.

The all goretex military bivis have a heavier bomber face fabric and seem pretty tough.

I wonder, did John Abela read the OP before making irrelevant posts?!! (I guess not)

Mole J
(MoleJ) - F

Locale: UK
hood on 11/17/2013 03:05:55 MST Print View

OH
and I forgot to add
that I prefer a hood which will offer protection to the top of your head whilst open at face e..g drawstring or zip across chest/chin area.,

The type which zip around the top perimeter are a PITA IME -

e.g. if open the floor can roll under your head if you wriggle leaving your head in the dirt. and if you sit up in it, the back falls down leaving you exposed

If the zipper is closed up somewhat, you can't see up and out - just sideways.

I guess the advantage is simplicity of construction/ reliability against rain ingress