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"Faux-dini": 2.3 oz. Windshirt, <$15 - Initial Review and Sourcing
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Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: nice find on 11/13/2013 19:52:26 MST Print View

I've been censored!

I guess my sarcastic humor system is different than others' and we can't embrace the diversity.
xxxxx

Goodnight BPL.
----------------------
Diversity is good.
Vulgarity is needless.

Roger Caffin
Online Community monitor
Backpacking Light

Edited by rcaffin on 11/13/2013 19:59:46 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
However, beware of the side effects on 11/13/2013 19:58:32 MST Print View

Of course poor working conditions are to be deplored.
Of course child labour is to be deplored.
Of course the West should consider what it is doing.
However, beware of the side effects.

Well-meaning people are working hard to bring to an end the use (not employment!) of children in rug marking in Nepal. Surely a good thing? However, it seems the children (well, the young girls anyhow) are simply being diverted into the bonded sex trade in India.

Complaining that the factory conditions are atrocious is all very well, but what if the alternative is unemployment and starvation? Difficult, very difficult.

Realistically, things do change, but it takes time. Perhaps buying goods from Asia is slowly helping the whole country get a slow rise in the standard of living, as Western money comes into the country?

Difficult.

Cheers

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Question for Roger about editing on 11/13/2013 20:20:50 MST Print View

So you let the poster know when you delete an entire post?

michael adamski
(mikeadamski) - M
Ebay let's you give at purchase. on 11/13/2013 20:30:10 MST Print View

At checkout, Ebay gives you the option to tack on a donation to aid the efforts in the Philippines.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Question for Roger about editing on 11/13/2013 20:42:45 MST Print View

Hi Katharina

> So you let the poster know when you delete an entire post?
Not always.

If the post was an isolated instance I may just delete it and hope that the poster gets the message. That way there is no fuss and bother. Yes, this works quite well.

If only part of the posting was over the limits (say just one sentence) I may delete just that part. I would usually note in the posting that I had done so. This message is a bit more noticeable.

If the poster was creating a bit of a problem I may PM or email that person and ask them to take note of the BPL restrictions re language.

If the poster is over the top I may simply ban them without notice. This applies especially to shoe-spammers :-)

Cheers

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Question for Roger about editing on 11/13/2013 21:00:45 MST Print View

Ok....

Inserting yourself in Craig's post above seems a bit intrusive to me. I mean, you had the chance to explain yourself in the post you deleted entirely, or write your own. To insert your post into a perfectly legitimate, vulgarity free post.....seems like over reaching.

Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Question for Roger about editing on 11/14/2013 00:45:11 MST Print View

Kat, it's just how Caffin does it. As with all forums there are admins and some are good, some are bad, and all have their quirks. Caffin usually is pretty hands off but his style has always been to modify posts for offensive material, especially from generally active and polite forum users.

Granted I didn't see the original post but meh, comes with not administrating your own forum.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Faux-dini": 2.3 oz. Windshirt, <$15 - Initial Review and Sourcing on 11/14/2013 02:21:21 MST Print View

"To insert your post into a perfectly legitimate, vulgarity free post.....seems like over reaching"
Maybe the F word almost fully spelled out is OK with you but it isn't for others.
And no , I did not complain , I am just letting you know what it was about.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Question for Roger about editing on 11/14/2013 02:33:27 MST Print View

Hi Katharina

> Inserting yourself in Craig's post above seems a bit intrusive to me.
Yes, you are quite right, but the intrusion was deliberate. I was saying to the writer that what had been written in that posting was not acceptable.

> To insert your post into a perfectly legitimate, vulgarity free post.....seems
> like over reaching.
It was not 'vulgarity free' when I first read it.

The post I deleted entirely - yes, it was also unacceptable. Should I spend hours writing little essays every time? Maybe, but I don't have that much spare time. A straight deletion is also a fairly clear message to the writer.

As Franco wrote ...

Cheers

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Roger about editing on 11/14/2013 03:26:59 MST Print View

Just to add that such an action is part of the forum-guidelines and is just the way it is done here.

Peter S (masc. ├╝ber linear logical club)
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Roger about editing on 11/14/2013 03:47:29 MST Print View

Roger, thanks for explaining your moderation-actions. This is very appreciated and positive IMO.


You could probably have saved yourself some time and do at the same time as you moderated though ;-)

Edited by prse on 11/14/2013 03:51:32 MST.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Roger about editing on 11/14/2013 06:06:03 MST Print View

My question was not why the "offending post" was deleted. My question was why Roger had to edit Craig's next post . If there is not enough time to let the poster know their post has been deleted entirely, or to write a note about it, then why take the time to edit a perfectly legitimate post and explain your actions there?
So Franco....what was your reply about in this context?
And those telling me that this is what admins do.....I know what they do and I know that Roger has changed over the last few weeks.

How did the survey go and did Roger not jump in to some of our complaints about the proposed new rules, saying that they were just proposals, so don't get all in a huff...?

These are very specific questions, not why do moderators exist etc.

1. Results of the survey; do we have them? Did they matter?
2. A post that merely mentions one having had a different post entirely deleted:
If you don't have enough time to explain the one you deleted completely, or write a reply about it, why enter someone else's that way you did? Anyone reading that does not get the picture of what really happened here.

So can you not leave one be if they write "oops I have been deleted and do not really like it". ? It would save you some time not to edit posts that contain no vulgarity are are not in the least bit offensive.

No disrespect meant, but replies about the F word not being ok have nothing to do with my question, nor do generic "defense of moderator duties".

Edited by Kat_P on 11/14/2013 06:18:54 MST.

scree ride
(scree)
Cause he can on 11/14/2013 07:20:16 MST Print View

This post is not my own. I'm over it.Anybody else?

If I buy a product and part of my money is donated to charity, who gets the tax credit? not me. Why don't they just lower their prices and let me pick my own charities. Their goal is for me to feel good about overspending on their products.
The main reason I have a "room dedicated to just gear" is that I have bought many cheap products over the years then I buy something decent to replace them. Our landfills are filled with cheap products. This may or may not be one of those products.
A good find, depends on how long it lasts.

Edited by scree on 11/14/2013 07:51:56 MST.

Jon Leibowitz
(jleeb) - F - MLife

Locale: 4Corners
So anyways on 11/14/2013 07:31:51 MST Print View

Back to the topic on hand......has anyone managed to order this thing in another color than sky blue? The description below shows some cool colors but I can't figure out how to order it in other colors......

D S
(smoke) - F
Here's how- on 11/14/2013 07:49:31 MST Print View

>Back to the topic on hand......has anyone managed to order this thing in another color than sky blue? The description below shows some cool colors but I can't figure out how to order it in other colors......<

Go to the original linked ad, then go to seller's store. Do a search for "jacket" and the individual ads for each color will come up. Then, order accordingly.

Sizing chart should also appear at bottom.

Hope that helps!

Edited by smoke on 11/14/2013 07:50:39 MST.

scree ride
(scree)
seller's store on 11/14/2013 07:56:15 MST Print View

Just be prepared they don't censor.

Ian Schumann
(freeradical) - M

Locale: Central TX
Re: the bigger picture on 11/14/2013 09:49:25 MST Print View

Roger,
You said this among other things:
Complaining that the factory conditions are atrocious is all very well, but what if the alternative is unemployment and starvation? Difficult, very difficult.

... and I found that whole post of yours to be very balanced, honest, and considerate.

This is something I've talked over numerous times with my wife (who works in fighting domestic human trafficking here in the USA) and with our friends, most of whom are into socially-conscious purchasing, and the like.

I think it's interesting to consider the micro- or mini-economic impacts of our exporting our own cultural values onto other developing economies. What I mean by that is just what you've pointed out here -- that while the proliferation of sweat-shop labor or harsh working conditions might seem unconscionable to progressive-minded western consumers, sometimes the very workers who are in those east-asian factories would strongly object to the closing of those jobs. We forget quickly (as was also pointed out) that the robber-baron age, or gilded age, of US history was very much the same way, and was critical to our own industrial revolution and creation of an urban middle class. At least, this is the story that's been taught to me.

So what is the solution? As Roger said there may not be a clear-cut choice that is airtight from all sides. If we purchase counterfeit, knockoff, or sweat-shop produced goods, we may subject distant laborers to some temporary suffering. If we refuse to buy those same goods, then we inadvertently lay off those workers, most of whom were at work voluntarily in those sweat shops, and force them to compete for ever-fewer jobs in order to feed their families. The labor will flow inexorably toward whatever opening the market creates, and for the western consumer of conscience, there may simply not be a quick fix.

This is probably an amateurish consideration of the overall issue, as we're getting into a pandora's box regarding macro-economic development and a lot of stuff that I know pitifully little about.

But my point is ... in my view it would seem an oversimplification for us to assume that simply by purchasing from fair trade or ethically supply-chained companies, that we have decisively solved one of the world's problems. Upon closer inspection from the other end of the supply chain, the issue looks a bit more nuanced than that.

This is not to put anyone down here or to take a particular side. I'm just sharing the fruit of some own IRL conversations I've had with activist friends here.

As a final gift, if anyone really wants to explore the rabbit hole and see how far you have to go to avoid being a hypocrite, take a look here:
http://slaveryfootprint.org/
Through large amounts of gathered data and statistics, this little app will make an educated guess at how many slaves you employ, based on your consumption and existing possessions. Pretty eye-opening.

Update / Edit
Just took the survey again myself. Looks like I employ an estimate of 42 slaves.

Maybe instead of talking about lowest base weight, we could compare how many (or few) slaves each of us employ inadvertently. I'm joking of course. Well, at least half-joking.

Edited by freeradical on 11/14/2013 09:58:54 MST.

Link .
(annapurna) - MLife
Re: So anyways on 11/14/2013 09:59:50 MST Print View

.

Edited by annapurna on 11/14/2013 10:00:22 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: the bigger picture on 11/14/2013 12:52:55 MST Print View

This entire thread is a disaster from about the 3rd post or so forward.

Maybe everyone should turn off the computer and go hiking or something outdoors.

Hmm... good idea. See you in a couple weeks.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Faux-dini": 2.3 oz. Windshirt, <$15 - Initial Review and Sourcing on 11/14/2013 13:45:59 MST Print View

Well I am dumbfounded.
The thread is about a counterfit Jack Wolfskin wind jacket.
Jack Wolfskin employs about 700 workers but somehow everybody here is discussing Patagonia, another company that happens to have nothing to do with this...
Then a member chooses to spell out the F word and I am questioned about what that has to do with anything.