Sharing (Or Not) Locations and Logistics on the Web.
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Bily Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: Re: Sharing (Or Not) Locations and Logistics on the Web. on 12/03/2013 21:02:48 MST Print View

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1.... Nick!

Billy

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
sharing. on 12/03/2013 21:16:16 MST Print View

Agreed, Craig.

Paul Magnanti
(PaulMags) - MLife

Locale: People's Republic of Boulder
A conundrum on 12/04/2013 07:40:14 MST Print View

My own personal rule-of-thumb is that if the place is on-trail and popular trails to begin with, I will share logistics.

But, as I found out the hard way, even if something is on-trail, people don't necessarily string together what seems obvious on a map. Once you lay out a route with the trails to take, you immediately make it accessible for the vast majority. A light bulb goes off for people and everything is easy: Take this map, take this trail, park here. Most people don't like to string together their own route.

I honestly love sharing. People ask me "What's a good hike in Colorado?" and I am happy to share.

It is generally how I operate: Share the food on my table generously. Do the little bit extra to help out. Share knowledge of what I love.

But, as I am finding out, when I innocently share what I love, perhaps I am ruining a small part of it? :)

I think there is a balance. After all, someone shared with my the route I took on my first backpacking trip. It was something he found out about through the local chapter of the Appalachian Mtn Club. That trip started a love for the outdoors that has never gone away.

On the other hand, perhaps it is best to give a sketch only. Not to give all the fine details?

I think it is great to share. I also think it is good to keep the wild places wild.

What is the balance? I sure as hell don't know. :)

Diane Pinkers
(dipink) - M

Locale: Western Washington
Craig, this is for you! on 12/08/2013 11:30:26 MST Print View

On the topic of finding a place but not telling anyone about it, I highly recommend folks track down this year's Banff Film Festival Grand Prize winner. 2 Norwegian surfers find a small beach north of the Artic Circle, and hike in to spend the *winter* surfing. They supplied themselves with outdated food, used only found items on the beach to construct a shelter and wood stove, bringing only a few tools and nails to string it together. They hiked out to their van to purchase/acquire food--they talked about using post-dated food because it was free. Their plan was to stay there through the winter and surf as much as they could. During their stay, they removed over 3 pounds of trash from the beach that had washed up, mostly plastics and stuff.

One of the guys specifically said they were not going to reveal where it was, because they wanted people to find their own paradise. Crazy couple of youngsters, but they did it. Personally, I think they had to be crazy to begin with--surfing in Norway? I think folks are nuts for surfing here in the Pacific Northwest, and that's warmer than Norway. But, it was really cool to see them work their dream.

edit: I found a place where folks can rent it:

video

Edited by dipink on 12/08/2013 11:36:24 MST.

Roger Dodger
(RogerDodger) - F

Locale: Wess Siide
Re: Sharing (Or Not) Locations and Logistics on the Web. on 12/09/2013 15:55:12 MST Print View

Craig,

Had a similar dilema in 2012, we brainstormed on a thread:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=59025&disable_pagination=1

I remember an old mafia joke:
Three can keep a secret, when two are dead.


You wouldn't mind sharing a special place with someone you trusted to respect the location equally. it's the 3rd and 4th degree of separation that you have no control over, and once its documented on a trail website, it's there forever, unlike a paper book that gets out of circulation.

First the issues we struggle with:
crowds & noise
trash and graffiti
artifact theft
Land of many uses (Jeep clubs, gun clubs, helicopter tours, miniature model airplane flyers, horse riders, mule rides...) those groups take away from MY enjoyment.

I admit that my feelings are partially selfish. and I'm OK with that.

The irony is that when that special place becomes at risk for bulldozers, starbucks development, Edison powerlines and wind farms, then we find it OK to tell everyone about it, to draw attention to preserving a place that we wanted to hoard for our own.

It's basic, we don't like to share with strangers. We don't trust others to respect the place and care for it like we do, and we prefer solitude at a max group size or 2 or 3.


The ethics are, everyone is a co-owner of the natural resource, it belongs to all of us.

We exclude others by obfuscating navigation directions, some people break down park signs to intentionally mislead.

Unfortunately, not all teenagers are mature. they want to get drunk, high, leave broken glass, spray paint and the occasional mattress to do the deed.

so What's the answer?

Two wrongs to make a right.

as long as some people disrespect and abuse an existing location, newly discovered locations are kept a secret within a trusted circle, to delay the inevitable damage.

Look at IHC in Mt B, it's overrun with 100s of two distinct groups. One is very respectful, the other leave trash, graffiti and dog poo. Eitherway, the experience for me is seeing mass humanity, and I have to start my trip at 3 or 4am in the morning to get a couple of hours of nature "me time"


and when an area does not get significant use, the lumber timber logging industry, and the energy generation utilities will bribe a few officials, find a way to fence it up, after all no one way using it, except Nick, and Craig. :)

Edited by RogerDodger on 12/09/2013 16:38:13 MST.

scree ride
(scree)
Re: Re: Sharing (Or Not) Locations and Logistics on the Web. on 12/22/2013 04:33:15 MST Print View

I'll tell you how to get there but I won't say where his other cave is.