Wind Screen
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Marc Eldridge
(meld) - MLife

Locale: The here and now.
Wind Screen on 11/06/2013 19:34:46 MST Print View

For you stove guys, what do you think of this wind screen setup?

liuf

lly

Matthew Black
(mtblack)
Re: Wind Screen on 11/06/2013 20:01:46 MST Print View

Is that a Vargo Ti stove?

Edited by mtblack on 11/06/2013 20:02:29 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Wind Screen on 11/06/2013 20:23:28 MST Print View

Is there enough airflow out the top?

How much does it weigh?

You can't roll it up for easier storage.

Will the canister overheat?

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
Re: Wind Screen on 11/06/2013 20:57:36 MST Print View

Don't use that with that stove! That Coleman has plastic parts that are going to melt with that rig - including the bit that connects the control handle to the valve. If that melts YOU CANNOT TURN IT OFF!

Edited by paul on 11/06/2013 21:42:24 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Wind Screen on 11/06/2013 21:06:58 MST Print View

hmmm... take pictures?

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Galv.? on 11/06/2013 22:30:17 MST Print View

Is your windscreen galvanized? If so, warning. Research the health effects of over-exposure to galvanization. The concern is zinc poisoning and "metal fume fever" which gives flu-like symptoms. Welders avoid welding on galvanized material, and you should likewise avoid getting it hot (especially near food).

Edited by Bolster on 11/07/2013 08:51:36 MST.

Tad Englund
(bestbuilder) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Galv.? on 11/06/2013 22:47:45 MST Print View

Delmar, I was thinking the very same thing

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Re: Galv.? on 11/07/2013 04:19:32 MST Print View

Yeah, avoid galvanized.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Wind Screen on 11/07/2013 12:20:18 MST Print View

Is that a Vargo Ti stove?
Looks like a Coleman F-1 Ultralight.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Wind Screen on 11/07/2013 12:26:00 MST Print View

For you stove guys, what do you think of this wind screen setup?
Marc,

Looks like there are some good things about it, but it looks like it might be resting on the canister, yes? If so, you could get some serious heat conduction to the canister. Whether or not it's resting on the canister, you need to feel the canister by hand when the stove is in normal operation. If the canister feels hot, turn it off. An overheated canister could be a very bad thing.

As others have mentioned, I'd be worried about plastic parts melting and about the galvanization. Pretty simple innovation you've got there with the clothes pin. I like it. :)

Lastly, how heavy it it? It looks maybe a bit heavy? "Heavy" of course varies by the person. If you're saving a lot of gas and don't have the hassle of wasting an entire canister of gas to boil just two cups of water, then of course even a relatively heavy windscreen can be a wonderful thing.

Just a few thoughts. Keep experimenting!

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
More on Zinc Exposure. on 11/07/2013 12:45:15 MST Print View

+1 on avoiding galvanized metal in situations where it is heated. Especially since there are so many options of mild steel, SS and Ti to choose from. This could include heating a galvanized nail to melt a hole in nylon webbing. Just find a non-galvanized hunk of metal instead.

If you're at home (or in a field of diary cows), and you opt to heat or weld something galvanized, FIRST sand/file off the zinc layer before heating it, and SECOND drink a lot of milk. Welders have long observed that they have fewer issues as the calcium helps displace the zinc.

But better to heat zinc at all.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: More on Zinc Exposure. on 11/07/2013 12:53:47 MST Print View

"But better to heat zinc at all."

Or NOT.

--B.G.--

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Wind Screen on 11/07/2013 13:46:09 MST Print View

> For you stove guys, what do you think of this wind screen setup?
Errr... not good. Way overboard imho.

The gap around the exit as shown is too small. The limited air flow will give lots of CO.

The inside photo shows an extreme lack of air inlet holes as well. More CO.

The stove is going to get very hot inside there. Much too hot in my opinion: dangerous for any plastic and rubber in the stove.

Zinc fumes in the cooking, as well as up the nose. Seriously not good.

Carting a bucket around - too big, too heavy, and quite unnecessary too.

You simply do not need a windshield like that anyhow. It is gross overkill.

Sorry, but...
Cheers

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Wind Screen on 11/07/2013 14:03:15 MST Print View

"It is gross overkill."

Just exactly what do you mean by that?

If you are going to use terminology like that, then reserve it for the really serious stuff.

--B.G.--

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
Re: Wind Screen on 11/07/2013 17:33:14 MST Print View

Just to clarify my post about the melting parts, I had the same stove (Coleman F1 Ultralight) and my son borrowed it, and using it with a foil windscreen halfway around the stove, he melted that plastic bit on the handle. Fortunately one of his buddies had a leatherman with pliers and they were bale to turn it off by grabbing the valve spindle with the pliers. As my son put it, "our next option was to fling the thing into the lake".

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Wind Screen on 11/07/2013 17:54:30 MST Print View

I have a Coleman F1 Ultralight

Either because of user error or design defect, it started leaking between stove and canister, flamed up, melted those plastic parts a little, but it still works

Then, several times, I carefully screwed it onto canister and left it overnight, it cooled off, started leaking fuel, empty in the morning. I got a new stove.

Patrick M.
(patrat) - M
nice concept on 11/10/2013 19:21:35 MST Print View

I like the concept, the execution needs work as others have noted. The attachment to the valve is clever, although not viable long term. Not sure if the valve plastic would melt of the sticks burn first, I think the plastic melt.

As said, galvanize and flame dont mix. This advice I even got from a blacksmith, who was very casual towards safety. "Eye protection? Squint!"

You will get the best effectiveness with aluminum as a material. It is very light, and reflects the most heat back towards your pot, of the common materials. Better than steel, better than titanium.

I have been working on a similar concept for my coleman white gas stove, but using a disposable aluminum pie pan.

Do make sure to keep the aluminum out of the flames though.

If you are going to continue with that stove, the heat shield/wind screen will need to locate between the bottom of the burner but above the valve.

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Re: nice concept on 11/10/2013 20:24:55 MST Print View

>You will get the best effectiveness with aluminum as a material. It is very light, and reflects the most heat back towards your pot, of the common materials. Better than steel, better than titanium.

Really! This is news to me. I thought heat reflectivity was more a function of the finish. For example, that a shiny surface would work better in theory than, for example, flat-black stippled surface, etc. I was unaware that the metal of the shield had anything to do with its effectiveness as a reflector. I'm aware that aluminum conducts heat better than steel or titanium, but it's surprising to me to learn it's a better reflector!

I recollect someone saying that titanium has been used as a heat shield on aircraft or spacecraft, and that would make me think it would be good at reflecting (and dissipating) heat away from its surface.

Now, if you consider a shield to be a heat SINK, then I can see aluminum (or copper) being superior. In theory. The aluminum we use for a wind screen is pretty darned thin and would not act as much of a heat sink.

Interesting. Not arguing, just trying to understand. The above quote puts in doubt my understanding of heat reflection.

Edited by Bolster on 11/10/2013 20:31:05 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: nice concept on 11/10/2013 21:14:16 MST Print View

yeah, finish is what matters, any polished metal is pretty reflective

table of emissivity:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/emissivity-coefficients-d_447.html

emissivity = 0 means it absorbs no heat (so it reflects all),
emissivity = 1 means it absorbs all heat (so it reflects none)

Titanium is a little bit worse than aluminum but not that much

but reflectivity of windscreen probably isn't that important, it's supposed to block wind so it doesn't blow the flame around and make burning inefficient

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Emissivity on 11/10/2013 21:22:03 MST Print View

Well how did I get to be this old, and remain so ignorant, to never see an emissivity table before? This is fascinating. So an ideal heat-reflective windscreen would be made of Aluminum Foil (.04) or Electroplated Nickel (.03) or Polished Silver (.02), and a really bad reflective windscreen would be made of Concrete (.94) or Pyrex (.95) or Ice. (Your comment about the real purpose of a windscreen (to shield the wind) notwithstanding.)

This table also has "old galvanized steel," and it's pretty bad at .88

Edited by Bolster on 11/10/2013 21:26:47 MST.