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Paul Andronico
(Jakesandwich) - M

Locale: S.F. Bay Area
Any Enigma Quilt Reports??? on 11/06/2013 13:09:30 MST Print View

Just curious if anyone has some initial impressions of the new EE Enigma quilt? It's been out for a month now and I haven't seen any first hand reports on BPL other than a couple of brief comments on a pre-production model.

Edited by Jakesandwich on 11/06/2013 13:10:11 MST.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Any Enigma Quilt Reports??? on 11/06/2013 14:35:47 MST Print View

Everyone is waiting on WIDE;)

There are a few out there now but since we build most quilts to order that's a 2-3 week wait time.

-Tim

Paul Andronico
(Jakesandwich) - M

Locale: S.F. Bay Area
Thanks on 11/06/2013 14:44:42 MST Print View

Thanks, Tim. I was hoping somebody picked up a regular size quilt and could give some initial feedback. I was tempted to pick up a regular size Enigma myself, but am also holding out for a wide :)

Art Tyszka
(arttyszka) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Wide on 11/06/2013 15:53:26 MST Print View

I've been checking the EE site twice a week waiting to see the WIDE option on the Enigma page.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Wide on 11/06/2013 16:17:51 MST Print View

Ill post when they are ready. The cutting shop has them and said by early next week but well see.

I won't have the SLIM yet but a slightly updated set of REG and WIDE in all 3 lengths.

I'm considering adding a 64" XWIDE what do you guys think? I also considered optional full zippers on WIDE and XWIDE but that's getting pretty Zpacks. I have done the full zippers as custom but it seem like in sub zero temps a 64" sleeping bag would be nice to me. I just don't want to step on toes too much

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 11/06/2013 16:19:14 MST.

Art Tyszka
(arttyszka) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Wide on 11/06/2013 17:09:53 MST Print View

Tim, I have no problem wearing a MB UL parka with the 58" wide in the Rev, and I'm 5' 10", 190 lbs, so not a small guy, but I guess I could see where someone larger might like the 64". As for me, it's about shaving ounces, so while I'd like the extra width, I wouldn't want the weight penalty over my 10D/10D Rev.

As for the zipper - Who cares about stepping on toes, the free market and competition is what drives innovation. Do some more customer research and if you think there's a market for it . . . Personally, I think a zipper defeats the function of a quilt, but then again I don't Winter camp much.

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F - M

Locale: Washington, DC Area
XWIDE on 11/06/2013 17:17:45 MST Print View

As a big and tall guy myself I vote for an XWIDE option

Chris Murdock
(emandchris) - F

Locale: North East Georgia
XWIDE...Just Do It! on 11/06/2013 17:26:48 MST Print View

Another vote for an XWIDE option!

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Wide on 11/06/2013 17:29:48 MST Print View

Art,

I personally would only use a zippered quilt (can't say those evil words) when sleeping on the ground bellow zero F. Here in MN I actually might get some use from something like that.

Otherwise it would just be for customers who are on the fence. They can buy the sleeping bag but try it as a quilt. Then they'll buy quilts after that:). It would still have buckles and straps for sure.

It would also be a good way to expand my market. As much as I like you guys our business has grown past what this community alone can support. We need more exposure and a sleeping bag may help us reach a little wider while still keeping the weight way down and helping the more mainstream crowd get some exposure to true ultralight products. Sleeping bags/quilts are an area even a heavy hiker can convert without sacrificing the comfort he lugs that big pack around to have. Getting him to swap his 3# bag for a 1-1.5# quilt or bag saves him weight without forcing him to give up bombproof packs dry tents and warm food (his fears). You can ease them into it. None of my friends, staff or partners are UL but they all use quilts because they're more comfortable. This is probably my next target market.

-Tim

Paul Andronico
(Jakesandwich) - M

Locale: S.F. Bay Area
Zipper & X-Wide Options on 11/06/2013 17:32:34 MST Print View

No zipper and no X-wide for me, but offering more options that are workable from a production standpoint seems like good business. And I agree with the above poster that nobody has a "copyright" on zippers.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Zipper & X-Wide Options on 11/06/2013 21:55:59 MST Print View

A "full length" zipper is nothing like a Z-Pack.

If you sewed it up half way and zipped the top, it would be, but a full length would be one sweet option.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear) - M
Re: Re: Zipper & X-Wide Options on 11/06/2013 22:17:30 MST Print View

Wouldn't a full zip quilt just essentially be a sleeping bag?

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Zipper & X-Wide Options on 11/06/2013 23:54:43 MST Print View

Sadly yes. ;(

Some people still like them I hear, but its a bummer

-Tim

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Zipper & X-Wide Options on 11/07/2013 00:06:31 MST Print View

"As a big and tall guy myself I vote for an XWIDE option"

+100

It's a tough world for us Godzilla sized hikers who have to share our passion with these crack skinny shrimps. I can stand to drop a (ahem) few lbs but diet will never change the fact that I'm a side sleeper who has >sixty something inch shoulder girth. Love my ULSS#3 but I'd prefer to give my money to a U.S. made product and company. Alas I can't find a quilt that will work for me so I'm stuck with fart sacks as my only option.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 11/07/2013 00:07:26 MST.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Zipper & X-Wide Options on 11/07/2013 00:14:18 MST Print View

I'm set on the XWIDE at this point. Took no time at all to convince me they'd more than cover the template cost the first day.

Now just need to go back to drawing dxf in sketchup (what a joke huh)

-Tim

whalen e
(whalen) - M

Locale: PNW
XWIDE! on 11/07/2013 00:22:34 MST Print View

XWIDE indeed! Glad to hear you are veering towards that option.

scree ride
(scree) - M
Xwide on 11/07/2013 06:03:23 MST Print View

While your reputation already had me sold, top that with an extra wide and some good karma... It will take me a couple of months but if you build the extra wide, I'll have me one.
Good karma watching out for your competitors. I prefer buying from conscientious independents. It helps my karma. Actually though, putting a zipper on a quilt isn't exclusive and was probably the precursor to sleeping bags.
If you want to hit the heavy weight crowd, build a heavy weight quilt. A lot of folks dislike zippers. I like sticking my feet out. It helps to regulate heat. Zippers are rough.
that said, some do like zippers and as an option it makes sense. Make some zippered shells. quasi sleeping bags.
When I bought my mummy, I searched all over for a lightweight bag I could open up. There weren't any. No quilts. For increasing your market, it's all about awareness. Once folks know they have the option of a quilt, they will come. If you increase your market, ZPacks market should increase as well. It isn't about stepping on toes, it's about expanding the market. Going mainstream.
Just don't get too big, I'd have to go somewhere else.

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
2-person model ? on 11/07/2013 07:04:42 MST Print View

I know that the discussion is now on an XWide-model, but I want to launch even another idea: what about a 2-person model ?

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Xwide on 11/07/2013 07:39:29 MST Print View

I agree that its less about adding a zipper as it is about market awareness. I just do t know how to create more awareness at this point.

As to double quilts, I'm all over it. I won't be doing a double like Zpacks or Nunatak but I have a modular convertible design in the works. Well see how long it takes to develop.

-Tim

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Re: Xwide on 11/07/2013 07:44:48 MST Print View

That sounds even better if that would mean that you can adapt it for both 1-person or 2-person needs when required.?

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Xwide on 11/07/2013 07:55:22 MST Print View

We'll see:)

-Tim

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Between length worth stocking? on 11/07/2013 11:25:57 MST Print View

Tim, with only an oz. difference in the regular and long sizes for the Enigma's, are you going to offer a in-between size? Is it even worth carrying? Also, I sleep on my side mostly, semi-fetal position, I guess the 5'11", regular width otta work for me at my 6' height, 160 lbs.. Hmm? Still sitting on the fence between yours and brand "X". :) Shipping is extra I believe for your quilts. Thank you for filling us all in on news about your quilts.

Duane
Width of instock Enigmas?

Edited by hikerduane on 11/07/2013 11:29:40 MST.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Between length worth stocking? on 11/07/2013 11:33:08 MST Print View

Duane,

All Ready to ship Enigmas are Reg or Long

I won't do 3" height increments. That's too many templates to deal with

If you're over 5'11" get the long in the Enigma. The revelation series footbox can fit above my rating as its flexible but the enigma 5'11" fits only to 5'11".

-Tim

Roger Coffey
(tachus1) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Enigma in the mail!! on 11/08/2013 03:17:19 MST Print View

My Enigma 20 is scheduled for delivery tomorrow (actually today as I'm up late with 2 sick kidos). I'll be glad to give a little looksy over for anyone interested. Might be able to do a mini review in the house. Won't have any backcountry time until the first weekend of December when it's hitting the trail in Colorado for some snow shoeing. I'm hoping to push it's limits.
My other quilts include a Nunatak Arc Expedition and a Golite 1+ season.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Any Enigma reports? on 11/08/2013 06:47:59 MST Print View

I forgot to ask, does the listed weight include all the straps, stuff sack etc.? I'm focused on the listed weight in the chart. (Almost a 9 oz. savings over my WM Caribou bag), summer use. :(
Duane

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Any Enigma reports? on 11/08/2013 06:53:40 MST Print View

Listed is quilt. Stuff sacks are sil/pu and add <.7oz and straps are .5oz and .7oz depending on which you use. My guess is anybody who wants one of these will grab a Zpacks cuben dry sack for it or be packing it loose in their frameless pack and will only carry the straps they plan to use, if they even use the straps, many don't. The straps can also but cut down to take weight off, they are long for most uses.

-Tim

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Any Enigma reports? on 11/08/2013 09:03:25 MST Print View

Thanks Tim, I'll see it in 8 days? :)
Duane

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Any Enigma reports? on 11/08/2013 09:16:03 MST Print View

Probably not even! Peter is stuffing it today so it will ship tomorrow via priority.

-Tim

J J
(jraiderguy) - M

Locale: Puget Sound
XWide and Zippers on 11/08/2013 11:23:06 MST Print View

I'm a pretty big guy (6'2", 230), and am a ground/side sleeper. My Wide/Long RevX has been great below freezing, but I've only taken it down to mid-20's. XWide would be pretty great for a dedicated winter quilt.

My dad and brother like to backpack with me a couple times of year, but they don't follow the cottage market. I've been trying to convince them to try a down quilt for a year, and they just don't believe it isn't cold. They also get stuck on the fact that I call it a quilt, and not a bag. So I definitely see a market for a fully length zipper. For my family, they'd be more easily convinced if it was "a sleeping bag that can be adapted for comfort in a wider range of temps by putting it quilt mode" than they are by the "quilt instead of bag" proposition.

Keep up the great work!

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Any Enigma reports? on 11/08/2013 11:43:40 MST Print View

Tim, I work out of town so if it gets to my PO Box by Nov. 16 that would do me fine.
Duane

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Any Enigma reports? on 11/08/2013 11:53:51 MST Print View

If Peter ever comes back from
Lunch I expect it stuffed today and shipped in the morning. He's been at lunch awhile though. Hmm

-Tim

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Any Enigma reports? on 11/08/2013 14:14:53 MST Print View

Snowmobiling? :)
Duane

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Any Enigma reports? on 11/08/2013 14:34:05 MST Print View

He's back. Stuffing now. He had saved the 2 enigmas for last so almost done

-Tim

scree ride
(scree) - M
closed toe box ? on 11/09/2013 07:37:46 MST Print View

Is there any way to open up your toe boxes? Gotta keep a toe out to check the weather.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: closed toe box ? on 11/09/2013 08:06:50 MST Print View

Not on the Enigma but on everything else

-Tim

Roger Coffey
(tachus1) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Thanks for the Enigma, Tim on 11/13/2013 19:27:26 MST Print View

It's here. Hanging on my wall. Taking up space beside another 20 degree down bag, that happens to be 20 years old. I guess that's the best way to understand this Enigma quilt. Side by side with a 20 year old Marmot bag, the Enigma is a revelation. What used to be top of the line, is now relegated to kids camping.
This thing is LIGHT! It's soft, with a hand not unlike the 7 denier fabric on one of my down jackets. The stitching is damn near flawless. Obvious quality.
The chambers are unique and I think with a little use, they will become my favorite. As a side sleeper, I've had issues previously with down sliding off my shoulder or hip within a chamber leaving a cold spot. Shouldn't happen here.
My first backcountry use will be high mountains in Colorado the first weekend in December. I'll put it on a Neoair Xtherm.
Nice work Tim. Thanks.

Robert Meurant
(rmeurant) - MLife
Opening the Enigma foot box - or is it a Pandora's box? on 11/13/2013 20:22:09 MST Print View

Tim, I too wonder about a zip on the foot section of an Enigma - my feet seem to be the major temperature control elements of my body when sleeping, and an Enigma that opened fully would be a great solution.

Is there some structural reason why you do not include foot box zips as an option?

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Opening the Enigma foot box - or is it a Pandora's box? on 11/13/2013 22:01:39 MST Print View

With the Enigma it's all about weight. I want it to be the lightest it can and that means no zip in the foot. I hear you though and have some things planned

-Tim

Robert Meurant
(rmeurant) - MLife
Open box on 11/14/2013 00:57:30 MST Print View

I look forward to developments, and thanks for your response.

Paul Magnanti
(PaulMags) - MLife

Locale: People's Republic of Boulder
Enigma Reports on 11/14/2013 06:55:37 MST Print View

Sorry, every time I see the title of this thread, I feel like I should be reading about a historic thriller. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma

Carry on. Nothing to see here. ;)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Lartnec Nagihcim
Re: Enigma Reports on 11/14/2013 07:02:04 MST Print View

I was thinking the same myself Paul.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Enigma received on 11/18/2013 06:56:33 MST Print View

I picked up my regular width, 6'5" 30F quilt at the PO Saturday. Nice and light, very nice quality, 16 oz., quilt alone on my scale. I'm 6', it came up to over my eyebrows. I think with the straps, I could have gone with the slim, with my 160lb. body. Won't get to use it until Spring. :(
Duane

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Re: Any Enigma Quilt Reports??? on 11/18/2013 08:34:00 MST Print View

I received my 20F (reg, long) Enigma recently and used it this past weekend ...but the low was only in the mid- 30's. I was pretty hot and let the sides loose( but I sleep hot ... but I went to bed kind of chilled with wet feet). Though I did not test the 20 limit, I bought the quilt as a total solution to 3-season-ish "mountain sleeping", unless winter camping dictates a complete sleeping bag. Feeling the heat of the quilt, I'm sure it would have handled wrapped up against the coldest part of the morning.

Ed: size

Edited by hknewman on 11/18/2013 08:36:32 MST.

Art Tyszka
(arttyszka) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
My Precious . . . on 11/25/2013 18:07:42 MST Print View

I just unboxed my Enigma 30F Regular/Wide. First impressions are very positive. True to the weight on Tim's site, it comes in right at 15.0 ounces. The new material feels slightly more wind resistant than the 10d on my Rev, I obviously have to get it out to verify this, but the 10d on my Rev feels as soft as an actual silk liner I have. The Enigma is slightly more durable feeling, but still much softer than my RevX.

I'm 5' 10" and the Regular length comes up to my lower lip, providing I don't draw the cinch cord, if I do it sits just below my chin, around my neck. I'm 190 lbs and the Wide seems to give me plenty of room to toss and turn, which I do. Loft looks to be above the 2" on the site, which is fine by me.

I can't wait to get this out and may even try it this Winter if I can get out on a night that won't drop too far past the mid 20's. Looks like an awesome quilt. Now I need to figure out if I sell my old RevX or the Rev . . .

Enigma4
Enigma3
Enigma2
enigma1

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: My Precious . . . on 11/25/2013 19:10:36 MST Print View

I love the new charcoal! It should also be mentioned if I missed it before the new 10d shouldn't have down leaking issues found in the nobul1 fabrics.

-Tim

Art Tyszka
(arttyszka) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: My Precious . . . on 11/25/2013 19:55:36 MST Print View

Tim, this think looks awesome! I can't wait to get it "out there".

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: My Precious . . . on 11/25/2013 22:26:17 MST Print View

I will admit. I'm proud of these!

-Tim

Will Newton
(Newts) - MLife

Locale: Bay Area
The waiting is the hardest part on 11/26/2013 11:43:54 MST Print View

Oh, man, it's like watching your siblings open their presents first! C'mon, USPS!

Art, you've got me thinking I shoulda inverted my Enigma colorway. Ah, well, on the next one. :)

Kenneth Jacobs
(f8less) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: My Precious . . . on 11/26/2013 12:01:12 MST Print View

Art-

Is that the black inside, charcoal grey outside, without any head and foot weather protection?

KJ

Art Tyszka
(arttyszka) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: My Precious . . . on 11/26/2013 12:57:16 MST Print View

"Is that the black inside, charcoal grey outside, without any head and foot weather protection?"

Yep. I did/do like the way the color strips looked, but was going for minimal weight. I figured between the treated down and the new material that I'd be ok even if a little condensation fell on the quilt or my feet brushed up against the wall. I ran out of time yesterday but will do a small water test tonight. I treated by 10d Rev with Nikwax DWR and it seems to bead up very well for short periods at least.

Art Tyszka
(arttyszka) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Water Beads on 11/26/2013 20:43:40 MST Print View

I did a water test on the Enigma tonight, nothing crazy, but put a small amount of water on a spot and let it sit for 5 mins, at that point it was still rolling around the fabric and beading, it didn't appear that anything had soaked in at all. While certainly not the kind of scientific test that some other BPLs can do, it's something. The new fabric seems much more water resistant, combine that with the DownTek and I'm pretty excited.

Pic #1 is the water spot at the beginning of the test.
h2o1

Pic #2 after 5 mins the water could still roll around, this is the same water from #1, just moved around, the Penny hasn't moved.h2o2

#3 is of the same area on the quilt with the water mopped up. Looks and feels like it was never there.h2o3

Kenneth Jacobs
(f8less) - F

Locale: Midwest
Thanks on 11/27/2013 12:24:24 MST Print View

Art-

Thanks for that! I don't think I will need the added, more water resistant sections then for my shelter setup. Yay, to saving another 0.25oz! You will see my order on Monday Tim! :O) So excited to get away from my Marmot Hydrogen.

KJ

Edited by f8less on 11/27/2013 12:26:20 MST.

Brad Hawkins
(Biathlonman) - F
Thought on 01/05/2014 21:33:28 MST Print View

Just a thought but I'd like to see an option where you can minus the straps (stuff sack to for that matter, but I understand that could complicate shipping). Even if the savings wasn't much I've already got two sets of straps I don't use, would be nice if I could save 5 bucks and avoid them if (when?) I buy another.

Jeff Sims
(jeffreytsims) - MLife

Locale: So. Cal
Reg/XXL tall person Quilt perfection on 01/23/2014 19:02:05 MST Print View

So I had picked up a 30 degree reg/long enigma when Tim had his sale at the end of last year. When I received it I really wanted to love it but it was a little too short. I am 6 ft 5 about 175 and the quilt cam up to the tops of my shoulder allowing drafts to escape. I went back and forth on it and finally decided that it was not gong to work and I was relegated back to my 10D Rev 30 and 10.

I sent Tim an email regarding my challenge, to see if there was a way to add a collar to make it work and he replied to simply send it back and as soon as the Extra Long quilts was available he would send me a replacement. Well guess what showed up Monday!!

Out of the box in the big yellow bag, with all the straps and stuff sack it was 20 ounces, when I removed the quilt and weighed everything else it was just over 3 oz. on my hanging scale, so my regular width, extra long quilt comes in at just over a pound and is absolutely amazing. i can not wait to get out and play at the end of the month.

For reference, I am 6 ft 5 on a short day and this quilt covers my forehead!!!

As always Tim provides world class customer service and now I am dreaming of replacing my winter Rev with another Enigma.

Jeff

Joe Annese
(dirtbaghiker) - M
enigma 10 on 01/23/2014 19:24:13 MST Print View

I got to use my new Enigma 10 degree quilt 2 weeks ago in the Catskills. The temps only dipped to 20 degrees, so I did not get to really test the temp rating. I can say that it was so darn comfortable and I slept awesome with it over me. I have decided that the Enigma quilts are what I have been looking for. Perfect for useing with my bivy and/or tarp in the NE. I will be buying a 30 degree and a 50 degree Enigma to have with my 10 degree one..I think that should have me covered..no pun intended!!

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Yeah Tim!!! on 01/24/2014 06:28:22 MST Print View

I also got a chance to use my Enigma 20 in Big Bend last week...temps at altitude got to about 20 so it got a nice test, especially for someone like me who usually wants a bit more leeway than that.

First of all, this thing is SO light! It's cozy, the nylon is a dream next to the skin and I really like the new baffles. That 20 degree night started off really chilly just as I was going to bed and I was getting a little worried...I had midweight tights, a cap4 hoody and a montbell ex light puffy, and GooseFeet booties. I almost put my hiking pants on over the tights as well........

But I did fall asleep, and next thing I knew it was morning and I was sooooo toasty! I'm pretty sure it didn't really warm up that night because my platy hose was frozen solid...and all my water bladders were full of ice. The other three nights were completely fine, and I'm not sure it was much warmer than freezing those nights as well.

My only possible issue is the length. I am 5'7" and got the regular length, for people up to 5'11". But at times it did seem a bit short....not sure if it really was or if I am just used to the longer revelation (and all the other bags I've ever used). I wasn't cold, so it didn't seem to matter...but do be careful about the length if you want to order one. I think I may have just wanted to pull it up higher over my head when it's that cold out and didn't really have that ability.

Joe Annese
(dirtbaghiker) - M
Re: Yeah Tim!!! on 01/24/2014 06:55:40 MST Print View

buy yourself a down hood...problem solved..