Grid Fleeces, any major differences between them?
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Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
Wind Pro. on 11/06/2013 21:46:43 MST Print View

I use OR Wind Pro hats and gloves and they are great for those applications but I could see using them for the torso, for that I have an R2.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Patagonia gender sizing on 11/06/2013 22:20:13 MST Print View

David, thank you for the sizing info.

Stephen Komae
(skomae) - MLife

Locale: northeastern US
Re: Re: WindPro on 11/06/2013 22:57:11 MST Print View

Personally I am not convinced about Wind Pro for sustained aerobic activity like backpacking. It seems ideal for casual and stop-and-go use but too warm even in sub freezing. The R1 with a Houdini over it is all I've ever needed well below freezing but above 0F as long as it is not extremely windy, then the hard shell must come out.After checking it out and trying it on I'd estimate the Piton Hoody to be at least noticeably warmer than that combo and a lot less versatile. It seems to me to be an excellent piece for climbing but I think I'd sweat out for backpacking, even in winter.

My buddy has the REI Rauk jacket which is made, to my knowledge, completely of Wind Pro. On our last winter backpacking trip it got completely wetted out with sweat with just that, a light base layer and a windshirt over it. In retrospect the windshirt might have been overkill.

As for the Cap4 Hoody, I like the double layer hood, although I've yet to get it truly soaked by rain or sweat. The extra warmth is wonderful and a great way to regulate your temperature quickly.

I still haven't figured out whether the Cap4 Hoody or the R1 Hoody wins. They are both useful and outstanding garments and I am happy to have both in my quiver.

Sean Passanisi
(passanis) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: WindPro on 11/07/2013 01:19:19 MST Print View

Thanks, Stephen. The cap 4 hoody and the R2 vest are the only fleece pieces I own. I've debated whether I should get an R1 hoody, but most of my trips are in warmer weather areas of California where I easily get by with the cap 4. When do you favor the R1 over the cap 4?

I feel like the R1 hoody is not as good for around town use since it lacks the full zip and hand warmer pockets of a jacket model. I suppose an R1 jacket could also do the trick as well as the piton.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: R1 on a budget on 11/07/2013 01:30:40 MST Print View

If you want the R1 type fleece and are on a budget, seek out the military surplus versions. Sizing runs large, so consider going down one size.

Cabelas carries some Power Dry stuff too and it can be a bargain on sale. They have a "polar weight" power dry zip neck top for $42-$45 right now.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: Re: Re: Re: WindPro on 11/07/2013 02:33:21 MST Print View

Sean, the R1 is so technical in its appearance and features I would not wear it off the mountain. Since I got the Cap4 pieces, my R1 no longer feels the luv.

Since you already have an R2 vest, I recommend a lined windshirt like the Marmot Ether or RAB Vapour-Rise Lite Alpine to complement your fleece. My XL Ether is actually a lighter weight, 286g, than my XL R1 hoody, 397g, packs up smaller, wicks great, and repels snow and wind. Much cheaper than the RAB too. I paid less than $50 for mine on sale.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
mec on 11/07/2013 12:57:19 MST Print View

my old mec T3 doesnt have doubled shoulder fabric, only a bit of doubled fabric at the collar ... same with my old cap4 ... i dont believe that the new T2s have double fabric either

i will need to check in store on the new T3s/vegas again

it seems pretty weird that you would use one of the quickest drying, fastest wicking, most breathable fabrics around and negate that by doubling the fabric ... would have been better IMO just to use a thicker powerdry like what they used for the R1 for those areas

as to windpro it does have a place for stop/go activities or as a very breathable outer layer for very cold temps ... think of it as a more breathable but less durable softshell ... its actually more breathable than a fleece + the "average' windshell ... just that the temperature use is much lower

i wrote about this a few days ago ...

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=83678&skip_to_post=713550#713550

;)

Stephen Komae
(skomae) - MLife

Locale: northeastern US
Re: Re: Re: Re: WindPro on 11/08/2013 21:32:09 MST Print View

> When do you favor the R1 over the cap 4?

The R1 is ideal in the shoulder season with a light windshirt or puffy for stop and go sports like climbing and awesome in the winter as a second skin for any sport. For 3-season backpacking the Cap 4 Hoody easily wins, but once the weather becomes constant about 42ºF I'm happy to just wear the R1.

If you don't do much winter sports you could probably forego the R1 Hoody and get the R1 Pullover instead. In a duller color like black it is not too outlandish, however both of my R1 Hoody pieces are fluorescent colors!

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Double on 11/09/2013 14:40:45 MST Print View

None of the T series has doubled fabric on the shoulders or hood except for the collar trim on the zip neck non hooded versions

Checked in the store today

Also its been awhile since i looked at the MEC RD

It passes the breath test easily, much more so than my trail wind or dead bird celeris

http://www.mec.ca/product/5019-388/mec-rd-windshell-jacket-mens/

And i dont even sound like darth vade in the process

;)

Dan V
(Supro)

Locale: Adirondacks
R1 & Terramar Geo Fleece on 11/09/2013 18:37:20 MST Print View

I'll add my experience.

I've had the R1 Hoody (Size L) for a few months and I wear it all the time. Mine is black, and I think it looks fine for around town. I wear it pretty much everywhere but work. As for on the trail, I haven't had enough experience weather-wise to give a full report, but it's a warm piece that breathes well and does a good job wicking moisture. I've found that it's too hot for high output hiking in the 30-50 range, but is awesome for light hiking in that range. I'm expecting that it will work great over a base layer for winter hiking. The design is perfect, from the thumb loops and hood, to the long zipper for venting, and the lighter weight fabric at the cuffs and hem for easy layering.

I've had two of the Terramer Geo Fleece Hoodies since last winter and they have their positives and negtives.

First, the positives:

1) Very warm for their weight
2) Form-fitting - great over a base layer
3) Kangaroo pouch - great hand warmer and stash pocket
4) Wicks moisture / fast drying
5) CHEAP! I bought two...

The Negatives:

1) No thumb loops
2) Loose fitting hood with poor adjustment
3) "Catchy" fabric that pills somewhat easily (but is also very durable)


I bought a Terramar hoody from STP for $20 last winter and used it quite a bit. I liked it enough to buy another. It's no R1 as far as features, but it gets the job done. I think that the R1 might wick moisture a bit better, but I think that the Terramar hoody would be a great substitute if it had thumb loops and a better hood. However, it doesn't, so since I bought the R1 I've relegated the Terramar hoody to around the house use and campfire/yardwork use, which it is AWESOME for. I bought two (Medium & Large), and the medium is great for warmer temps over a base layer and the large is great for colder temps over a base and mid-layer. The large Terramar hoody over the R1 is an extremely warm and rugged combo.

FYI - I'm 5'9" and about 170 lbs.

Ryan Bressler
(ryanbressler) - F
Re: Grid Fleeces, any major differences between them? on 11/09/2013 19:33:59 MST Print View

I just did a 4000+ foot climb in around 3 hours wearing the cap4 hoody and some soft shell pants (no other bace layer). Top 1200 was on skis breaking trail in powder, the rest in running shoes on dirt. At the top I added a Houdini and a nano puff and wore the nano puff skiing down until i sweated it out. Wore the cap4 and houdini for the rest of the walk down.

At the end I was dry and sweat free. In fact, I don't think i've rarely finished a ski tour in such comfort. I had extra clothes in the car but didn't bother changing for the drive home.

I've been an r1 user for 4 or 5 years (I actually wore one out) and I think the cap 4 might be a step forward. I need to test the cap 4 in more conditions but I never really liked the r1 as a baselayer as I would get too hot...I would use it as a mid layer over a thin merino layer. The cap 4 seems perfect.

Diane Pinkers
(dipink) - M

Locale: Western Washington
what about over wool base layer? on 11/10/2013 09:35:10 MST Print View

I'm looking for ideas on a midlayer for our 40°F, damp climate. I have wool long sleeve tops at 200 g/m2, and a Houdini. At those temps, it's just barely enough when moving, but I feel just slightly chilled. I don't know if I just need a thicker base layer, or if I could use a light mid-layer. A full fleece jacket is way too much. I have an old Sierra Designs fleece vest thst is a touch too small that seems about perfect, but I can't find anything as light-it has no pockets, no collar, and is cut just to the waist, no extra fsbric anywhere. Any suggestions in the fleece department?

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: what about over wool base layer? on 11/10/2013 09:43:47 MST Print View

do you feel chilled because its not warm enough .. or because you sweat in it and it retains dampness ?

the grid style fleece work best with a very light base layer or next to the skin to maximize the breathability and wicking

;)

Diane Pinkers
(dipink) - M

Locale: Western Washington
wool vs. fleece on 11/12/2013 11:19:42 MST Print View

Eric, I waited to answer your question, because I had to think about it. On my last outing it was warmer than the conditions stated above, and definitely the chilling was due to sweating and retaining moisture. I removed my windshirt halfway through, and was just in my wool baselayer. And, the wool was 150 g/m2, not 200 like I thought.

I've gone for wool deliberately, but maybe I need to rethink and use a grid fleece baselayer instead?

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: wool vs. fleece on 11/12/2013 12:40:33 MST Print View

I really like my wool-synthetic baselayers because they dry faster than the 100% wools, but not so fast to get the flash freeze effect that pure synthetics are prone too (especially when exposed to wind). Have tried different kinds of blends. Rab MeCo 165, 55% merino to 45% nylon, Dri release wool, and thin, lighter wool-acrylic sweater blends. Listed in order of what I like most to least, but they all work well.

Plan to use the new Pat. Cap 4 hoody as a mid layer where super fast drying in cold weather is only a good thing.

Edited by ArcturusBear on 11/12/2013 12:42:01 MST.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: wool vs. fleece on 11/12/2013 12:41:28 MST Print View

Diane ...

The problem i find with wool is that it

- retains moisture longer than synth generally
- unlike grid fleeces it has a faily flat against the skin surface ... The bumps on the grid fleeces, which sone people may find chaff in the long run, give a dryer next to the skin feeling

IME ... The possible solutions to your problem would be

- more proactive heat management ... Take off the shell before becoming warm ... In cool temps by the time u feel warm youve already sweated into thr layer

- a very light fuzzy/grid synth fleece MAY help dry quicker on the move ... Though it may feel a bit cooler initially as the moisture "flashes off", but in the long run it should dry faster and feel dryer due to the bumps ...

However i do not believe that the material is the root cause of yr problem because 150 gm wool is already preety thin, and a cap4/R1/T2/T3 is warmer than that weight merino

The issue i would suggest is overheating then cooling off .... This can be dealt with by more proactively managing yr body temps

Ie ... Taking off shells before heating up ... An when stopped or moving slow , putting them on or zipping up before getting cold

Hope thar helps

;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 11/12/2013 13:08:30 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: wool vs. fleece on 11/12/2013 13:31:52 MST Print View

I am going to back up Eric here:

> more proactive heat management ... Take off the shell before becoming warm ...
> In cool temps by the time u feel warm you've already sweated into the layer

Our rule of thumb here in Oz is that you strip off as much as possible right at the start, to avoid all sweating. (We leave the sweating to days >35 C.) Sue and I will be wearing a single Taslan/Supplex layer down to nearly freezing right from the start. It's standard teaching in all the Walking Clubs for novices.

I understand the fear some have of getting cold, but a sweaty top is far more dangerous later on. Remember, 'UL' means ultra-light travel, not all bundled up with excess clothing and sweating.

Cheers

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: wool vs. fleece on 11/12/2013 13:37:57 MST Print View

occasionally screwing up and sweating is unavoidable

if you're just wearing Supplex, or Supplex and jacket, and the Supplex gets a little wet from sweat, it'll dry quickly

if you get a synthetic or down jacket wet, it's more difficult to get it dry

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: wool vs. fleece on 11/12/2013 13:45:03 MST Print View

People will screew up

Which is why its quite important to know how to recover from a moist clothing system

Some gear is more tolerant of mess up than others

Generally for i screewed up situations...

Fleece > synth > down ....

Or synth > wool > cotton

But at the end of the day its the persons skill and experience with dealing with these situations that makes the difference

Even the great skurka screewed up by not bringing a fleece, however he had the skills to get through it

But do we?

;)

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: wool vs. fleece on 11/12/2013 13:49:43 MST Print View

"Our rule of thumb here in Oz is that you strip off as much as possible right at the start, to avoid all sweating."

There is an old Sierra Club phrase that is similar. Put on extra clothing before you get cold, and take off extra clothing before you get hot.

--B.G.--