Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible?
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Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
My solution on 11/05/2013 12:53:06 MST Print View

I've sold my original TT Moment(SW) and getting the TT Moment DW.

Initially I'll get the ripstop inner tent for this winter and next spring I'll get the net inner tent.

So then I'll have 4 options for tents:

1. fly W/"solid" inner (& the crossing pole for winter)
2. fly W/net inner
3. fly alone
4. net inner alone

But, yeah, I'm looking at 2 lbs. for the solid inner and fly together, twice your goal.
Cuben fabric is just way too 'spensive unless I quit buying firearms and reloading equipment.

Edited by Danepacker on 11/05/2013 16:17:55 MST.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/05/2013 13:19:37 MST Print View

It really depends of where you want to compromise.
Freestanding,size,weight,small footprint,weather protection.
At least one of the above has to go.
This is a Terra Nova Laser Ultra.
TN Laser Ultra
Pretty close to what you want at 1 lb 4oz packed weight.
The same tent in silnylon is 1 lb 9 oz (Laser Photon)
The point here is that keeping the same design, Cuben saves a few ounces not pounds.
Note that headroom is 34", so this would be the compromise for you here.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/05/2013 13:28:50 MST Print View

"Pretty close to what you want at 1 lb 4oz packed weight."

Plus, add the weight of some decent tent stakes.

--B.G.--

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/05/2013 14:16:07 MST Print View

Nick, you cant always see that the ground is sloping the right direction. I take 30 minutes sometimes deciding which spot is best. I agree with you though about gear being trumped.
Duane

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: camp sites on 11/05/2013 15:53:54 MST Print View

"you cant always see that the ground is sloping the right direction"

Or the evil properties of running water through that campsite :) Yeah, time to throw down the ground cloth and give it a test--- if it's not pouring buckets. Many times, you don't get much choice and overused sites are hollowed, so you get a nice puddle. Lovely, camping in a muddy pond.

Just to rub it in: with the hammock, I can handle up to 45 degrees or so slope on my campsite. The limit is how far up I can reach on the lower tree to set the suspension and still keep my backside off the dirt once I'm in the hammock. And that is if there aren't two trees on the traverse of the hill. Puddles are meaningless, along with anything else short of something that might impale me in a fall.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
An 18oz. Solution on 11/05/2013 17:18:39 MST Print View

I wanted many of the same features as you but with the additional flexibility of having a modular system. The total weight of the inner and outer comes in at 18oz and uses .74 cuben and nanonoseem. The ability to have a small footprint was very important since I often will setup camp in the dark in less than idea spots. This was likely the lightest weight setup that could be made gave my design constraints.

Outer
Mid outer with net inner installed

Inner
Net Inner

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Getting wet on 11/05/2013 17:19:25 MST Print View

I've only had my bag or clothes get wet twice now, just in the last three years. A few years ago on my last night out in the Winds, my Polartec top used as my pillow got wet and two weeks ago my bags foot because I didn't get out and bring my gc inside. I guess my sb needs to be retreated. In the Winds, I thought I selected the best spot, you can never tell. Thank you all.
Duane

Jacob Linton
(gardenhead) - F

Locale: Western NC
MLD Solomid on 11/05/2013 17:31:34 MST Print View

Not exactly what you're asking for, but if it were me I'd probably get an MLD Solomid then figure out the pole. The solomid with perimeter netting feels pretty roomy, and just feels like a good bit of easy/usable space. Pretty small footprint, and a super good all-around shelter. Not totally related, but I find alot of the UL manufacturers gear to feel much less robust than MLD stuff and I just feel more comfortable relying on it in nasty conditions.
I'm using an MLD Cricket now, but I'd be hard pressed to find something other than a Solomid to replace it with.

with netting:
19 oz silnylon, 14 oz cuben

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Getting wet on 11/05/2013 17:31:56 MST Print View

I camped for a couple of weeks in Alaska. The good news was that I was in a forest of trees, so I did not have to worry about horizontal wind or rain. A little bit came straight down. The bad news was that a puddle formed directly underneath my ground sheet, so things got a bit damp. I used a GG SpinnShelter for that, and it was too long. In Alaska, nothing ever dried out.

--B.G.--

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: An 18oz. Solution on 11/05/2013 17:40:37 MST Print View

Malto...what mid is that?

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
This is what BPL is for! on 11/05/2013 17:45:17 MST Print View

My hammock tarp weighs 4oz, and I've slept under that before with the 4oz groundsheet from my tent. Both are silnylon. You can skimp on protection and get a flat or near-flat tarp and 4 guylines and use trees, and easily get under 10oz.

Given what you lose, though, in terms of protection, you gotta look at what nick said; the right shelter for the trip.

That being said, this is EXACTLY the type of thread we should be absolutely dying to participate on in BPL. It's been a while since we've had a good old-fashioned Ounces battle.

Tom Lyons
(towaly) - F

Locale: Smoky Mtns.
GC on 11/05/2013 18:07:17 MST Print View

I'll throw in another plug for the Gatewood Cape.
It offers excellent protection and easy set up, and I have never had any trouble at all getting it right, or ever got wet in the rain. And it is very light, and offers rainwear protection if you want it for that too.
For the price, I personally don't think it can be beat. I think it is one of the most overlooked shelter options, and I can't understand why.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: Re: An 18oz. Solution on 11/05/2013 19:15:24 MST Print View

Jennifer,
I made it. It most closely resembles a solomid but I made it with an offset peak to increase the headspace in the right place.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Why I don't consider poncho shelters on 11/05/2013 19:25:17 MST Print View

Why isn't the gatewood cape more popular?

Ok, I'll voice an opinion, and I'm 100% sure this is near-heresey and I'll get flak for it:


I think ponchos look really ridiculous. If I'm gonna die in the woods, god help me if I'm in a poncho. Don't let my mother see it!

Is this decision at my own detriment? Probably.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Why I don't consider poncho shelters on 11/05/2013 19:36:06 MST Print View

You'd better watch out, the poncho monster is out there and attacks primarily people who hate ponchos.


No, not hearsay, but personally i don't understand why looks would matter. Except for a rare few things, function and practicality almost always trumps aesthetics for me (perhaps my own little rebellion in being married to an art teacher..). Granted, i never much liked the glaring Dupont label on homewrap. Nor can i much abide the color red in most shades (so i guess i even have some aesthetic limits).

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
An 18oz. Solution on 11/05/2013 19:57:20 MST Print View

Thank you for asking Jennifer. I like that modular concept, if it works. I can get away with a very simple shelter or even a bivy late in the season here in the Sierra. I had to start somewhere with some parameters, some variance might be acceptable. However, three weeks ago when I was along the PCT just north of the Feather River and south of Lookout Rock on the Plumas NF here in CA, I got rained on at Bear Creek, it wasn't supposed to do anything. I had my Hexamid with me luckily. Even with a minimal shelter or cowboy camping I would have been screwed, even with the half hour rain. Ounces count. After having the ZPacks Hexamid tent at 12.5 oz. with stakes and tent pole, it is hard to back track to a heavier shelter again. I know, fish or cut bait. The other thing that would ease my having the heavier Skyscape X (see Gear Swap for my ad), is I want to get a EE quilt or ZPacks sb, saving me the weight of my 24oz WM Caribou sb, with a weight savings of 9 oz. over the gained 9 oz. of a shelter if it weighed 20 or 21 oz.
It was asked earlier, my base weight is around 8 lbs. for a week long trip with a 5 oz. Ursack, I was in the 22-24 lb. range last summer with a qt or two of water, so I am getting lower in base weight.
Im excited to get some snow soon so I can try out my new Zimmer, winter volume pack and XTherm pad. The new pack is over 3 lbs. lighter than my old Epperson pack and my pad system will be maybe 1.5 lbs lighter, using two GG torso length Nightlight pads and the XTherm versus my Exped DAM9 and blue ccf pad which was a pain to get uncurled.
Duane

PS, remember Im wanting a small staked footprint, not just light. 8'X12' or so is not small.

Edited by hikerduane on 11/05/2013 19:59:23 MST.

Chad B
(CenAZwalker) - F

Locale: Southwest
Hexamid Reconsidered on 11/05/2013 19:58:10 MST Print View

I realize you had a Hexamid and sold it, but here is a setup I've been trying out recently.

Hexamid Solo Tarp w/beak, z-lines w/linelocs,seam taped = 166 grams
SMD Serenity Nettent = 236 grams
Total = 402 grams (14.18oz)

Weights do not include stuff sacks, single trekking pole or stakes. I personally don't find the footprint of the Hexamid to be all that big, but maybe you're setting up in much tighter places than I am. This is the best photo I have at this time.hex

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Why I don't consider poncho shelters on 11/05/2013 20:42:18 MST Print View

Poncho and capes aren't the trim fashion statement, that's for sure. Going on previous threads where people write about not taking rain gear, I think the Gatewood makes a very good alternative. It's a tarp tent and will keep you and your pack nice and dry if it does pour. The Cape has more loose fabric tucked under than a poncho does, but it is easy to manage and makes for a much better shelter. If you don't need rain gear, you didn't pack one more gram than needed.

Ponchos are light and relatively cheap, but they don't give full coverage as a shelter. I think a poncho tarp needs a bivy to be a complete meal, which steals part of the the bargain for weight and cost.

I usually carry a poncho and a space blanket bivy for my day hiking CYA setup. I've sat out some heavy rain showers under a tree sitting on my Z-seat, wearing a poncho and my pack between my legs. Everything stays nice and dry and I'm still covered to the knees when I'm on the move. The space blanket bivy is for worst-case-stuck-out-overnight scenarios. That combo is 2/3 of what an average rain jacket weighs.

All you need for a poncho or cape is what I call a "monk's belt." Take 8' of light line and double it with a toggle. That goes around your waist and under your pack, with the toggle tucked above your waist belt buckle so it doesn't slide down. The loop simple hooks around the toggle and can be adjusted easily. That tucks in the sides of the poncho and wraps it up under your pack and keeping it away from your heels. You still have good airflow out the sides and the poncho is tamed in wind and brush. You will look like a tossed salad, but I hike solo, so there's no one to see me, not that I care anyway.

That bit of line can be used for emergency repairs, a snare, a spare guyline, a fire bow, or a shoelace. 0.25oz/7.1g total. You can use light shock cord the same way.

Monk's belt for a poncho

Monk's belt for a poncho

Edited by dwambaugh on 11/05/2013 20:43:01 MST.

Jon Leibowitz
(jleeb) - F - MLife

Locale: 4Corners
Re: Why I don't consider poncho shelters on 11/06/2013 07:47:17 MST Print View

Max, consider this.....

I've used the gatewood for about two years and have never considered using it for rainwear. I have it for emergencies but its sole purpose is my shelter. I have just not found anything better - and I've looked. When going out with no bugs it's an 11-ounce shelter that can take anything, has incredible amounts of room, goes up in a few minutes, and has excellent ventilation. I'm 6 foot and have so much extra room in it. I have gotten poured on entire nights and I have never gotten wet in the GWC. The spot for your head also offers incredible ventilation. The fact that it can be used as emergency rain gear is just icing on the cake.

I'm crossing my fingers for a Cuben version.

Edited by jleeb on 11/06/2013 07:51:35 MST.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Fashion First on 11/06/2013 08:05:11 MST Print View

99% of my hiking is with a group, and 50% of that is me leading a group. I hate to sink to the level where fashion matters, but I think it does when you're trying to look professional / pick up girls.

That being said, the emergency rainwear idea is definitely a good one. Having it "just in case" is something I can get behind for overnights that are supposed to be dry.