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Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible?
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USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/04/2013 19:34:06 MST Print View

Suggestions?
Ive been using a TarpTent, floorless Squall, 25 oz. or so for about nine years, sold it last week. Its footprint wasnt bad, had no issues setting it up in the Sierra. Sold my ZPacks Hexamid solo tent, took up quite a bit of real estate, but not too bad, loved the 12.5 oz. complete with stakes and tent pole. It fit nice in my ZPacks Arc Blast pack, if that gives you any idea of what I want in bulk.
I bp mostly in the Sierra, solo mostly, do not use hiking poles, would like to get something good in the wind and ability to shield me from the wind if I get cold in my six foot, 160lbs, 60 year old bones. Anything with netting down low isnt too good. Would be nice to be able to use it early in the season and Fall trips in Oct or so. Pushing it Im sure. Ive been thinking that what I want is sounding like a free standing tent.
I was taking a look at the ZPacks Solo Plus which could be staked to the ground on one side maybe and still give sufficient headroom. I'm just not sure about the size footprint some tarps have like Lightheart, MLD, Bearpaw etc. A tall bathtub bottom would cut the wind, with a overhang for rain protection, but then the weight goes up then. Ive paced some shelters off and they need an area about 8-9' by about 10-12'. Ouch! Weight or space? Oh man!
Duane

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Pocket Tarp on 11/04/2013 19:46:59 MST Print View

The tough part is when we have to decide what "sufficient" headroom is, etc. We don't know much about your comfort preferences.

I would start with the ZPacks Pocket Tarp and a cuben bathtub and go up from there in terms of durability/space. That's about as light as I can think while giving you the bathtub and full features.

Jon Leibowitz
(jleeb) - F - MLife

Locale: 4Corners
Re: Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/04/2013 19:49:56 MST Print View

I'm not sure what the zpacks plus would do for you since it's just a larger version of your old tent you just sold.

It's not freestanding, but take a look at the SMD Gatewood. I've been using it for a couple of years, it's a relatively small footprint (don't know the exact size). You don't need the netting if you don't want and the thing is bomb proof. I've been in heavy wind and all-night rain and stayed dry on countless occasions. There is a large "vestibule" for all of your gear and cutting down on the wind is a nonissue because you can stake it to the ground and then open the vent on top and still have good airflow. I honestly love the thing. Hoping for a cuben version in the future!

As Max said, check out the pocket tarp. But no option for bug protection if you ever need it.....

Edited by jleeb on 11/04/2013 19:58:23 MST.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/04/2013 20:35:40 MST Print View

A true free standing tent is going to be over 35 oz and or very small particularly if you don't sleep on the floor without a mat, as some manufacturers seems to suggest you do with theirs...

Since wind/weather protection is your main point (and you are 6' tall and probably don't fancy 30" high doors...) you could take a look at the Tarptent Moment with fabric inner.

It is around 35oz but you have a shelter that sets up dry in around a minute, gives you full protection all around , so no problem with wind changing direction during the night.

The only bit of extra real estate apart from the fly would be two pole guylines taking the total of stakes needed to 4.

As a bonus when it rains you can take the inner off (takes a minute) and have extra room inside to cook or get changed.

franco@tarptent

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/04/2013 20:50:26 MST Print View

"Anything with netting down low isnt too good."

Why, specifically?

I've used a couple of shelters with perimeter netting, and I thought that added just a touch of ventilation with bug protection. Besides, if you don't want the ventilation on one night, just pitch it lower so that the netting is all on the ground.

Your one-pound limit is very restrictive. I use a shaped cuben fiber tarp with two Fibraplex poles. Not only is there no netting down low, there is nothing at all down low. I normally pitch it with the edges the major part of a foot above ground. With guylines and a plastic sheet for the ground, the total weight is right at 16 ounces. However, it is intended mostly for a summer shelter for the Sierra.

--B.G.--

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/04/2013 21:02:47 MST Print View

A pound is doable, but maybe not under my conditions. Some of my trips do have wind, plus in the Fall, it would be nice, although I have had the Squall out and been snowed/snow pelleted on, then had that freeze. Just getting older and getting to prefer a bit more protection, although Franco or someone mentioned a short time back about it being lighter to add insulation to a bag then adding protection in a shelter, something like that. Some netting is needed for ventilation, but I've had bugs on most of my bp trips this year, even a month ago along the PCT up north here by the Middle Fork of the Feather River and Bucks Lake Wilderness.
Yep, I've considered a TT for Winter use, but I have a BD Hilight. I had a bivy for one overnighter this Spring, I did not like the slowness of getting in and out of it, maybe a bulky one and a spacious, but light cuben tarp combo and a headnet.
Duane

John Harper
(johnnyh88) - M

Locale: The SouthWest
Re: Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/04/2013 21:06:48 MST Print View

What about an Oware Alphamid? This tarp has always intrigued me: 18.5 oz in silnylon, 9 ft long, 4.5 ft wide, and 5 ft tall. It would be pretty easy to tie off to a tree with its flat face. Cuben might be an option - you'd have to ask Oware.

An Uber Bivy from Miles Gear would be about the smallest footprint you could get.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/04/2013 21:57:18 MST Print View

Oware is out of the one small tepee, then you need to add in netting somewhere, if only they and TT would go cuben.
A MLD solo cuben inner net is 6.5oz, ZPacks flat cuben 7'X9' tarp is 5.3 oz, add stakes and a couple poles, at 17 oz. depending on brand of pole.
Duane

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Get a Gatewood on 11/04/2013 22:13:44 MST Print View

+1 on the Gatewood. You get a full CYA rain gear and 360 coverage shelter in an 11oz package. Add a small bundle or 6 Ti stakes and whatever you are going to use for a pole. You could get the carbon pole for it, but I would get one SUL adjustable carbon fiber trekking pole just for cool factor. I use trekking poles anyway, so I've never had to address that issue. You wanted an excuse to use a trekking pole anyway, right?

You can stake it down tight or jack it up 6" as needed. The design lends itself to stacking rocks on top of your stakes for wind insurance. I use a wide polycryo ground cloth so I can spread things out in the big floor space. No reason you couldn't make a polycryo or space blanket bathtub for it. If get tired of the bugs, there is the inner net available.

There is 35 square feet of space under the canopy-- as much as many 2 person shelters. And it has a *door* with a *zipper* that you can open and close or guy it out to catch a breeze. Pretty sexy for a rain cape, I mean tarp, I mean tent :)

You get there with a completely dry pack too-- forgot that part. It kind of looks like a tossed salad coming down the trail in rain gear mode, but I like salads :) If you get stuck out on a day hike, you can get out your "rain coat" and sleep under it.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Get a Gatewood on 11/05/2013 06:52:58 MST Print View

Has this been updated or changed? I know a ULer from our group here in CA used the Gatewood on one trip maybe 5 years back or so and even for him he thought it was pretty minimal. I just hate fiddling with the gc in the event of a rain storm. You dont know if you got it right until it does come down.
Duane

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/05/2013 07:21:26 MST Print View

Well, this is a difficult set of parameters. No tents will actually fill all your needs. Here is one that comes closest to the weight, weather-proof, warmth and foot print, but you loose some head height and vestibule space. Expense??? well that is out the ceiling...
Check this: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/terra_nova_laser_ultra_1_tent_review.html

There are a few others. Again, listed in the same review. This is several years old, though.

Z-Packs makes a pretty good 3 season tent here: http://zpacks.com/shelter/hexamid_long.shtml
These take some time to set up and want a higher stick or hiking staff.

As far as a component system goes, The Yama people make a pretty good net tent that fills most requirements at about 9oz. This is mounted to the poles used for a tarp. A good tarp is about 8x11 to cover the net tent relatovly tightly. Z packs makes one at around 7.2oz. But, you need treking poles or you need to get carbon fiber poles.
A smaller tarp will work with a piece of netting over your head area. Lots of different combo's for this, but avoid gadgets. They never work as advertised, it seems.

I use a simple 9x11 tarp. Generally, nights are cool enough to keep most bugs down to tolerable levels. A 2oz piece of mesh covers that, OK. Carefull selection of ground, means I don't need to worry about heavy rains. The somewhat large tarp means cover with shifting winds. The tarp, stakes, and hiking staff weigh ~22oz for everything, easy to set up, really a large area, cook under it, etc. But, again, you are back to using at least one hiking staff.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Get a Gatewood on 11/05/2013 08:32:05 MST Print View

... Or a Wild Oasis. Same as the Gatewood but doesn't convert into a poncho and has perimeter netting.

My Review

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Get a Gatewood on 11/05/2013 08:45:10 MST Print View

A Gatewood is a minimal tent but certainly gives more protection than a simple tarp and it uses just one pole. Pitching is easy enough and you just have one guy line and that is right at the door and the pole is inside, so a tweak can be done without leaving the shelter.

I don't get what you mean about not knowing until it comes down--- you have a tight pitch or you don't. That is important with any shelter. Not knowing which direction the weather will come from is a problem with any open tarp, which is why I suggested the Gatewood.

You do have some tough parameters there. If not the Gatewood, I would look a a good Cuben mid design, but the footprint and cost will go up and you lose the rain gear weight savings.

Other than that, a good cat cut Cuben tarp is the benchmark for sub 1 pound shelters I think. You will need to add two poles, 6-8 stakes and room for all the lines. You may need to as a bivy for full weather protection.

Good questions! Happy gear stalking :)

Edited by dwambaugh on 11/05/2013 08:52:42 MST.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Get a Gatewood on 11/05/2013 09:05:04 MST Print View

Thanks all and Dale. Dale, I meant by my comment related to setup, if your gc is not right, the rain will quickly let you know. Ill take a look at more SMD stuff.
Duane

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Shelter setup on 11/05/2013 09:57:07 MST Print View

I think any shelter needs good site selection and orientation. Getting the slope and the direction of the weather right is always interesting. Double that for tarps.

A good taut pitch is the rule and taking a little care with that pays off. Silnylon will relax with rain or dew, so starting out right is important.

Getting a good purchase with stakes is important with minimalist shelters. Those of us raised with free standing dome tents were spoiled--- the stakes mainly kept the tent from sailing away. Lose a main guy on a tarp and down it comes. Tunnel tents are excellent shelters in heavy weather, but they too rely on a couple strong guy lines to stay up.

Many of the UL modified dome double wall tents are marketed as free standing. After trying a few, I have come to the conclusion that this a lie. Yes, the inner tent may stand up on its own after putting together a Tinker Toy set of poles, but then you need a couple handfuls of stakes to get a completed pitch. Sinking 11-12 stakes to pitch a solo "free standing" tent is ridiculous! I have pitched 6-person car camping tents with fewer parts.

The Tarp Tent Rainbow has impressed me with needing just 6 stakes to pitch or just 2 if you use trekking poles. I think bit woul be a great choice for rocky ground. It does weigh nearly three times what my Gatewood does, and costs twice as much, but it is a full featured tent vs a SUL shelter.

I don't hike above treeline much, so hammocks have become my favorite. Sleeping on the ground is so ..... uncivilized :)

Kevin Babione
(KBabione) - MLife

Locale: Pennsylvania
Gatewood Cape on 11/05/2013 10:35:00 MST Print View

Duane,

Like Dale I've moved up to hammocks, but I have a Gatewood Cape (seam sealed - that was a pain) that I've used a couple of times that I'm happy to loan you to try if you'd like. You'll need a trekking pole or other support (I used a straight stick broken to the correct length once when I wanted to take my trekking pole on a side trip).

PM me if you're interested.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Gatewood Cape on 11/05/2013 11:29:01 MST Print View

Thank you for the Gatewood offer. I remember once in awhile to view my campsite after setting up to see if a hammock would work there. I remember maybe once in 10 trips. :(
My biggest concern after spending some of my dough this year has been the staked footprint of anything. I could live with netting, just want to be able to stake a shelter in a smaller area. I would love to get a TT Rainbow except for the weight. I wish Henry used cuben, never read the reason he does not use it. After using the ZPacks Hexamid solo tent, kinda hard to accept anything heavier. I forget all the companies out there, so names help me alot, I can, after much research and weighing info (Libra here, hard to make decisions) make up my mind, but then I made up my mind enough already this year to the detriment of my checkbook. I'm at lunch, so it is about over, no research this morning now.
Duane

Kevin Babione
(KBabione) - MLife

Locale: Pennsylvania
Gatewood Cape on 11/05/2013 12:26:15 MST Print View

So - take me up on my offer, if only to see the footprint of the GC when it's set up in your back yard. I'm a big guy - 6 feet tall and 250+ lbs - and I was a little skeptical about having enough space under it, but I was always fine. I pitch it pretty high when I'm not expecting bad weather and low when I am. There's a big difference when you can have 6" of airflow under the entire shelter. The other thing that's nice about the GC is that the footprint doesn't change when it's elevated in the air...You just end up with more usable room inside.

I know I'm not going to be using it until the Spring at the earliest so there's no hurry returning it. I'm a big fan of SMD products (two packs, two tents, plus the GC) so all this will cost you is return postage...Outbound is on me.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Rainbows on 11/05/2013 12:45:23 MST Print View

I don't speak for Henry Shires, but the Rainbow is already $245, so a Cuben version would be pushing the edges of the market. The design might not be Cuben friendly as well. The Rainbow is making full use of the tension on the fabric, so it may not be a simple switch. It would be cool, as would a Cuben Gatewood.

Let me add some heresy to consider: unless you want to play the SUL game and if the rest of your kit is very light, I wouldn't fear adding another pound for a good shelter. That would open up all kinds of alternatives and probably give you a better margin of safety--- and comfort.

As to hammocks, you will be hauling more than a pound there. You need reliable forest cover. Dense clumps of small sub-alpine trees don't work very well if at all. If you are camping with a mix of above and below treeline sites, you need a setup that is even more versatile (read heavy, complex and expensive). A good hammock tarp can be used on the ground, but would require poles and space--- they can be big. But there is nothing like swingin' in the trees, away from the rocks, mud, roots and bugs.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Get a Gatewood on 11/05/2013 12:48:55 MST Print View

"I meant by my comment related to setup, if your gc is not right, the rain will quickly let you know."

Not directed at anyone, but we need to keep in mind that skill and technique will always trump gear. Skill and technique also includes bringing the right gear for the trip.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
My solution on 11/05/2013 12:53:06 MST Print View

I've sold my original TT Moment(SW) and getting the TT Moment DW.

Initially I'll get the ripstop inner tent for this winter and next spring I'll get the net inner tent.

So then I'll have 4 options for tents:

1. fly W/"solid" inner (& the crossing pole for winter)
2. fly W/net inner
3. fly alone
4. net inner alone

But, yeah, I'm looking at 2 lbs. for the solid inner and fly together, twice your goal.
Cuben fabric is just way too 'spensive unless I quit buying firearms and reloading equipment.

Edited by Danepacker on 11/05/2013 16:17:55 MST.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/05/2013 13:19:37 MST Print View

It really depends of where you want to compromise.
Freestanding,size,weight,small footprint,weather protection.
At least one of the above has to go.
This is a Terra Nova Laser Ultra.
TN Laser Ultra
Pretty close to what you want at 1 lb 4oz packed weight.
The same tent in silnylon is 1 lb 9 oz (Laser Photon)
The point here is that keeping the same design, Cuben saves a few ounces not pounds.
Note that headroom is 34", so this would be the compromise for you here.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/05/2013 13:28:50 MST Print View

"Pretty close to what you want at 1 lb 4oz packed weight."

Plus, add the weight of some decent tent stakes.

--B.G.--

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Tent/shelter system with small staked footprint under 1 lb. total possible? on 11/05/2013 14:16:07 MST Print View

Nick, you cant always see that the ground is sloping the right direction. I take 30 minutes sometimes deciding which spot is best. I agree with you though about gear being trumped.
Duane

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: camp sites on 11/05/2013 15:53:54 MST Print View

"you cant always see that the ground is sloping the right direction"

Or the evil properties of running water through that campsite :) Yeah, time to throw down the ground cloth and give it a test--- if it's not pouring buckets. Many times, you don't get much choice and overused sites are hollowed, so you get a nice puddle. Lovely, camping in a muddy pond.

Just to rub it in: with the hammock, I can handle up to 45 degrees or so slope on my campsite. The limit is how far up I can reach on the lower tree to set the suspension and still keep my backside off the dirt once I'm in the hammock. And that is if there aren't two trees on the traverse of the hill. Puddles are meaningless, along with anything else short of something that might impale me in a fall.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
An 18oz. Solution on 11/05/2013 17:18:39 MST Print View

I wanted many of the same features as you but with the additional flexibility of having a modular system. The total weight of the inner and outer comes in at 18oz and uses .74 cuben and nanonoseem. The ability to have a small footprint was very important since I often will setup camp in the dark in less than idea spots. This was likely the lightest weight setup that could be made gave my design constraints.

Outer
Mid outer with net inner installed

Inner
Net Inner

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Getting wet on 11/05/2013 17:19:25 MST Print View

I've only had my bag or clothes get wet twice now, just in the last three years. A few years ago on my last night out in the Winds, my Polartec top used as my pillow got wet and two weeks ago my bags foot because I didn't get out and bring my gc inside. I guess my sb needs to be retreated. In the Winds, I thought I selected the best spot, you can never tell. Thank you all.
Duane

Jacob Linton
(gardenhead) - F

Locale: Western NC
MLD Solomid on 11/05/2013 17:31:34 MST Print View

Not exactly what you're asking for, but if it were me I'd probably get an MLD Solomid then figure out the pole. The solomid with perimeter netting feels pretty roomy, and just feels like a good bit of easy/usable space. Pretty small footprint, and a super good all-around shelter. Not totally related, but I find alot of the UL manufacturers gear to feel much less robust than MLD stuff and I just feel more comfortable relying on it in nasty conditions.
I'm using an MLD Cricket now, but I'd be hard pressed to find something other than a Solomid to replace it with.

with netting:
19 oz silnylon, 14 oz cuben

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Getting wet on 11/05/2013 17:31:56 MST Print View

I camped for a couple of weeks in Alaska. The good news was that I was in a forest of trees, so I did not have to worry about horizontal wind or rain. A little bit came straight down. The bad news was that a puddle formed directly underneath my ground sheet, so things got a bit damp. I used a GG SpinnShelter for that, and it was too long. In Alaska, nothing ever dried out.

--B.G.--

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: An 18oz. Solution on 11/05/2013 17:40:37 MST Print View

Malto...what mid is that?

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
This is what BPL is for! on 11/05/2013 17:45:17 MST Print View

My hammock tarp weighs 4oz, and I've slept under that before with the 4oz groundsheet from my tent. Both are silnylon. You can skimp on protection and get a flat or near-flat tarp and 4 guylines and use trees, and easily get under 10oz.

Given what you lose, though, in terms of protection, you gotta look at what nick said; the right shelter for the trip.

That being said, this is EXACTLY the type of thread we should be absolutely dying to participate on in BPL. It's been a while since we've had a good old-fashioned Ounces battle.

Tom Lyons
(towaly) - F

Locale: Smoky Mtns.
GC on 11/05/2013 18:07:17 MST Print View

I'll throw in another plug for the Gatewood Cape.
It offers excellent protection and easy set up, and I have never had any trouble at all getting it right, or ever got wet in the rain. And it is very light, and offers rainwear protection if you want it for that too.
For the price, I personally don't think it can be beat. I think it is one of the most overlooked shelter options, and I can't understand why.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: Re: An 18oz. Solution on 11/05/2013 19:15:24 MST Print View

Jennifer,
I made it. It most closely resembles a solomid but I made it with an offset peak to increase the headspace in the right place.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Why I don't consider poncho shelters on 11/05/2013 19:25:17 MST Print View

Why isn't the gatewood cape more popular?

Ok, I'll voice an opinion, and I'm 100% sure this is near-heresey and I'll get flak for it:


I think ponchos look really ridiculous. If I'm gonna die in the woods, god help me if I'm in a poncho. Don't let my mother see it!

Is this decision at my own detriment? Probably.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Why I don't consider poncho shelters on 11/05/2013 19:36:06 MST Print View

You'd better watch out, the poncho monster is out there and attacks primarily people who hate ponchos.


No, not hearsay, but personally i don't understand why looks would matter. Except for a rare few things, function and practicality almost always trumps aesthetics for me (perhaps my own little rebellion in being married to an art teacher..). Granted, i never much liked the glaring Dupont label on homewrap. Nor can i much abide the color red in most shades (so i guess i even have some aesthetic limits).

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
An 18oz. Solution on 11/05/2013 19:57:20 MST Print View

Thank you for asking Jennifer. I like that modular concept, if it works. I can get away with a very simple shelter or even a bivy late in the season here in the Sierra. I had to start somewhere with some parameters, some variance might be acceptable. However, three weeks ago when I was along the PCT just north of the Feather River and south of Lookout Rock on the Plumas NF here in CA, I got rained on at Bear Creek, it wasn't supposed to do anything. I had my Hexamid with me luckily. Even with a minimal shelter or cowboy camping I would have been screwed, even with the half hour rain. Ounces count. After having the ZPacks Hexamid tent at 12.5 oz. with stakes and tent pole, it is hard to back track to a heavier shelter again. I know, fish or cut bait. The other thing that would ease my having the heavier Skyscape X (see Gear Swap for my ad), is I want to get a EE quilt or ZPacks sb, saving me the weight of my 24oz WM Caribou sb, with a weight savings of 9 oz. over the gained 9 oz. of a shelter if it weighed 20 or 21 oz.
It was asked earlier, my base weight is around 8 lbs. for a week long trip with a 5 oz. Ursack, I was in the 22-24 lb. range last summer with a qt or two of water, so I am getting lower in base weight.
Im excited to get some snow soon so I can try out my new Zimmer, winter volume pack and XTherm pad. The new pack is over 3 lbs. lighter than my old Epperson pack and my pad system will be maybe 1.5 lbs lighter, using two GG torso length Nightlight pads and the XTherm versus my Exped DAM9 and blue ccf pad which was a pain to get uncurled.
Duane

PS, remember Im wanting a small staked footprint, not just light. 8'X12' or so is not small.

Edited by hikerduane on 11/05/2013 19:59:23 MST.

Chad B
(CenAZwalker) - F

Locale: Southwest
Hexamid Reconsidered on 11/05/2013 19:58:10 MST Print View

I realize you had a Hexamid and sold it, but here is a setup I've been trying out recently.

Hexamid Solo Tarp w/beak, z-lines w/linelocs,seam taped = 166 grams
SMD Serenity Nettent = 236 grams
Total = 402 grams (14.18oz)

Weights do not include stuff sacks, single trekking pole or stakes. I personally don't find the footprint of the Hexamid to be all that big, but maybe you're setting up in much tighter places than I am. This is the best photo I have at this time.hex

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Why I don't consider poncho shelters on 11/05/2013 20:42:18 MST Print View

Poncho and capes aren't the trim fashion statement, that's for sure. Going on previous threads where people write about not taking rain gear, I think the Gatewood makes a very good alternative. It's a tarp tent and will keep you and your pack nice and dry if it does pour. The Cape has more loose fabric tucked under than a poncho does, but it is easy to manage and makes for a much better shelter. If you don't need rain gear, you didn't pack one more gram than needed.

Ponchos are light and relatively cheap, but they don't give full coverage as a shelter. I think a poncho tarp needs a bivy to be a complete meal, which steals part of the the bargain for weight and cost.

I usually carry a poncho and a space blanket bivy for my day hiking CYA setup. I've sat out some heavy rain showers under a tree sitting on my Z-seat, wearing a poncho and my pack between my legs. Everything stays nice and dry and I'm still covered to the knees when I'm on the move. The space blanket bivy is for worst-case-stuck-out-overnight scenarios. That combo is 2/3 of what an average rain jacket weighs.

All you need for a poncho or cape is what I call a "monk's belt." Take 8' of light line and double it with a toggle. That goes around your waist and under your pack, with the toggle tucked above your waist belt buckle so it doesn't slide down. The loop simple hooks around the toggle and can be adjusted easily. That tucks in the sides of the poncho and wraps it up under your pack and keeping it away from your heels. You still have good airflow out the sides and the poncho is tamed in wind and brush. You will look like a tossed salad, but I hike solo, so there's no one to see me, not that I care anyway.

That bit of line can be used for emergency repairs, a snare, a spare guyline, a fire bow, or a shoelace. 0.25oz/7.1g total. You can use light shock cord the same way.

Monk's belt for a poncho

Monk's belt for a poncho

Edited by dwambaugh on 11/05/2013 20:43:01 MST.

Jon Leibowitz
(jleeb) - F - MLife

Locale: 4Corners
Re: Why I don't consider poncho shelters on 11/06/2013 07:47:17 MST Print View

Max, consider this.....

I've used the gatewood for about two years and have never considered using it for rainwear. I have it for emergencies but its sole purpose is my shelter. I have just not found anything better - and I've looked. When going out with no bugs it's an 11-ounce shelter that can take anything, has incredible amounts of room, goes up in a few minutes, and has excellent ventilation. I'm 6 foot and have so much extra room in it. I have gotten poured on entire nights and I have never gotten wet in the GWC. The spot for your head also offers incredible ventilation. The fact that it can be used as emergency rain gear is just icing on the cake.

I'm crossing my fingers for a Cuben version.

Edited by jleeb on 11/06/2013 07:51:35 MST.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Fashion First on 11/06/2013 08:05:11 MST Print View

99% of my hiking is with a group, and 50% of that is me leading a group. I hate to sink to the level where fashion matters, but I think it does when you're trying to look professional / pick up girls.

That being said, the emergency rainwear idea is definitely a good one. Having it "just in case" is something I can get behind for overnights that are supposed to be dry.

Jon Leibowitz
(jleeb) - F - MLife

Locale: 4Corners
Re: Fashion First on 11/06/2013 08:11:33 MST Print View

I use froggtoggs as my rainwear, which frankly is not very reliable but incredible at what it does until it rips. I love the fact that I have my gate wood as backup just in case. I've literally never used it as rainwear but it's there and in the meantime is a spectacular 3 season shelter that I have used on every trip I've gone on in the last two years.

D S
(smoke) - F
Tarp ? for Max on 11/06/2013 08:22:03 MST Print View

Hey MAX, what kind of Silnylon Hammock tarp do you have that only weighs 4 oz?

Mark Ries
(mtmnmark) - M

Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
staked footprint on 11/06/2013 08:40:13 MST Print View

I don't get the purpose of the small staked footprint a little extra cord
gets you around objects like trees and rocks which work to stake and guy out the tent also. I can appreciate a small footprint but I think you are asking for the impossible. I've gone from a TT rain shadow to a LH solo to a six moon wild oasis as my go to I'd rather have a hexamid but in my opinion its not that much of a step up for the money. I use a poncho as my ground sheet but that's soon to change I'm thinkin