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BPL wants input on proposed forum code of conduct
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Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Re: -1 on 11/04/2013 18:54:18 MST Print View

+1 on the -1.

You can solve the problem by not being baited by "red meat" posts.

Clayton Black
(Jivaro) - MLife
Synergy built his Forum on 11/04/2013 19:54:51 MST Print View

It's called 'synergy'.

"Synergy is the interaction of multiple elements in a system to produce an effect different from or greater than the sum of their individual effects. The term synergy comes from the Greek word synergia συνέργια from synergos, συνεργός, meaning "working together".

That's what created the forums here.

Ad nauseum attacks on the admin does not lend to the positive synergy. Make your complaint and move on to the next topic. Preferably something enlightening that peeps like me love about this site.

Repetition of the same problems that bother you on every thread where you can make some kind of connection gets old and becomes trolling after a while. Maybe the worst part of this is that new people that can bring new stories and new information are often greeted with snide remarks about the bad admin of BPL. WTF? That isn't necessary and does not help the forums you profess to love.

This site is full of great and even world class adventurers including the owner......and we are worried about his site management abilities? Frankly they are good enough for me. BPL changed my life and that includes the trolls here (before they were trolls).

Let it go. Nobody has been kicked off yet but unabashed poo slinging at the admin should be a reason to be kicked off.

And yes I'm worried about posting this and being trolled but since I don't post much I suppose it's worth the risk. But it is a shame that I have to worry about that. It shouldn't be like that.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Synergy built his Forum on 11/04/2013 20:10:02 MST Print View

"...but since I don't post much..."

More Than 1 post - check
Grammatically correct - check
Spelling - check
Spelled own name correctly - check

Clayton, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Edited by greg23 on 11/04/2013 20:11:38 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Synergy built his Forum on 11/04/2013 20:12:35 MST Print View

Nice post. And perhaps the first time Greek's been used here.

That's what I love about BPL - the range of folks that inhabit these digital halls is really something.

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Re: BPL wants input on proposed forum code of conduct on 11/05/2013 00:13:04 MST Print View

Triple +1, Clayton. Thanks for saying it so well.

Edited by JRScruggs on 11/05/2013 00:19:26 MST.

Infra Greg
(infragreg) - MLife
BPL wants input on proposed forum code of conduct on 11/05/2013 03:39:29 MST Print View

Clayton, that was excellently put.

Only thing I can add to some posters who have said that as feedback has been asked for, therefore it's not complaining, etc. I guess the important thing here is how feedback is expressed. Words as we all know have power, impact and meaning. And communicating with good motives makes all the difference.

I don't really post, as I'm usually too busy reading the articles or trying to read people's opinions on gear, etc. However, at least in this thread, it's heartening to see that the overwhelming posts have been positively constructed, and even the posters that have an issue with something or other, have generally, reasonably politely put their views forward.

Edited by infragreg on 11/05/2013 04:16:11 MST.

Richard Scruggs
(JRScruggs) - MLife

Locale: Oregon
Re: Re: Proposed Code of Conduct on 11/05/2013 11:29:38 MST Print View

Re Steve G saying: "Ryan may pay the bills but this site lives or dies by the forums."

This site was great even before it had any forums. Forums did not "make" this site.

Not that forums have "ruined" the site (at least not beyond introducing an element of personal insult and unproductive crabbiness at times), but this site certainly does not "live or die" by the forums.

Indeed, if it were nothing but forums, I wouldn't find it worth the time visiting near as much as I do to enjoy and learn from its non-forum features.

It was the site -- without any forums -- that hooked me way back in the beginning.

Edited by JRScruggs on 11/05/2013 11:30:42 MST.

Oliver Nissen
(olivernissen) - MLife

Locale: Yorkshire Dales
Code of conduct not so important... on 11/06/2013 11:32:36 MST Print View

I'm glad this discussion has turned more positive, but it's clear from the earlier train of this thread that the code of conduct isn't really BPL critics' major gripe. Dare I say it's a bit of a distraction?

But that being said, here's my two cents worth:

Don't blacklist unsubstantiated information and gossip - these rarely equate to lies and are rarely malicious. In fact, they're so natural to human communication I'd suggest trying to enforce their ban would be futile if not counter-productive. Unsubstantiated information and gossip are valuable as they're often the best stimuli to making the effort to try to find out the truth for oneself.

Edward Z
(Fuzz) - MLife

Locale: Sunny San Diego
Bravo on 11/06/2013 17:22:11 MST Print View

Bravo Clayton! Nicely put!

BJ Clark
(bj.clark) - MLife

Locale: Colorado
Re: Synergy built his Forum on 11/06/2013 19:28:13 MST Print View

Amen Clayton!

Peter S
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Miss on 11/07/2013 00:52:47 MST Print View

I hope Ryan Jordan will start to participate more directly in the forum. I miss him.

Hope that's positive enough.

Peter S
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Rules on 11/07/2013 01:08:23 MST Print View

And there's no need for endless rules. It is a distraction manoeuvre for sure.

Just be nice and keep chaffy subjects in chaff.

Maybe some rules for the staff would be more needed: Don't delete posts. Lock the threads if needed. Explain. More moderators than Roger.

I like this site. Let's make it better.

Ha det godt!

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Rules on 11/07/2013 07:42:05 MST Print View

"And there's no need for endless rules."

Thn people start arguing endlessly about the rules.

It's obvious what's acceptable and not.

Delmar O'Donnell

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Ideology. on 11/10/2013 10:20:58 MST Print View

I think acrimony could be greatly reduced if people were asked not to post based on personal ideology. That is, posting support for their ideology, or trying to recruit for it. Ideology includes: political orientation, gender orientation, religious orientation, nationalism, ethnic orientation, socialism, environmentalism, capitalism, etc. I've noticed that when someone has to get overtly ideological, that's when threads fall apart.

My hands aren't clean; I sometimes feel compelled to challenge other people's ideological statements, and then an ideology war breaks out. Was just involved in one of those. I let "the other guy" have the last say and didn't follow up. But I don't think the answer is to "not respond" to ideological provocation. I think the answer is to not post ideological content in the first place, or to let people know that ideological posts are frowned upon. BPL is not a place to recruit for ideology, and I get an ill feeling when it gets used that way.

Edited by Bolster on 11/10/2013 10:25:12 MST.

K ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Ideology. on 11/10/2013 10:38:06 MST Print View

Delmar, I agree with you somewhat, but one could argue that BPL ( and backpacking light in general) is based on an ideology. Less weight = all sorts of things but ultimately a better experience.

Edited because I meant "better" not "batter".

Edited by Kat_P on 11/10/2013 10:38:54 MST.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Ideology. on 11/10/2013 11:37:18 MST Print View

The whole premise of the site is an ideology. There is literally a subforum with "philosophy" in the title. People who engage on BPL bring their own ideologies to the table that influence their experience and practice with UL.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Ideology. on 11/10/2013 15:50:48 MST Print View

And the Monitor's ideology is better than anyone else's. So There!

PS: :-)

Delmar O'Donnell

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
LOL on 11/10/2013 20:01:21 MST Print View

Backpacking an ideology? LOL. I assume you are making a joke, in which case, good one.

Of course, perspectives, pursuits, ideas, and hobbies aren't the same as ideologies. To call any sort of backpacking an "ideology" is either to dilute the concept down to the point it's meaningless, or to misunderstand what ideology is. Most of the recognizable "-isms" are ideologies: capitalism, socialism, religions/atheism, feminism, environmentalism, nazism, and so on. They have structures, charismatic leaders, recruit followers, hate (or attempt to change) out-groupers, have visions of "the end," recommendations for salvation, and so on. See Barnett and Jost for definitions and examples of ideology.

If backpacking of any sort is an ideology, I'm getting the h-e-double-hockeysticks out of it.

Clearly, the insertion of one's ideology where it doesn't belong is gauche. And recruiting for one's ideology in a backpacking forum will of course stir up acrimony and resentment. It's no more welcome than someone knocking on your door and trying to recruit you into their belief system.

If I were to (for example) use this forum to launch a verbal attack on liberals, or conservatives, or Muslims, or Christians, or atheists, or feminists, we can certainly all agree that would be inappropriate. Attacking back--defending--is more justified in the face of an attack, but continues the acrimony. Best to avoid ideological discussions in the first place, which are by definition, off-topic for backpacking.

If this IS a forum for attacking people of various belief systems, I don't belong here, and neither do you. But it's not, and we do.

Edited by Bolster on 11/10/2013 21:13:23 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: LOL on 11/10/2013 20:37:35 MST Print View

"Backpacking an ideology?"

I think he meant this website, BPL, in an ideology.

Backpacking is just walking. BPL complicates it and makes it more than it really is.

Delmar O'Donnell

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Taken. on 11/10/2013 21:15:44 MST Print View

> Backpacking is just walking. BPL complicates it and makes it more than it really is.

Point taken. Well stated.