Forum Index » General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion » Hiker rescued for 2nd time on same Utah mountain


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eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
Hiker rescued for 2nd time on same Utah mountain on 10/29/2013 09:01:13 MDT Print View

A hiker had to be rescued twice this year from a Wasatch Range peak near Layton, taxing the patience of authorities.

......

Kuntz had food, water and clothing when he was airlifted from the mountain after setting out around 5 p.m. Friday, authorities said.

He complained he was tired and couldn't make it down the mountain, Davis County Deputy Jammie Embley told The Salt Lake Tribune.

.....


A spokeswoman for University of Utah Hospital couldn't immediately explain how it decides whether or not to bill a distressed hiker. Kuntz required no medical attention.



more at link ..

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/state-and-regional/utah/hiker-rescued-for-nd-time-on-same-utah-mountain/article_3348d3a3-be53-5efd-b906-1c9e6c21dbfe.html

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Hiker rescued for 2nd time on same Utah mountain" on 10/29/2013 13:59:34 MDT Print View

And that story will spur the debate over whether people should be charged for rescues that stem from stupidity or laziness.

Valerie E
(Wildtowner) - F

Locale: Grand Canyon State
RE: Hiker rescued for 2nd time on same Utah mountain on 10/29/2013 16:26:55 MDT Print View

Dena, in this case, anyway, I don't think there will be any debate.

This guy is clearly not ANYONE'S poster-boy...sigh.

dave e
(hipass) - F

Locale: Los Angeles
bill on 10/31/2013 09:58:16 MDT Print View

i think he s proven that the first emergency wasnt a fluke therefore should be charged for BOTH rescues.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Not that clear cut... on 11/04/2013 13:14:31 MST Print View

I agree- probably an idiot. But on the other hand there are a hell of a lot more urban idiots who waste the time of the police and/or EMS, so why do the wilderness idiots deserve to be particularly singled out?

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Not that clear cut... on 11/04/2013 13:19:08 MST Print View

"...so why do the wilderness idiots deserve to be particularly singled out?"

1) Because their stupidity may have a direct impact on the cost of my S&R.

2) The urban idiots are the norm, are factored in, don't require a massive response.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Not that clear cut... on 11/04/2013 13:45:07 MST Print View

"there are a hell of a lot more urban idiots who waste the time of the police and/or EMS"

I've read stories about these folks getting charged with abuse of the 9-1-1 system and other such charges for ridiculous stuff. Don't know that anyone goes to jail, but they pay fines and such.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
righteous indignation on 11/05/2013 06:56:20 MST Print View

Then I expect to see all of you here on the forums expressing your righteous indignation the next time you see a story about some idiot calling 9-1-1 because he can't find his car in the mall parking lot... :)

Edited by acrosome on 11/05/2013 06:57:38 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: righteous indignation on 11/05/2013 08:37:27 MST Print View

What about the fact we all pay for it (phone tax and other taxes), even if we don't use it?

How about making those who utilize 911 absorbing all of the cost?

Indignation.

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
The is no unified answer on 11/05/2013 09:52:17 MST Print View

The BOTTOM LINE that is fast approaching in ALL areas of Outdoor Recreation is the "Pay to Play" norm. A good example is a summer 2011 issue:

"The USFS continues to illegally charge fees to access the public lands that we all own. Many trailheads in our local Wenatchee Okanogan National Forest are out of compliance with federally mandated amenities making them illegal to charge fees at. Given the 2 citations for parking in the forest while hiking, the corrupt system of paying to use public lands will not face court review for us and intimidation continues. Privatization is the ultimate goal, making the forest a corporate pay to use system. Read more here at westernslopenofee.org and you will see it is there."

Now to the subject.....

As you know, NOT all cases of EVACUATION or MEDICAL ASSISTANCE are under the control of the individual and, should be looked at when dollar aspect of the incident is evaluated, as it does costs to staff and run rescue operation facilities even if it is military provided. There is no unified answer to who should or should not be charged AND the costs of these organizations that are helping individuals are expensive and one that the tax payer usually ends up taking the brunt of the cost even if user fees are required.

If you are anxious concerning that "it might happen to me and........" you could cover yourselves in a small amount in times of ANY EVACUATION or MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, by joining the American Alpine Club as a member you would receive $5,000 Global Rescue Trailhead Benefit and a $5,000 Domestic Rescue Insurance Benefit. While this insurance would probably not cover any bill in totality, it is more than nothing, if payment arises and you are a part of that issue.

SKILLS, JUDGMENT & LEADERSHIP are items that will keep people safe and comfortable and accidents can even happen to the best of us that are prepared.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: The is no unified answer on 11/05/2013 11:36:54 MST Print View

" ... you could cover yourselves in a small amount in times of ANY EVACUATION or MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, by joining the American Alpine Club...."

But before you do, read the Exclusions -

Prone to asthma problems that might lead evacuation?
Diabetic ......?
Talked to your doc about heart problems?
Treating some medical condition that leads to the evacuation?

If so, this policy is not for you.


And -
"To use your Trailhead Rescue benefit, AAC members must call Global Rescue as soon as possible during an emergency." So don't forget to take the phone number and then call from that remote mountain meadow.

Like a lot of plans, the "lawyer loopholes" are very real.

Sara Dhooma
(Sara)

Locale: Southwestern Ontario, Canada
Helicopter Rescue on 11/05/2013 11:50:30 MST Print View

I hiked to Everest Base Camp a few weeks ago. A local told my friend and I that she knew how to get rescue helicopters covered for free at the end of the trek if we didn't want to walk back. She told us she'd coach us with altitude sickness symptoms and make all the arrangements. She said a broken bone is not enough, it had to be altitude sickness to get full coverage. I was shocked by her offer but I guess some actually people do this!

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Helicopter Rescue on 11/05/2013 12:05:57 MST Print View

I believe it Might be possible to fake a life threatening condition, but I doubt if the ride to the hospital is free ...

"Depending on where the helicopter flights starts and fly to, it costs between USD$4,000 to $20,000 per flight and is very weather dependent. In 2012, 30 people were helicoptered from Base Camp to Lukla at a cost of $4,000 each due to illness."



Karen A. Whelan says:
March 21, 2013 at 8:07 am

"I was one of the evacuaees in 2012 from Everest Base Camp. The cost was $8,500.00 for the Helicopter. I did have insurance so perhaps the lesser amount listed in the article is the negotiated price, but [the] 8.5k was billed by Fishtail."

Edited by greg23 on 11/05/2013 12:46:51 MST.

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
There is no unified answer on 11/05/2013 13:07:39 MST Print View

Greg....Your statement below is well taken.
"But before you do, read the Exclusions -
Prone to asthma problems that might lead evacuation?
Diabetic ......?
Talked to your doc about heart problems?
Treating some medical condition that leads to the evacuation?

If so, this policy is not for you."

......I DO NOT find information stated above that Greg has eluded to in the AAC SCHEDULE OF RESCUE BENEFITS that I have posted below????

It's unfortunate that there are individual alpine climbers as well as backpackers on a Sierra Club Outing or a clients of a climbing company that have knowing kept critical information from guides AND climbing company responsible for their expedition's safety AND put themselves AND their fellow compainions AND rescue personnel at risk! It is a shame but, this is human behavior that many times stems from unrealistic egos, stupidity and laziness.

Today, in the climbing and backpacking community individuals carry various electronic devices that can reach out most anywhere for help if in a conscious condition. The use of electronic devices is becoming more prevalent with backpackers, as expedition and alpine climbers have use to "cover their emergencies" for a long time with sat phones.

Filing a claim is to be within 30 days of evacuation by calling or by emailing and the activities covered by AAC insurance include backpacking, climbing, backcountry skiing, Mt biking and more.....basically if it human powered on land you are covered. (No exclusions for any land-based backcountry activity (anything beyond the trailhead). "Land-based" means Global Rescue will not cover any activity on water such as kayaking, sailing, etc.)
For more information comprehensive documentation of the AAC plan refer to: http://www.americanalpineclub.org/uploads/mce_uploads/RescueBenefitGridv.3.pdf

Edited by KENLARSON on 11/05/2013 14:41:42 MST.