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Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Bad Feedback for Moosejaw on 10/22/2013 08:24:46 MDT Print View

I like Moosejaw's marketing, it makes me laugh. So I bought OR pants from their site.

I was paying with Paypal, and the employee told me to go ahead and place the order, and he'd price match my $90 to $50 for me (OR was selling them on Amazon for that much).

I needed them for Wednesday, so I selected 2-day Fed Ex shipping for $22 last Friday, at around 3 in the afternoon.


Moosejaw charged me the full $113, then refunded me the $39 three days later, which is now tied up in Paypal with an indefinite hold. Ok. I don't know why they couldn't just charge me a lower cost initially...

Then, I checked the shipping status of the order and as of today, it still hasn't shipped at all. I contacted Moosejaw and they told me "You misread the site. That's the date we're shipping the item." So I paid $22 for 2-day shipping so they could take 4 days just to ship it. I asked for an expected delivery date. They said "We don't do delivery dates, and I can't find it so I'll send it to our 'special orders' team."

So here I am, out $61 dollars until who-knows-when, with pants that won't ship. I should have gone directly to OR, or to Amazon, or to backcountry, etc...


I feel like, in 2013, "Shipping" should mean "When does it get to my house?" Just because of the bureaucratic hassle, Moosejaw is not getting my business again.

Edited by mdilthey on 10/22/2013 08:33:58 MDT.

And E
(LunchANDYnner) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
that sucks on 10/22/2013 09:08:36 MDT Print View

Sorry to hear that. This day and age, there shouldn't really be any excuse for larger retailers not being able to ship out products within a day/next day, provided order is made before carrier pickup. Shoot, even Backcountry ships out their geartrade.com orders within 24 hours and ships free 2 day shipping!

One thing I hate and always seems to be a headache for me is when Amazon uses OnTrac to ship my package here in the west. They've already lost my package before (have never have had that happen with any other carrier) shipping from Seattle to mill creek (20 miles... How does one lose a package being shipped 20 miles) and yesterday they threw my electronics package up onto my balcony instead of taking it to the office which is right infront of my apartment, 100 feet away. Luckily, nothing was broken.

I already asked amazon customer service to never ship me anything through OnTrac again when they lost my package but looks like they forgot. I'll have to call them again. I pay a premium to have a Prime membership and shouldn't have to deal with OnTrac's incompetence.

You should call moosejaw back and demand a refund for shipping.

Edited by LunchANDYnner on 10/22/2013 09:12:02 MDT.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Refund on 10/22/2013 09:45:13 MDT Print View

I got in touch with Moosejaw and they refunded me for shipping. Still, being the only site on the world wide web which lists shipping dates instead of delivery dates to make it look like they're faster is pretty sleazy.

Idk, if it's easier and more reliable to order from backcountry and amazon... guess what! You lose a customer, Moosey!

:P

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Moosejaw shipping on 10/22/2013 09:51:38 MDT Print View

I placed my first-ever Moosejaw order a couple of weeks ago. They estimated between 2-7 days to get to me. It turned out they used FedEx's SmartPost shipping. This meant that FedEx gets it to Denver, and then hands it over to the USPS system for delivery. Tracking was seldom updated in a timely manner, and sure enough, it took 7 full days to get to me. SmartPost must be a cheap way for FedEx to ship things, and they only do it for small packages. I guess the truck is going from point A to point B anyway, so why not fill up the nooks and crannies with dinky packages?. But Max's situation was different, since he paid extra to expedite shipping. Do you suppose that Moosejaw simply did it via the pokey FedEx SmartPost system anyway?

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
The Ol' Back-And-Forth on 10/22/2013 09:55:58 MDT Print View

Well, when I talked to the Moosejaw employee last friday, I used the same language I use with Backcountry to let the chat employee grant you some of the benefits of being a frequent customer. I told him when I needed it by and asked if there was a promotional reduction on shipping. On Backcountry, they usually say "Ah, take 2-day!"

Moosejaw said they didn't, so I said, alright, I'll do it with Fed-Ex 2-day, and the employee said "Ok, sounds good!"

So, he knows when I need it by and is watching me pick a shipping speed... and says nothing about the actual scenario:

The ACTUAL scenario is that Moosejaw is "Drop-shipping" the pants, where they list the order but Outdoor Research actually ships the product. That's how I understood it, I may be wrong. When I questioned the second employee today on the shipping speed, he told me I misread the site and that it wasn't shipping until today.

Well, actually, he kind of accused me of being impatient, and told me "it's only 10AM!" I expected the package to ship Friday or Saturday, not today.

Really confusing, really difficult. A big headache I didn't need. Luckily, my trip got delayed anyways so I'm not literally out a pair of pants (not that a pair of pants would keep me out of the woods).

Edited by mdilthey on 10/22/2013 09:57:40 MDT.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
The Moosejaw Two-Step on 10/22/2013 10:01:18 MDT Print View

The funniest thing about this is that BPL is completely part of my journey. From inception, to search, to choosing a pair of pants, to shipping. Maybe later they won't fit and I'll gear swap them to complete the beautiful cycle.

Justin McCabe
(justinmc) - M

Locale: Southern California
Re: Bad Feedback for Moosejaw on 10/22/2013 11:32:29 MDT Print View

+1 for what And E said about On Trac sucking. They lost THREE of my deliveries. Straight up LOST. Tracking said "at front door" all three times, and all three times....no package. Amazon refunded my money no problem but seriously, if you ever feel like ordering a package and not getting it, use On Trac.

Thought I'd rant about shipping as well.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
That's useful... on 10/22/2013 13:12:12 MDT Print View

I get it. First world problems. I'm not going to apologize for my lifestyle. Guilt is not a productive way to live.

I blame centuries of world governments using Africa as a proxy warground, funding and arming militia forces and the impoverished and disposing successful governments in favor of easily manipulated warlords for the state of things in the third world.

Realistically, I have as much chance of positively affecting Africa in a meaningful way through donation as I do of disposing the United States government. Donating a bit to water pumps is a bandage on a gushing wound.

Devil's Advocate; There's a chance that your donations give actual governments with real power more reason not to step in and fix the REASONS for the problems, like a nonexistant infrastructure for civil services.

You keep donating. My brother and I are attacking it from a different angle. He's studying political science, I'm in journalism and resource management. Hopefully, my voice will be loud enough that I won't have to put quarters in a Unicef box to feel like I'm elitist on BPL....

Edited by mdilthey on 10/22/2013 13:12:43 MDT.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Giving other people a heads up, that's all. on 10/22/2013 15:31:36 MDT Print View

I'm not whining without reason. In the gear forum, people warn each other about trouble with products, manufacturers, and distributors. if it's not relevant to you, don't click it.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Giving other people a heads up, that's all. on 10/22/2013 15:49:15 MDT Print View

I thought your post was useful, Max, thanks

and we can also worry about more important things like water for everyone in the world

Jason Guerricabeitia
(BasqueJ88) - M
This^^^ on 10/22/2013 15:50:39 MDT Print View

Max is right. It sounds like he got some poor customer service. If you don't want to read it, disregard it and move on.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Giving other people a heads up, that's all. on 10/22/2013 15:51:08 MDT Print View

There have been plenty of posts about customer service issues with suppliers, and I appreciate hearing about them.

That aside, any vendor who advertises "2-day shipping" and says that is their time to ship vs transit time isn't dishonest, THEY ARE ON SOME MIND ALTERING DRUGS-- or just plain old stupid. I've heard a lot of finely ground BS over the years, but that takes the cake! Just the idea that it takes 48 hours to package and ship an electronic order is ludicrous and is nothing to brag on. IMHO, any order received by noon at the shipper's location should go out the same day and most certainly the next day. I would read that as "shipped next business day" or 24 hours. If they are going to do the "2 day" thing, it should be clearly stated; otherwise, I would make the same assumption that Max did.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
don't care. on 10/22/2013 16:06:01 MDT Print View

"And you are correct that we don't care. You are just wrong with regard to what it is that we don't care about. We don't care that these type of posts bother you."

+1.

Using a fringe backpacking forum on the internet to complain about someone (validly) complaining about a product and service for which they paid. Now THAT is a first world problem.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Worse than 48 hours. on 10/22/2013 16:07:17 MDT Print View

It's worse than that... Friday afternoon, I pay $22 for Fed-Ex 2-day service and it's not until TUESDAY that the item ships. As of 6:00PM, my item still hasn't shipped. Holding out hope that it's a delay in notification and not shipping...

Ian Destroyer of Forums
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Michael has a stick up his bum on 10/22/2013 16:39:40 MDT Print View

I've got Michael's back on this. From my youth, there are precious few movies which I consider sacred:

Red Dawn
Highlander
Road Warrior

Max's avatar is nothing short of heresy... Moose Jaw's jacked up customer no-service and dishonest shipping be darned.

And E
(LunchANDYnner) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
sled jousting on 10/22/2013 16:44:15 MDT Print View

This should be settled over some sled jousting, then beers.

Edited by LunchANDYnner on 10/22/2013 16:44:46 MDT.

Jeff Jeff
(TwoFortyJeff) - F
Re: Bad Feedback for Moosejaw on 10/22/2013 16:54:37 MDT Print View

Moosejaw has the worst customer service out of any online retailer I have used. The first order I made was cancelled after 2 days because they didn't have the item in stock (it said 2 in stock online) and they couldn't order any more. Now the website shows them as having 3 in stock.

Twelve days ago I decided to give them another shot because they had a 20% off coupon on a pair of pants I wanted. They won't be shipped until later this week, and it'll probably take 5 days for them to get here.

This was enough time for Backcountry.com to not only put the same pants on sale for 30% but to get them to me 3 days after I ordered them. And shipping was free!

But at least Moosejaw has a bunch of clever and sarcastic phrases on the website and in their emails. Hopefully their return process is easy. I'll consider the return shipping a lesson.

Edited by TwoFortyJeff on 10/22/2013 16:57:29 MDT.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Bad Feedback for Moosejaw on 10/22/2013 16:57:27 MDT Print View

If they arrive by USPS you can refuse to accept the package and it goes back at their cost.

Don't know how you handle the RMA side of things.

Jeff Jeff
(TwoFortyJeff) - F
Re: Re: Re: Bad Feedback for Moosejaw on 10/22/2013 16:58:54 MDT Print View

It's only a few bucks for shipping. I'd rather not risk not getting a full refund.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
first world problems on 10/22/2013 17:05:12 MDT Print View

every discussion on the BPL gear forum is a first world problem ...

and we arent talking about the important ones like food stamps, health care, oil spills, obesity, etc ...

but the REALLY important ones like whether one perfectly good headlamp is marginally better than another perfectly good one, or if one top end sleeping bag is a bit warmer than another top end one, etc ...

;)