Forum Index » GEAR » Does slick Spectra bear bag line deter rodents climbing down it?


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John Hillyer
(TrNameLucky) - MLife
Keep the smell down + thick cuben on 10/21/2013 19:49:47 MDT Print View

I wouldn't count on any kind of slippery line to protect your food. My food bag has never been hit. Other people's bags hanging next to mine have. The other bags that got hit have always been more smelly and less armored. I seal all food in at least zip-lock bags. Thicker bags are better than thin. Mylar bags are much better than normal plastic bags. Leave smelly stuff like garlic mashed potatoes in the original packaging. Mice/rats/squirrels are deterred by thick cuben bags. Not so sure about raccoons and marmots, but it sounds like if you hang your bag properly you won't have to deal with marmots.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Keep the smell down + thick cuben on 10/21/2013 20:21:44 MDT Print View

Appalachian mice aren't deterred by thick cuben unfortunately. That includes 2.5oz/yd cuben and hybrid cuben. I have had them chew holes in both in less than an hour. Prevention plus an Outsak has worked pretty well for me so far. Will have to test a small leader, that might work.

Ryan

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Keep the smell down + thick cuben on 10/21/2013 20:40:22 MDT Print View

what if you hang a bag so there are no horizontal surfaces, just steep, near vertical

can the mice hold on while they chew hole or will they just slide off?

maybe their claws esily penetrate fabric so they can hold on?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Keep the smell down + thick cuben on 10/21/2013 20:43:05 MDT Print View

Nylofume plastic bags should work a lot better since they are gas-proof.

--B.G.--

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Nylon oven bags? on 10/21/2013 20:47:39 MDT Print View

I've not heard of a nylofume bag. Source?

What about nylon oven bags? If the open end is well twisted and crimped?

Kronos Master of Fate
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Nylon oven bags on 10/21/2013 21:23:06 MDT Print View

Those turkey bags should work just fine. They are a favorite way to package up marijuana for transport up here. I don't smell anything through them. And that stuff reeks. Same as oven bags.

Nylofume bags are used by fumigating companies for your item storage while your house is being gassed.


Or lump it, and pack a canister.

Delmar, come to the GGG in January. A great chance to see what works for others in person.

Edit. Thanks for the correction Bob. Geez.

Edited by kthompson on 10/21/2013 21:33:02 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Nylon bags on 10/21/2013 21:25:32 MDT Print View

"Nylafume bags are used by fumigating companies for your item storage while your house is being gassed."

Nylofume is even better.

We had some of those traded around here a couple of years ago.

--B.G.--

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
GGG on 10/21/2013 21:39:21 MDT Print View

Thanks for the invite Ken.

I had to look up GGG. According to google, that would be:

(1) Girls Go Games (free online games for girls), or

(2) Good, Giving, and Game (from urban dictionary, so sexual connotations of course), or

(3) Gathering of Gear Geeks. I'll assume the invite was for this one.

Are So Cal'ers actually allowed?

You are the organizer of GGG are you not, sir? Next date would be?

Kronos Master of Fate
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Nylon bags on 10/21/2013 21:46:22 MDT Print View

Delmar, Look here

2013 GGG

and here


2014 GGG


Now back to food theft prevention.

I even allow out of staters', gasp..

Edited by kthompson on 10/21/2013 21:51:08 MDT.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Electrified food sacks on 10/22/2013 01:26:01 MDT Print View

I've mentioned it before regarding bears and it would do well with smaller critters: just electrify your food container. Nothing lethal of couse, just the same technology as an electric fence charger powered by batteries and used for some sort of bag, like an Ursak. One mouthful of loose electrons should be excellent negative reinforcement. The same device could have a buzzer and flashing lights to let the sleeping campers know they have visitors. It should be far lighter and more compact than any kind of bear can.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Does slick Spectra bear bag line deter rodents climbing down it? on 10/22/2013 09:10:28 MDT Print View

If you are not in bear country or otherwise not worried about bears, why not skip the bag hanging entirely?

A couple of Tritan based Nalgene large mouth 32 oz screw top bottles can fit a decent amount of food, and if you screw the top really hard i doubt anything is going to get in it! I'm sure a raccoon could probably get into it if the cap was screwed on more lightly, but i doubt they have the strength of "hands" to unscrew a cap very tightly screwed on by a grown man. If you're still worried about that, wrap and tie some of that cord around the screw cap to delay even further.

Those bottles are tough, tough, tough usually. Plus, they can double as your water reservoir.

Phillip Asby
(PGAsby) - M

Locale: North Carolina
Nalgene on 10/22/2013 09:24:30 MDT Print View

I guess you could even hang a Nalgene or two if you really needed to - it is an interesting thought and one I hadn't considered.

I'm also guessing the relative weight of that solution would be unappealing but it would fit into the "multi use" category at least once the food is eaten!

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Re: Re: Does slick Spectra bear bag line deter rodents climbing down it? on 10/22/2013 11:10:53 MDT Print View

> why not skip the bag hanging entirely?

Because it is the lightest method of securing food, by far. My spectra cord is 1 oz and an oven-roast bag another 0.5 oz, giving enough capacity for 5 days food.

Two Tritan Nalgenes would weigh 13 oz and would restrict my food space to 64 oz volume, just a scootch over one day's food (figuring 1.5 liters of space for a day's food, as has been discussed elsewhere here at BPL).

Plus, I've had rodents chew through heavy plastic buckets. Best to keep those rodent teeth far away as possible.

Edited by Bolster on 10/22/2013 11:18:34 MDT.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Nalgene on 10/22/2013 11:37:13 MDT Print View

Hi Philip,

No need to have to wait to eat the food if you already have the food in baggies, during the day food goes in pack and can use bottles for other things, and night it gets locked up in bottles.

Edited by ArcturusBear on 10/22/2013 11:59:27 MDT.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Does slick Spectra bear bag line deter rodents climbing down it? on 10/22/2013 11:58:36 MDT Print View

I see your points Delmar. Personally, I dislike the process of hanging food which is why where I backpack, even if I'm not sleeping in a shelter, I still usually sleep near one to take advantage of the bear poles they usually have.

1.5 liters a day? Well, I'm pretty spartan with food in comparison. 64 oz of food space could last me almost a week. But I have unusual diet, eating habits, and consistently have trained my body to a low calorie diet. I should have factored in that difference with others though.

Yes hanging is much lighter, but I believe the oven bags are not directly for hanging but to cut down on odor, I would put it all in either silnylon or cuben.

Not being a gram counter myself, conveniency is an important factor for me. But I don't backpack anywhere where bears are not an issue, so I won't be testing this myself but will stick with the lazy hangs with bear poles.

Different plastics have different properties. Tritan is VERY strong and durable stuff. I don't think any rodent could get into it during hours of sleep, but I may be wrong.

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Space of Food on 10/22/2013 12:55:56 MDT Print View

Don't hold my feet to the fire about the 1.5L per day; I've not done any research on it. There was a discussion on BPL somewhere about how much SPACE a day's food took, and I recollect the collective wisdom was, for dried and dehydrated foods, about 1.5L per day. Agree that hanging is a pain.

What's the rationale for not just hanging an oven bag? Why is the second layer of cuben or sylnylon necessary?

EDIT: Found the volume discussion, the numbers were between 1 and 1-1/2 L per day in space:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=73667&startat=20

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=53766

Edited by Bolster on 10/22/2013 13:01:17 MDT.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Space of Food on 10/22/2013 13:22:14 MDT Print View

I've never hung with oven bags so can't say for sure, but silnylon and cuben are going to have much stronger tensile strength which is important if you are hanging a lot of food. If you have already used oven bags alone successfully, then ignore the former.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Space of Food on 10/22/2013 13:28:03 MDT Print View

Many of us operate in areas where bear canisters are either required or else very practical. There is a standard volume of 100 cubic inches, and we attempt to beat that for each day's worth of food. Otherwise, it doesn't fit.

I did a nine-day trip with a Garcia can one time. That food was packed tightly.

--B.G.--

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Does slick Spectra bear bag line deter rodents climbing down it? on 10/22/2013 14:02:03 MDT Print View

"64 oz of food space could last me almost a week. But I have unusual diet, eating habits, and consistently have trained my body to a low calorie diet. I should have factored in that difference with others though."

This is the low hanging fruit that most UL backpackers miss when looking for ways to reduce their carried weight and volume. However, one needs to realize that, no matter how well they train their body, simple physics dictates that it takes a certain amount of energy provided by the corresponding number of calories, to move a given weight a given distance; the difference between the calories required and the calories provided by food will be made up by body fat initially and then muscle protein.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does slick Spectra bear bag line deter rodents climbing down it? on 10/22/2013 14:22:12 MDT Print View

Hi Tom,

I don't reduce food to reduce weight/volume in and of itself, its just part of an overall direction that I've moved to in the last couple of years. Nor would I eat like a bird on any kind of extended hike (over a week). I ended up eating a lot when I did the Camino. There is something very different about an extended trip vs a short one food wise, even for me who eats on average around a 1000 calories a day.

I also don't recommend for others to restrict calories when active.

I was just pointing out that not everyone eats X amount of food a day as per some idealized formula.