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California bans lead for all hunting.
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Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
California bans lead for all hunting--Jihawg Ammo! on 10/14/2013 04:15:44 MDT Print View

"There has to be quality to begin with to be redeemed"

Funny you should bring that up, Ken..."quality", or "character", I mean...

Imagine my surprise, after coming home this evening from an overnight backpacking trip (unlike some on here, I actually do get away from the computer), and there was a very rude and nasty note in my in-box from Mr. Ken Thompson. I will not repeat it here, but i'll just say it was not very nice. Evidently, my post about Jihawg ammo cause some people to break out the torches and pitchforks.

That post I made was a partial joke and was half serious. It seems some people on here have absolutely no sense of humor. I can actually see it as a viable alternative to lead bullets. Did you guys think it was a fake, ethnic joke GIF? It's not. It is real, working ammunition. Made by real, working American businessmen.

From the ammo site:

"In the fall of 2010, patriots from Idaho County, Idaho sat around a campfire enjoying an adult beverage. The discussion turned to concern and disgust that a mosque was being built at ground zero. Everyone in attendance agreed that freedom of religion is paramount for all peoples of Earth but this showed poor taste and had a sense of "rubbing our noses" into 9/11 tragedy. The discussion turned toward possible solutions to stop such a great insult.

History of dealings with radical islam from the days of Jefferson and the Barbary Pirates to actions of Gen. John J. "Black Jack" Pershing in the early 1900’s in the Philippines gave clarity to a modern day market solution-Jihawg Ammo. Our preference is peace first but if a fight is to be had we are determined and resolved to win. Thus came the beginning of the truest form of defensive ammunition ever created in history.

A natural deterrent that prevents violence just by owning it but will strike fear into the hearts of those bent upon hate, violence and murder. Jihawg Ammo is certified "Haraam" or unclean. According to the belief system of the radical islamist becoming "unclean" during Jihad will prevent their attaining entrance into heaven. Jihawg Ammo is a natural deterrent to radical and suicidal acts of violence.

Our Porcine Coating (Pattern Pending) is infused with the highest quality pork product made right here in America. Jihawg Ammo is produced in the great state of Idaho.

We at Jihawg Ammo hope you will stock up on Jihawg as a natural deterrent to the ever growing threat of radical islam and sharia law. We, however, stress that the nullifying principle of our product is only effective if you are attacked by an islamist in jihad. Otherwise, our ammo functions just like any other ammunition so we obviously insist upon defensive use of our ammo only-not offensive. "

If it were up to me, EVERY American soldier, airman, sailor and Marine would be issued this ammo! It would be an effective deterrent to the enemy...RADICAL ISLAM...yeah, I said it...RADICAL ISLAM, and it probably would save countless lives. Do you realize exactly what the rules of engagement is for a US Marine in Afghanistan? Do not fire. Period. The official statement is just a tad different, but I can assure you, it's BS. The Taliban shoots to kill and our men and women are not allowed to shoot back unless faced with no other alternative (they always have another alternative and rarely get backed into a corner). Small groups, one or two of the Taliban, will shoot at the Marines, wounding or killing our people and then drop the rifle and run away (or give up and be fed and housed!), because he knows we are not allowed to shoot, especially if he is unarmed or has just dropped his weapon. We are fighting a war, guys. The objective is to win that war. Period. The people we are at war with are radical Muslims. That is a fact. Period. If using "pork flavored bullets" will accomplish the end goal, or even just freak out/cause distress to, our enemy, we should do it.
Instead of being afraid of the might of U.S. firepower, enemy fighters use our rules of engagement and restrictions on air support against us. When faced with a split-second decision of whether to shoot, soldiers and Marines many times must hesitate—or be investigated and/or court martiald. Or, as in the case of the 2009 Battle of Ganjgal, excessive restrictions on air and artillery assets unfortunately meant excessive American deaths. There is a reason most of the US deaths during the Afghan war have occurred since Obama took office in 2008. If we do not allow our military to carry out their locate, close with, and UTTERLY DESTROY the enemy by fire and maneuver, as is the infantry’s goal, and support them with the assets they need, then the next two years will be marked with more American deaths, many more wounded, continued training failures of the ANA and eventual stall in recruitment of Afghan security forces, and a country left in ruins. Here's an about rooting for our side for a change?

One other thing... did I attack any religion? No, I did not. I offered an alternative to lead bullets. If you took the post I made to be anti-Muslim, that was your jump to a political correct conclusion/delusion and you were wrong. I have known many peaceful Muslims, but the fringe element we are at war with in Afghanistan is Muslim, nonetheless. That is fact. I am not surprised that there are some people on here so thin skinned and easily offended, just because someone does not conform to their liberal agendas or world views, but it still saddens me, just the same that they feel the need to personally attack that person or poster. The more I think about it and the politically correct backlash it has inflamed in some members on here, the more I think the topic was just being used as an excuse to assassinate me on the forums because I am a conservative and do not (will not) agree with the heard mentality. Would the reaction have been the same if I had posted a condom filled bullet that explodes when you shoot it into a Catholic church? Some probably would have found that perfectly acceptable. I do not agree with a lot of the things people say on lots of threads, but I refuse to stoop to the level that some have by sending hateful e-mails and trash talking on the forums. I will defend my position, though. I will not bow to political correctness when it violates my values or beliefs, no matter how many e-mails I get. After all, political correctness is just tyranny with manners.

As many of you know from some of my previous posts, my son is currently a US Marine in Afghanistan. Last week, his unit was ambushed and, due to the rules of engagement, this is the result for three of his best friends. Why don't we ask THEM what they think of Jihawg ammo. (not sure if the birds are for the Taliban or our politicians):



PS--A BIG thank you to all the members that sent me positive e-mails of encouragement. I appreciate it very much.

Edited by bigfoot2 on 10/14/2013 05:23:47 MDT.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Always remember, folks on 10/14/2013 07:09:12 MDT Print View

Being openly disgusted by racism makes YOU the racist.

Edited by spelt on 10/14/2013 08:07:06 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: California bans lead for all hunting--Jihawg Ammo! on 10/14/2013 07:57:24 MDT Print View

changed my mind, you're un-redeemable : )

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Now on 10/14/2013 08:20:24 MDT Print View

I think I'm beginning to remember why I quit coming to this site.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Now on 10/14/2013 08:26:42 MDT Print View

"I think I'm beginning to remember why I quit coming to this site."

Because Matt posted racist crap, or because people called him on it?

Dave Stoller
"California bans lead for all hunting." on 10/14/2013 08:52:46 MDT Print View

Matt has a son in uniform is Afghanistan.

The child whose diaper he changed, who he taught to catch and swim and drive and do homework is serving his country and likely in danger almost daily.

As a father I can't even begin to fathom what it must be like to go through that every day.

A lot of posters here may be nonchalant about that and figure he signed up for it and besides it's Bush's fault.

But Matt will catch a LOT of slack from me.

I also don't agree with the practice of sending anything other than supportive PMs or personal emails. If you're supportive, fine. If not post up here for all to see or keep it to yourself. That's what I think.

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Matt on 10/14/2013 09:19:59 MDT Print View


I just returned from my fourth deployment to the middle east (Afghanistan this time), so I'll call you on this, and you go ahead and try to claim the moral high ground because your son is deployed. You were being racist, or at the VERY least pathetically insensitive and ignorant. You saw an opportunity, no matter how thin, to make a jackass anti-muslim comment, and you took it. You cannot claim that you were merely "proposing an alternative to lead bullets." That's being smarmy and disingenuous, and I'm not sure who you think you are kidding. You're also laughably wrong since those bullets are lead core- as I'm quite certain that you know- and only the enamel contains porcine material. Claiming that we're somehow picking on you for this ridiculous off-topic post is yet more proof that you are merely trolling.

I agree with other posters in that I think we all know you, now.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Now on 10/14/2013 10:35:50 MDT Print View

"I think I'm beginning to remember why I quit coming to this site."

While I've no doubt I'm in the minority, I've changed my position on moderation. I sure wish BPL had more moderators, and that they had a heavier hand. I understand Fred's comment completely, this is beginning to be a rather sad place to visit.

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Re: study unreviewed on 10/14/2013 11:13:51 MDT Print View

Not to ruffle anyone's feathers, Michigan requires non-toxic shot for water fowl.

And now, back to the other issue.

Ian B.

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: study unreviewed on 10/14/2013 11:17:44 MDT Print View

Hi Tim,

Have you used it? I had a conversation with one of my buddies about non-toxic shot. He's of the opinion that steel shot is inferior to lead and has less take-down power.

Your thoughts?

Ian B.

Locale: PNW
Moderating this thread on 10/14/2013 11:20:00 MDT Print View

I dropped an F-bomb in one of my responses and in hindsight I regret it as it has no place in this forum. Roger appropriately moderated my response.

My sincere apologies to those I may have offended.

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Re: Re: Re: study unreviewed on 10/14/2013 13:07:48 MDT Print View

This dog can't hunt. I don't have the patience.
I can't sit still for more tha 20 minutes.
Tried fishing but had the same patiece problem.
Foraging probably won't work either. Walking around, bent over, all for a few mushrooms.

Waterfowl requires a dog (I think). I don't want a dog. Finally got the kids out of the house.

I know there is an effort to eliminate lead fishing weights. I doubt it is drive by anti-fishing people.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: California bans Matthew Perry on 10/14/2013 13:35:52 MDT Print View

If only.

My so called nasty message to Matt was one sentence. "You're a disgrace"

Doesn't sound so nasty today. I stand by it. I reported that asinine post too.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: California bans Matthew Perry. on 10/14/2013 13:40:42 MDT Print View

"It seems some people on here have absolutely no sense of humor."

No it just wasn't funny.

I need to go back to ignoring any thread that Matthew has commented in. Always tainted with the same flavor. Bitter.

Caffin's stance doesn't surprise me. Though it too is a disappointment.

Edited by kthompson on 10/14/2013 16:46:33 MDT.

David Olsen

Locale: Steptoe Butte
fishing weights on 10/14/2013 13:48:59 MDT Print View

"I know there is an effort to eliminate lead fishing weights. I doubt it is drive by anti-fishing people."

Fish aren't cuddly enough. They don't have as many defenders.

It is driven by the exact same people as the lead ammo ban. Human Society of the United States is part of it. Several of the same Bird watcher groups. Mostly it goes back to birds, in this case concern for waterfowl, ingesting it. That's why lead sinkers over an ounce are OK. They don't pollute the water, and are too large to swallow.

The big source of heavy metal pollution in fisheries comes from mine tailings, many a century old.

Lake Cour D Alene nearby has one end that grows green with vegetation and the other end (where tailing polluted water enters) is nice and clear. The tailings are an herbicide.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Re: Now on 10/14/2013 14:14:22 MDT Print View

Because Matt posted racist crap, or because people called him on it?

Radical Islam is a race?

But to answer your question, I get fed up with... deleted because ranting won't help anyone but me

David Noll
(dpnoll) - MLife

Locale: Maroon Bells
California bans lead on 10/14/2013 15:33:14 MDT Print View

I am 65 years old and have been hunting for over 50 years. I live in Minnesota and have hunted waterfowl, pheasants and deer extensively. Waterfowl hunting has required non-toxic shot for a long time. The trick is in limiting the distances you shoot at the birds. A lot of pheasant hunting is done on federal and state land which also requires the use of non-toxic shot. Same scenario. In both cases, if you are not willing to compromise on distance, you shouldn't be hunting.
Deer hunting where I live is done with a shotgun and slugs. I shoot a Winchester SX 2 with a rifled barrel and B&L scope. I have been using Remington copper sabots for quite few years and have not noticed a drop-off in accuracy or knockdown power. During that time I have shot well over a dozen deer and none have required a second shot, nor have I ever lost one.
Was lead better for waterfowl and pheasant? Yes! However, by making some changes I am still able to hunt efficiently. Was lead better for deer? For me, no. For you and your style I can't say.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: California bans Matthew Perry. on 10/14/2013 17:14:26 MDT Print View

Can we all, but one, just agree to get back to shredding each other over the ACA and let Mr. Perry continue spewing his toxic drivel in peace?

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: California on 10/14/2013 18:06:28 MDT Print View

ACA is the other thread. This is the ammo thread.

Come on Tom get it together:)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: California bans Matthew Perry. on 10/14/2013 18:51:41 MDT Print View

"and let Mr. Perry continue spewing his toxic drivel in peace?"

I think Fred is joining in with Matt