Forum Index » Chaff » California bans lead for all hunting.


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Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/11/2013 20:44:21 MDT Print View

Thoughts on this?

I don't really have an opinion on this, other than it's very inconvenient.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/11/california-bans-lead-from-hunting-ammunition/2969497/

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/11/2013 21:10:14 MDT Print View

Much better for the water tables and scavenger birds that eat the hunter's leftovers. California might as well just ban guns and be done with it. Glad I don't live there.

Matt

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/11/2013 23:14:46 MDT Print View

in that usatoday link, it says Jerry Brown vetoed some gun regulation bills, like to ban semi-automatic weapons, because he thought it wouldn't prevent any signifcant number of deaths

Us Jerry's agree, although I am sympathetic to people who feel like they have to do something. I'm surprised he would veto it. Politically probably easier just to sign it.

I guess it's okay to move there Matt. Except you probably don't want to pay their taxes.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
California bans lead for all hunting on 10/12/2013 00:37:25 MDT Print View

LOL...most of my guns and high cap mags would land me in jail in Cali. Think i'll stay here, for now.

M

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 01:16:38 MDT Print View

He took a stand, which I can respect, to not infringe upon the rights of gun owners in a way that doesn't make sense for stopping crime instead of voting for any anti-gun legislation that hits the floor regardless of how ridiculous or inconvenient it is out of an irrational hatred of gun owners. Most anti-gun people I've met will blindly support any gun regulation because they don't own guns and don't give a shit about anyone who does.
Banning detachable magazines wouldn't do anything. Internal/fixed magazines load from the top and there are things called stripper clips that will load a fixed magazine just as fast dropping and inserting a new magazine.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 08:01:39 MDT Print View

I don't think people pass gun regulations because they hate gun owners or the constitution

I think that these incidents where innocent people are killed with guns scare people. "There must be something we can do to stop these deaths!" And they don't have a lot of experience with gun owners.

When I encounter people with guns I'm a bit fearful, but actually they've always been friendly enough. I usually makes some joke about not telling them where the deer are and they laugh at my stupid joke : )

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
lead ban on 10/12/2013 10:35:33 MDT Print View

This bill was headed up by the Humane Society of the United States. a Lobbying group that is the 2nd largest in the US and gets some of its money from people who think they are donating to animal shelters, since they use a name similar to the local shelters.

One of their goals is to outlaw hunting, starting with California.

President Wayne Pacelle, “We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States. We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state.”

The threat from lead ammo is extremely overstated. Comparing it to leaded gasoline for example is very disingenuous. Different bio-availabilities.

They are also stretching it when they say alternatives to lead ammo are cheap and safe. Today at Cabela's a box of Barnes copper bullets cost 6 times as much as a lead version for the old 30-30. You will note that Barnes Bullets have been a substantial contributer to some of the bill's backers. Condors are also troubled with copper poisoning. The alternative bullet materials are not without toxicity problems, in fact the Sierra Club of Mass. is suing the Military to clean up after the "green" bullets they used there that promptly leached into the ground water (unlike solid lead) and threatens animals and people with cancer and other problems.

Lead for hunting has already been banned throughout the Condors range with a 98% rate of compliance by hunters. Yet condors are still are getting lead poisoning, possibly from other sources.

This bill will greatly increase the cost of hunting for those that do more than occasional "armed hiking" and likely will help achieve the goals set forth by the HSUS and others involved in the bill of reducing the number of hunters in CA.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
California bans lead for all hunting on 10/12/2013 11:03:50 MDT Print View

Forget lead and other "green" bullets...go with PORK!

http://www.jihawg.com/


j

-----------
Hi all

I have received a couple of complaints about this posting, but I am reluctant to do anything about it. The posting itself is perfectly acceptable. The web site referred to may be otherwise, but it seems to me that is a problem for American society as a whole to deal with. If American society deems the web site legal, then so be it.

Ryan may choose to over-rule me - it's his web site after all. That's fine.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light

Edited by rcaffin on 10/13/2013 23:49:59 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 11:06:46 MDT Print View

All of the lead-free ammo I've used has been garbage. Probably less of an issue for a bolt action rifle but for an auto, I experienced tons of stoppages. This has been with long guns and sidearms.

Hopefully this new demand will bring more manufacturers to the table and deliver a quality ammunition which is truly non-toxic.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 10/12/2013 11:08:02 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: California bans lead for all hunting on 10/12/2013 11:25:00 MDT Print View

ha, ha, ha, Matt

throw in a gratuitous anti Muslim joke : (

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 11:38:55 MDT Print View

Lead is good because of density - 82 on periodic table - that's the heaviest common element

Copper is 29, Iron is 26 - not nearly as heavy so not very good

Tin is 50, fairly common, fairly non-toxic - maybe they should make tin bullets

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
tin on 10/12/2013 11:44:17 MDT Print View

There are 22 long rifle bullets made from tin. Never in stock and several times the price of lead and foul and wear out the barrel faster. Tin makes a nice hardener in lead for cast boolits.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 17:43:05 MDT Print View

"Tin is 50, fairly common, fairly non-toxic - maybe they should make tin bullets"

How about depleted uranium? The military claimed it was non toxic when it was using it in Iraq.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 19:50:32 MDT Print View

What is depleted Uranium, 98?

That is way better than lead, which is why they use it

Plus, then you don't have to worry about how to store the radioactive waste, if you've scattered it around Iraq

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 20:15:14 MDT Print View

"What is depleted Uranium, 98?"

238

"Plus, then you don't have to worry about how to store the radioactive waste, if you've scattered it around Iraq"

Unless you happen to be Iraqi.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 20:24:24 MDT Print View

I knew there was an 8 in there somewhere : )

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 20:59:19 MDT Print View

I'm mixing up my protons and neutrons, it should be:

Uranium - 238
Lead - 208
Gold - 198
Tin - 120
Copper - 63

Uranium isn't that much heavier than lead - someone wasn't thinking very clearly to use that unless they were just trying to get rid of nuclear waste : )

Gold would be good if it wasn't so expensive and rare

Copper is just way too light to be very good for bullets

Tin would be better

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/12/2013 21:12:22 MDT Print View

"Plus, then you don't have to worry about how to store the radioactive waste, if you've scattered it around Iraq"

I KNEW IT! So there are WMD's in Iraq!!!

;)

Matt

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Re: California bans lead for all hunting. on 10/13/2013 10:36:28 MDT Print View

So what about arrows? I didn't know the arrows are made of lead.

Ken Miller
(Powderpiggy) - F

Locale: Colorado
Pretty difficult to enforce on 10/13/2013 10:52:39 MDT Print View

Using non lead bullets on big game will cause many more animals to be wounded.

I am thinking many hunters will have a lead clip or two in their possession.

There's been so much ammunition manufactured and sold in the last 6 years, it will take centuries for it to be consumed.