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park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance?
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Billy Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/09/2013 11:30:23 MDT Print View

Don't go in there

The area around the Grand Canyon is a ghost town. It's no different inside, and park rangers are working to keep it that way, according to The Republic newspaper in Arizona.

Park officials have written about two dozen citations for people trying to sneak into the park. Some have been caught at the canyon's South Rim, others on trials or attempting hikes, the newspaper reported.

Don't recreate

According to the Eagle-Tribune newspaper of North Andover, Massachusetts, tourist Pat Vaillancourt said National Park Service Guards held her tour group under armed guard in a Yellowstone National Park hotel and brusquely told tourists who had filed off their bus to take pictures of bison that they weren't to "recreate."

The tour guide argued to rangers that the tourists -- some of them from overseas -- weren't "recreating," just taking pictures.

"She responded and said, 'Sir, you are recreating,' and her tone became very aggressive," the newspaper quoted Vaillancourt as saying.

A message to the park's media relations office, which is only intermittently staffed because of the furlough, was not immediately returned Wednesday.

Ted Cruz: Democrats' new bogeyman

And stay out!

A Nevada couple said they were kicked out of their home in the Lake Mead National Recreation Area, CNN affiliate KTNV reports.

Retirees Joyce and Ralph Spencer own a cabin on federal land, and were told last week they had 24 hours to clear out and stay out until the government reopens.

Park officials gave KTNV a statement saying overnight stays are not allowed in the park until funding is restored, but said owners can visit their properties to retrieve belongings.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobedience? on 10/09/2013 12:23:43 MDT Print View

So the congressmen still get their pay checks, so does the President, along with Camp David, and Ms. Obama has her projects funded, but the National Parks, severely underfunded to begin with, are closed tight with armed (paid?) rangers keeping tourists, hikers and others from even taking photos?

So ridiculous!


Stop congress' pay checks, along with the President's, make them pay for all their perks, and see how fast this gets solved!

BTW, this should probably be in chaff.

Edited by grampa on 10/09/2013 12:24:24 MDT.

Billy Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
chaff? no trip planning on 10/09/2013 12:28:44 MDT Print View

Chaff? Maybe... but it seems critical information for trip planning...

Bill

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/09/2013 12:34:30 MDT Print View

What about national forests? Are they open or shut down?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/09/2013 12:58:11 MDT Print View

National forests are mainly open

I was just in Shasta Trinity and it was unaffected

Any ranger station or visitor center will be closed, but no rangers to enforce rules so you don't need any permits : )

Adam Rothermich
(aroth87) - F

Locale: Missouri Ozarks
Re: Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/09/2013 12:59:32 MDT Print View

National Forests are open for recreation as far as I'm aware.

Adam

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Re: Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/09/2013 13:06:01 MDT Print View

That's good to hear. I'm going to the trinity alps later this month.
I'm more worried about side roads leading to trail heads being closed.
Probably won't be a problem.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/09/2013 13:10:47 MDT Print View

I just drove to Swift Creek trailhead, no problem.

Got permit at Coffee Creek Ranger Station. There were people out back. I'm just guessing they would have been doing something but were "shut down" so they were just fooling around.

That's a nice area, too bad it's so far away from Portland.

Backpack Jack
(jumpbackjack) - F - M

Locale: Armpit of California
Re: Re: Re: Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/10/2013 08:52:59 MDT Print View

I have a trip planned for tomorrow into the National Forest, Probably won't get a permit, unless there is a self issue station, but this brings up a question.

If there's no one manning the stations/forest, so to speak, do I need a permit, how about a fishing license, or fire permit?, assuming we could have a fire in the Sierra.

This is just another slap in the face to the presidents and all the people before us, that went to all the trouble to secure these Nationl Parks for us to use and enjoy, what a shame.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/10/2013 09:00:13 MDT Print View

fishing and fire are state regulated

normally, at about this time of year, they quit requiring self issue permits in national forest anyway

the only problem would be if they locked a gate

national parks require permits year-round, although when I go to the Olympics, you're supposed to mail it in after you get back, but the evil Jerry on my left shoulder asks why would you do that after the trip? no way they would ever prosecute you

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Evil Malto on 10/10/2013 09:22:40 MDT Print View

Will find a closed section of the AT this weekend to trail run in a show of civil disobedience. I am amazed at the level of stupidity of this whole thing. You go to the wilderness to escape stupidity. Stupidity strikes back.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/14/2013 21:17:46 MDT Print View

I found many national forest roads closed or barricaded. Just a ploy to piss off the public to force compromises in Congress. Just like the states always threaten to cut back on teachers, police, and fire fighters in a budget crunch; instead of the real waste in government spending.

Of course everyone should have their own secret places to stealthily recreate. Just don't post your trip reports or the NSA and drones may go after you ;)

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/14/2013 21:58:51 MDT Print View

I'm not recreating, I'm just sleeping and eating whilst being suspended between two trees.

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F

Locale: Washington, DC Area
Re: Re: Re: park closures... insanity... time for civil disobediance? on 10/16/2013 00:35:27 MDT Print View

Maybe people think national forests are open because no one is there to actively enforce but they are technically closed.

http://www.fs.fed.us/

"all federally owned recreation areas are closed."

Right off the national forest service website.

Edited by mak52580 on 10/16/2013 00:36:28 MDT.

Geoffrey Lehmann
(yipper) - MLife

Locale: deep south
only national forest fee areas are closed on 10/16/2013 06:16:38 MDT Print View

"all federally owned recreation areas are closed."

As a (currently furloughed) Forest Service employee, I can assure you that refers only to "fee areas" and not to national forest property in general. As to what constitutes a "fee area", see:
http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/about-rec-fees.shtml

geoff

Edited by yipper on 10/16/2013 10:38:05 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: only national forest fee areas are closed on 10/16/2013 06:18:09 MDT Print View

Hoping that point of confusion will mean a quiet trip this weekend.

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F

Locale: Washington, DC Area
Re: only national forest fee areas are closed on 10/16/2013 09:23:08 MDT Print View

Sweet. They should probably be a little more clear about it on their site. As it's stated, it is certainly vague and insinuates that all recreation areas are closed. Maybe they did it to try to deter people from going so that there's less risk that things could happen which would require substantial resources that the NFS is unable to adequately provide.

If that's the case, I am looking forward to getting out to Dolly Sods in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully at which point it will be moot since Congress will have decided to do it's job and pass a budget.

Does this also apply to National Parks where you can just pull up to a trailhead and walk in, or put your fee in a box?

Edited by mak52580 on 10/16/2013 09:25:23 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: only national forest fee areas are closed on 10/16/2013 11:39:47 MDT Print View

My favorite "secret" free dispersed camping sites had yellow tape across the road with the "due to the shutdown this area is closed..." Sign posted.

Maybe the USFS employeses didn't get the email from Obama ?

So we drove our new camper to a county park.

Geoffrey Lehmann
(yipper) - MLife

Locale: deep south
closed campground on 10/16/2013 12:11:39 MDT Print View

“Maybe the USFS employeses (sic) didn't get the email from Obama?”

We didn’t get one, and I doubt they or any others did, either. Maybe the folks at that forest have problems with some of the campers in their area...

geoff

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Re: closures... insanity... time to read local newspapers on 10/16/2013 14:28:29 MDT Print View

My nearby NF's are open but their developed campgrounds/interpretative centers are not. I found the exact names of the closed USFS facilities by Googling for the local newspaper since it's the start of hunting season. Figure they exist on squirrel enchiladas, so the rural papers would have that sort of news (though NPR ran a story of a drunk fighting a deer once nationally in the same area)...