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Mark S
(gixer) - F - M
Re: Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 17:46:03 MDT Print View

"Maybe operator error...

Anyone can make anything fail if they try hard enough."


Difficult to see how it could be op error.

He was using a JB stove, with a JB gas cartridge with a JB adaptor under a frying pan that JB list as compatible.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife

Locale: www.hikelighter.com
Re: Jetboil... Ryan Jordan.. Bacon... on 10/14/2013 17:47:30 MDT Print View

I blame it on the bacon!!!

bacon

Edited by JohnAbela on 10/14/2013 17:54:19 MDT.

Daniel N
(DanielN) - M
Re: Re: Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/14/2013 18:15:36 MDT Print View

...

Edited by DanielN on 10/14/2013 18:26:21 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Nobody Screws Dilthey on 10/14/2013 18:43:52 MDT Print View

Is that the problem?

Jetboil. Still needs work.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
more on JB on 10/14/2013 19:07:52 MDT Print View

What I don't get is so many of you have to find ways to pack cumbersome government approved bear canisters in order to backpack, then why on earth would you ever pack something like that jetboil thingy I see at EMS all the time.

So it boils water on less gas, though I've yet to see any proof of that, assume it does because the flame is so enclosed. So you boil water, can you simmer your pasta or rice or goulash with one boil? And what does an enclosed flame mean - from what I've read here it means a much greater likelihood of carbon monoxide, the silent and undetectable killer, being generated.

The whole thing looks like a big marketing scam, the company treats customers like ****, and now it appears it's not even fire safe. Well what did you think would happen when you mixed a hot flame with plastic in one piece of topheavy gear? Good grief.

Edited by scfhome on 10/14/2013 19:15:59 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: more on JB on 10/14/2013 19:12:37 MDT Print View

+1

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: more on JB on 10/14/2013 19:38:20 MDT Print View

I have an idea. Go get the Lockheed Skunk Works to make a Jetboil forged out of one-piece titanium like it did for major portions of the SR-71 Blackbird. Nothing to come apart. No welds to break.

--B.G.--

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Take a classic or two instead on 10/14/2013 19:41:29 MDT Print View

I just love to take a few classic stoves out, heck with something that is fast, it's all about the experience. Nothing like touching off a old MSR G or GK, or even a Optimus 111 or 8/8R. :) What was that? I can't hear you. :)
Duane

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 20:03:19 MDT Print View

3 people with Jetboil issues, probably due to user error.

One case of Jetboil customer service not playing nice.

A growing BPL witch hunt.

....Priceless.



; )

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: more on JB on 10/14/2013 20:07:13 MDT Print View

Roger's article http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_efficiency_p3.html

said that average upright use 11.6 g to heat 1 liter of water

jetboils used 9 g

that's about 20% less

Ti Sol weighs about the same as a stove+pot+windscreen

If you were on a trip where one canister was enough with jetboil, but you required 2 canisters with conventional upright, that would be significant, well, if a canister weighs 7 ounces and you think that's significant, then it would be significant

If one canister is sufficient with conventional upright, then it wouldn't make much difference

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
marketing scam on 10/15/2013 00:43:36 MDT Print View

best "marketing scam" evah ... he uses it in the Himalayas to scam suckers ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87CZL8wq-YQ



interestingly enuff ... as indicated the majority of the talk of failures is with the Ti version ...

http://www.google.ca/#psj=1&q=jetboil+failure&start=0

there doesnt seem to be that many failures of other non Ti jetboils

of course how jetboil deals with the issues also matters

;)

Mark S
(gixer) - F - M
Re: more on JB on 10/15/2013 02:37:17 MDT Print View

"What I don't get is so many of you have to find ways to pack cumbersome government approved bear canisters in order to backpack, then why on earth would you ever pack something like that jetboil thingy I see at EMS all the time.

So it boils water on less gas, though I've yet to see any proof of that, assume it does because the flame is so enclosed. So you boil water, can you simmer your pasta or rice or goulash with one boil? And what does an enclosed flame mean - from what I've read here it means a much greater likelihood of carbon monoxide, the silent and undetectable killer, being generated.

The whole thing looks like a big marketing scam, the company treats customers like ****, and now it appears it's not even fire safe. Well what did you think would happen when you mixed a hot flame with plastic in one piece of topheavy gear? Good grief."

I have several stoves and choose the stove that i feel is the best solution for that trek.
How much fuel it uses or if the flame is hidden is just part of my decision making process.

If you haven't used a JB it is extremely handy when it's working right, i can have it out my pack and be sitting with a cup of boiling water in just over 4 mins.
Several times i am able to be sitting, drinking my cup of tea before my hiking buddy alcohol stove has even started blooming.
No soot, no mess, fast and efficient, when it's working well it really is a great system.

Problem is the Ti version has some fundamental design flaws.


Not really sure the point you're trying to make with regards to CO, maybe you are confused?
ANY fire you have in a poorly ventilated space is a CO poisoning risk, gas burner type stoves are no more or less a risk than say a alcohol or petrol burning stove.

To my mind anyone that cooks inside a tent (i mean inside a closed tent, not under a open bell) no matter what the stove is asking for trouble.


"3 people with Jetboil issues, probably due to user error.

One case of Jetboil customer service not playing nice.

A growing BPL witch hunt.

....Priceless."

A few things

1/ How is your post likely to move the thread along or help anyone?
You have offered no experiences, no advice and no insight, on many of the other forums i visit you'd be considered a troll

2/ You haven't even bothered to check your facts before posting, as there are far more than 3 of the exact same failure by more users

3/ If i have problems with kit and the manf comes good and provides great after sales service i'm the first to sing their praises as often and as loud as i can.
In this case all the manf can be bothered to do is say it was operator error, even though it's a well documented fault on this model, a model that is the top of their range and the most expensive by a fair margin

4/ By your own figures you say it's only 3 people that have had problems if you believe that to be the case that's not much of a which hunt is it ;)

If people stick to the facts and comment only on their experiences with this product then the thread will move on and hopefully JB will man up and admit it's a design problem.
If posters like yourself keep making unsubstantiated claims in a childish attempt to troll up some sort of response then it's not doing anyone any good.

JB should have a read through this thread, try and get together exactly how many of the exact same failure, from complaints they've received and failures they've observed (heat exchanger) on forum posts (JB ARE reading this thread as they pop up on most hiking forums after their name is mentioned), compare that to how many have been sold and go from there.

It will be tough to get a definitive answer as how many folks buy kit and never use it, but still there is no denying the fact that there have been at least several of the exact same failures on this product.
Failures that have not occurred on their cheaper models, that tells me they got it wrong here

Mark S
(gixer) - F - M
Re: more on JB on 10/15/2013 02:37:17 MDT Print View

double post

Edited by gixer on 10/15/2013 02:38:00 MDT.

Andy Stow
(AndyS) - F - M

Locale: Midwest USA
Anyone failed on while following the instructions? on 10/15/2013 07:48:50 MDT Print View

I've read the thread, but maybe I missed it. Has anyone failed a Sol Ti boiling water only? Have the instructions changed?

http://shop.jetboil.com/files/sol-ti-sumo-ti-quickstart-v4.pdf

1) BOILING WATER: For fastest performance, use high heat
when boiling liquid water. Follow normal operating instructions.
Adding non-liquids (soup mix, oatmeal, dehydrated meal, etc.) to
water can result in damage to the cup and fins.
2) DO NOT USE TO MELT SNOW OR ICE: Do not use to
melt snow or ice as improper use may cause the cup to overheat
and fins may be damaged.
3) DO NOT COOK SOUPS OR OTHER FOODS: Sol® TI and
SUMO® TI are ideal for fast and fuel efficient water boiling only.
Do not use for cooking food to avoid potential damage to cooking
cup or FluxRing®.

Seems pretty clear to me. Baked beans, however runny, = not water.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Anyone failed on while following the instructions? on 10/15/2013 08:20:03 MDT Print View

^^^

+1

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: more on JB on 10/15/2013 08:51:13 MDT Print View

So Mark did not use the Ti version as intended and claims, "there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users"

As asked before, how many documented failures? I see three on this thread.

Mark S
(gixer) - F - M
JB defence league on 10/15/2013 10:31:23 MDT Print View

Andy, Greg, Dave

I appreciate the need for clarification, hopefully my answer below helps.
I do have to say though that i find it very strange how people jump into a thread to defend a brand or company when they have shown absolutely no interest before, and the levels they go to defend a brand strikes me as very weird.
I would be grateful if you would declare your loyalties here, do you work for JB, sell JB products?

If not what possible reason could you have to attack my credibility and jump to the defence of a company you have no vested interests in?
Seems very very odd to me and a bit suspicious.

Do you guys even have Sol Ti's?
If not i'm not sure your opinions are relevant as i've clearly stated it's ONLY the Sol Ti product i have experienced problems with, as far as i know every other product in the JB range could be the best in it's class.
I will never find out though due to the extremely poor customer service i have experienced directly.
Have any of the JB defence league actually dealt with JB customer service, had something replaced?
Again if not then your opinions are not really relevant as you have no direct experience with either the product or the "customer service"

Very weird.
As i say i appreciate the opportunity to clarify my points and opinions, i just think some posters are defending a little bit too much.

To clarify on my part:
Those instructions were created on the 30th of March 2012 and edited on April the 9th 2012.
My cup failed on March 27th 2012, so those "new" instructions were of absolutely no use to me.

The previous instructions clearly stated
"DO NOT fry or cook foods with low moisture content. Use low flame...."

As even non watered down beans have a high moisture content i was using the systems as per the instructions.
The fact that JB later changed the instructions again leads me to believe they know full well there is a fundamental design flaw with the product.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
What happened to Ryan Jordan's Jetboil? on 10/15/2013 10:48:42 MDT Print View

Anyone know what happened to Ryan Jordan's Jetboil? See Ryan's Twitter post.


HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 10/15/2013 10:49:32 MDT.

Andy Stow
(AndyS) - F - M

Locale: Midwest USA
Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 11:07:02 MDT Print View

Mark,

I wondered how their instructions had changed, since the current ones are clearly marked "v4." No, I don't work for Jetboil, not do I own one, nor a competing product. I cook with white gas simply because I don't like disposable canisters. Looking at changing to alcohol.

I was not trying to attack you, but honestly wondering whether the product is sound as currently advertised: for boiling only. Someone made an implication earlier in the thread that a breeze could make one side too hot and fail the fins, but I find that unlikely considering that you can boil water in a leaf, or a paper cup, over a campfire.

I'd say that if you used it within the confines of the instructions included when you bought it, they should make it right, unless they actually managed to later communicate to you, "hey, oops, water only," at which point you should have been offered a choice of a refund, replacement with non-Ti version, or keep it and use it for water only.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 11:14:06 MDT Print View

"I would be grateful if you would declare your loyalties here, do you work for JB, sell JB products?"

No.

"If not what possible reason could you have to attack my credibility and jump to the defence of a company you have no vested interests in?"

You are not being attacked. Like any investigation that requires a suitable level of due diligence, I see 3 issues on this thread where the item in question may have been used in a manner that is outside of JB's recommendation. If this is the case, then is this a design flaw or a user flaw? Was it a manufacturing defect specific to these three or a 'batch' that has now been rectified? Remember the NeoAir issues? The pad was redesigned.

"Do you guys even have Sol Ti's?"

Yes and have been using to boil water for the past 3 years. Not cook beans.

"Have any of the JB defence league actually dealt with JB customer service, had something replaced?"

No. Recommendation: if you continue to use terms like JetBoil Fanboys and JB Defence League, your credibility is suspect. What would you have those who use the Ti pot successfully to do? I would hope you would expect them to provide their own experience. Otherwise how can you determine that it is a design flaw?

We need to understand how many of these pots are failing. Is it 1 out of 5, 10, 100,000?