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Bad experience with Jetboil
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Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Jetboil response on 10/11/2013 15:33:28 MDT Print View

Hi All

I followed this up with Jetboil and got a reply. There may be some problems with lines of communication within the company, but a solution would seem to be at hand.
-------
[I wrote]
Dear Sirs

We have had some discussion on our web site about the reliability of
the Jetboil titanium heat exchanger pots, and in particular about the
aluminium fins on them. Some failures have been seen and photographed,
and reported on the web.

Does Jetboil have any official comment about this problem?

We have also had a claim that the Jetboil warranty does not apply in
the EU zone, that there is there is no warranty on any products sold
in the EU. Is this really true?
-------
[Jetboil replied the next day]
Hello Roger!

To help answer your question, our warranty information is found this website link: http://www.jetboil.com/warranty and we support this worldwide including all countries in the EU [my bolding]. Should our product not function properly under normal use, the customer can return it to the place of purchase or contact our distributing partners directly for further action. Our global partners can determine if the problem is a manufacturing defect or damage occurred from accident/misuse and allow next steps taken for repair or replacement options.

In regards to the forum discussion that is taking place, without our detailed review of the damaged item in question it is hard to provide feedback. From our experience, things do not just melt and there is usually more to the background story and what might have taken place in the field. If the customer wants to contact me directly, you are more than welcome to pass my details below for their use so we can answer their questions and review the product in question.

Please give me a call anytime.

name and contact details removed per Jetboil request
International Sales Manager
Jetboil Inc.
www.jetboil.com
---------

This does not address the question of whether the fins should melt, but at least it offers the original poster some help.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 10/14/2013 13:30:39 MDT.

Valerie E
(Wildtowner) - M

Locale: Grand Canyon State
How Kind! on 10/11/2013 16:38:55 MDT Print View

Roger, how kind of you to have followed up with JetBoil! Consider your "good deed of the day" done! ;~)

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/11/2013 16:42:58 MDT Print View

Greg23,

I was warming up a tin of Heinz baked beans, the burner was on it's lowest setting to the point where i had to restart it 3 times.
I was continually stirring with a long spoon.

As i added some cut up sausages into the beans and wanted them cooked well i also added a fair amount of water to the beans.

To give a rough idea of the consistency, i needed a spoon to eat them rather than a fork.

I had read about the previous fin failures after i'd purchased this one, so knew to be very careful, i just figured that a tin of baked beans with water added would be fine, especially as i was boiling them rather than cooking them.

Problem as i see it is

1/ Ti does not conduct heat as well as aluminium, add to this an extremely thin wall and hotspots are a foregone conclusion

2/ The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water.

All these are ok, problems occur, designs need to be "adjusted"
My biggest problem was the way JB dealt with it and are continuing to "deal with it" i.e. blame the end user.

They were happy to have me return the cup so they could check it until......
"What we would be able to do for you is issue you a return authorization number so that you can send the system in for evaluation. Our warranty department will determine whether it will fall under warranty or if repairs would need to be paid for. We will contact you prior to completing any kind of repairs/replacement as to discuss this with you. "

...i told them i was in Europe.

"I didn’t realize you were not in the USA. You would need to contact the place from which you purchased it; considering the damage to the cup and the details provided this wouldn’t be a warrantied item. The item you will need in order to replace your cup is ccp080-ti, it is the Titanium companion cup. I will attach the quickstart guide and instruction sheet for you that describes proper use and care as this is a premium cooking system and requires special care and attention."

So i need to contact a ebay trader in Germany that doesn't speak English to try and find a way of returning it to him, this when JB have main offices.

Seems to me that pretty much says that there is no warranty on their products in Europe, your only option is to return it to the seller.


Shockingly bad service for such an expensive piece of equipment.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/11/2013 16:43:10 MDT Print View

I'm still tuning in to see how (or if) this gets resolved by Jetboil. The Jetboil SolTi is on my short list. I used to consider it too bulky, but the efficiency of that stove for boiling water (which is pretty much all I do on the trail, my meals are freeze dried) seems to be unbeatable. But if they are a crappy company to deal with, then I won't support them with my dollars, and will just stick with my Pocket Rocket.

Steve G
(sgrobben)

Locale: Ohio
Re: Jetboil response on 10/11/2013 16:45:06 MDT Print View

Strange that their warranty does not mention that sending in a product for warranty evaluation is somehow considered transferring ownership and allows them to keep it.

jeffrey armbruster
(book) - M

Locale: Northern California
Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/11/2013 16:49:05 MDT Print View

Dena, I'm sure that you know about this already, but the efficiency of my pocket rocket has almost doubled since I started using a titanium windscreen. Boils faster, uses way less fuel. Not bulky like a jet-boil!

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/11/2013 16:49:38 MDT Print View

Mark,
Thanks for the info. It helps to have the details.

" The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water."

Well, guess it's time to add some water and 10,000 BTUs.
If this bad boy is going to fail, it's going to happen here at home.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/11/2013 16:54:34 MDT Print View

"Not bulky like a jet-boil!"

With my Ti, everything including the canister fits inside the pot. It is no more bulky than the PR with an MSR Kettle.

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/12/2013 02:06:42 MDT Print View

"Mark,
Thanks for the info. It helps to have the details.

" The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water."

Well, guess it's time to add some water and 10,000 BTUs.
If this bad boy is going to fail, it's going to happen here at home."


If the fins are well attached to the cup then they should transfer the heat, problem is the welds on the fins is not good at all.
So you have 2 possible failure scenario's

1/ The cup gets banged about like normal with a backpacking stove the fins become detached.
This is unlikely but still over time the welds will get weaker so i'm of the opinion that these cups are not going to last 3 years worth of backpacking use.

2/ On high heat or the heat being increased by say a side wind the welds WILL melt if the contents of the cup is hot.
With aluminium this is not so much as a worry as the heat spreads around the cup more efficiently.
With Ti though and thin walled Ti especially the heat does not transfer through the cup well, you can have a scorching hot bottom of the cup but the side be ambient cold.
This focused heat, together with aluminium fins a alloy with very low melting temps as is, it's not difficult to have enough heat at the top of the fins that it weakens the weld (might even be glue on my newer version), once this weld/glue breaks the fins have lost a majority of their heat sink ability, they'll then just melt.

My theory is this is exactly what happened on my cup,
I suspect the fins were not attached well at the start and by heating my beans up it melted the rest of the weld, the heat sink then dropped away from the cup and melted in a ball of mess.

I have a few other "heat exchanger" type pots, ETA power, Crux etc and i have absolutely no worry about melting the heat exchangers on these, i've also boiled beans and even made scrambled eggs in them without any problems.

The SolTi cup is a fundamentally flawed design, there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users.
Yet instead of taking responsibility and doing something about it JB are blaming the users instead.

We are not talking about a fragile watch or piece of machinery here, we are talking about a cup designed for backpacking, it SHOULD by design be bombproof.

I understand that some fanboys roll their eyes and say "it's jet BOIL" so any other use is outside it's design remit, i'm of the opinion though that a tin of watered down sloppy baked beans needs to be boiled to cook.
For a backpacking stove to continuously fail by cooking something that has slightly more consistency than water is unacceptable.
It's like a backpack that is rated at 30kg but fails at 31kg, or a tent that is rated for dry use that fails when you wipe it down with a damp rag.

I'd suggest to JB that they carry out a "beans test" on future products, if a stove/cup can't boil beans without failing then it's not much use as a backpacking stove IMO

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Above contact on 10/13/2013 10:45:35 MDT Print View

Have you called the contact that Roger posted?

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Above contact on 10/13/2013 14:09:02 MDT Print View

Do you mean me Larry?

If so my cup failed over a year ago, i ended up buying a replacement cup.
Thought about selling the Sol Ti on, but to be honest i couldn't in good conscience sell on something i know will fail again.
So i keep it in my car in the emergency kit, even then it's only kept as a back up to my main stove.
That's how much faith i have in the product

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Re: Re: Above contact on 10/14/2013 10:43:57 MDT Print View

"Do you mean me Larry?"

No, I meant the OP. But, I confess to getting the two of you confused...

Edited by Hitech on 10/14/2013 16:15:29 MDT.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/14/2013 15:57:06 MDT Print View

It should be noted that the cup in the photograph on page 2 is a Gen1 cup and not a Gen2 cup.



(edited: fact correction)

Edited by JohnAbela on 10/14/2013 16:11:27 MDT.

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/14/2013 16:09:23 MDT Print View

"The photograph displayed on page 2 is mine. I authorized used to adventuresinstoving for use within his article. It should be noted that the cup in the photograph was a Gen1 cup and not a Gen2 cup.


Hi John,

Are you referring to this pic?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/cbr6fs/IMAG0264.jpg

If so i'm afraid you are mistaken, that is a pic i took myself of my damaged cup.

Thank you for linking to the differences in various cups though, i was not aware there were differences.
My failed cup was/is indeed a Gen1, unfortunately after checking it seems the replacement i purchased is also a Gen1.
I hold even less hope for it now :(

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/14/2013 16:09:49 MDT Print View

"there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users"

Does 'many many' mean a 'few' or just a 'couple?' Or perhaps 'some' or maybe 'a ton?'

Just trying to add some scientific context here for the 'Fanboys.'

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/14/2013 16:49:33 MDT Print View

A couple of things:
1. Ti Jetboils have had some problems. What percentage, I don't know, but I did document the problem on my blog some time ago: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- Caution

2. In an article I wrote, I found that the difference between a Ti Jetboil Sol and an Al Jetboil Sol was approximately 1 ounce. See the side-by-side comparison toward the end of the article for a detailed break out. Note: Jetboil looks like they've subsequently redesigned the Aluminum version. The redesigned version looks heavier than the first Al Sol.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 10/14/2013 16:53:21 MDT.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 16:53:23 MDT Print View

Ryan Jordan's just failed.

https://twitter.com/bigskyry/status/389257842458251264/photo/1

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 16:59:30 MDT Print View

Easy way to prevent the orange thingie from melting is to just remove the stupid thing.

http://hikelighter.com/2013/05/22/jetboil-sol-ti/

Reference 'Overall System Weight' section and photos at bottom of article.

Edited by JohnAbela on 10/14/2013 17:08:14 MDT.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 17:26:30 MDT Print View

"Ryan Jordan's just failed."


Ryan Jordan ‏@bigskyry 13 Oct:
"...Maybe insufficient heat dissipation using the combo of the add-on pot support and a fry pan."


Maybe operator error...

Anyone can make anything fail if they try hard enough.

James Klein
(jnklein21) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 17:42:11 MDT Print View

Fwiw, The frying pan is listed as a compatable product on jb's Webpage for the ti Sol.

Edited by jnklein21 on 10/14/2013 17:44:10 MDT.