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K C
(KalebC) - F

Locale: South West
Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/08/2013 20:54:44 MDT Print View

I have had a very bad experience with Jetboil.
I recently took my Jetboil Sumo Titanium cooking system on a trip this summer to AK.

During the trip I noticed that one of fins on the fluxring had come unbonded, I have 15 years backpacking experience and I did not misuse it, boil it empty overheat it.

I emailed Jetboil and got an RA number, I did make the mistake of not reading through the entire email and just got the RA number and sent it in. I got an email back stating that they were not going to cover it under warranty due to mis-use/neglect. They said the cup was either burned dry or boiled empty.

They kept my Titanium Sumo cup and offered me a coupon to buy another one for $75.39

So I spent $7.00 to send in a $189.95 product back for repair/replacement and ended up with nothing.....

BPL community beware!

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Nobody Screws Dilthey on 10/08/2013 20:57:16 MDT Print View

These posts always crush me. You guys need to learn how to argue over the phone!

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/08/2013 21:01:24 MDT Print View

"So I spent $7.00 to send in a $189.95 product back for repair/replacement and ended up with nothing....."

1. Nothing? They offered you a coupon. If nothing else, you got an education.
2. Always remember to read the fine print.

--B.G.--

Serge G.
(sgiachetti) - M

Locale: Boulder, CO
good customer service on 10/08/2013 21:11:10 MDT Print View

Jetboil went out of there way to help me with an issue I had with my stove. The replaced it for free, with the updated version. Then when my old pot didn't lock with the new stove, they quickly replaced my pot at no charge. Flawless customer service.

I think we should question our expectations about customer service before we get online and bash a company in an online forum. I've seen too many posts lately where I just fail to see the issue thats been brought up. Sorry, but thats how I see it. How is $75 of credit 'nothing'?

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: good customer service on 10/08/2013 21:15:39 MDT Print View

Serge,

Was it an aluminum or titanium pot? There have been more than a few reports which have mirrored the OP's experience.

K C
(KalebC) - F

Locale: South West
RE: on 10/08/2013 21:17:06 MDT Print View

They did not credit me anything, they gave me ZERO for keeping my cup. They offered me to buy a replacement (an aluminum version cup) for $75 out of my pocket. No thanks, I agree with Bob, it was a $200 education lesson to read the fine print and never buy from Jetboil again.

Edited by KalebC on 10/08/2013 22:19:37 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/08/2013 21:19:34 MDT Print View

Not the first time: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=65172

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: RE: on 10/08/2013 21:33:01 MDT Print View

Call them again and say what you're saying here.

That you expect a replacement.

What do you think of their claim that you boiled it dry and that caused the problem? Would this cause the failure? Did you do it? Were the instructions clear you should avoid this?

Serge G.
(sgiachetti) - M

Locale: Boulder, CO
fair enough on 10/08/2013 21:58:02 MDT Print View

fair enough, if this seems to be a reoccurring problem. I though they were crediting you, not offering you a discount. I was just surprised, since they replaced my stove upon inspection, and gladly replaced the ti pot when it wouldn't screw on to the new stove. hmmm...I still like jetboil, but there's always the reactor.

David W.
(Davidpcvsamoa) - MLife

Locale: East Bay, CA
Satisfaction on 10/08/2013 22:34:51 MDT Print View

+1 to Jerry's comment.

Restate was you said here and ask them what they can do to fix the situation. If you expect a replacement, tell them. Be polite but persistent.

My nature is to generally avoid confrontation but sometimes its necessary for a satisfactory outcome.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/08/2013 23:00:38 MDT Print View

Ask for a replacement of the item or the return of your property or you will file a complaint with your state Attorney General. I went through a similar process with Eagle Creek luggage.

If there are that many failed pots, there may be some product safety issues that should be raised. That should make them wet their legal pants :)

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
companies on 10/08/2013 23:20:03 MDT Print View

gear does fail ... sometime through use, other times theres just a bad batch, and other times theres a design flaw

the problem IMO is that some companies just take a default position of telling the customer its their fault, and then giving them a discount on a replacement ... which really doesnt cost them anything as their cost price is likely below that

how a company deals with these issues is a reflection of their confidence in the quality of their products ... even companies that dont have explicit no questions guarantees will generally take care of you (patagucci anyone?) if they are willing to back up all the marketing propaganda about their product being the "best"

or simply buy through MEC ... this is something they would cover no questions asked ...

;)

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Go with MSR on 10/09/2013 09:00:42 MDT Print View

At least MSR will stand behind their stuff. Never any issues with parts or replacement.
Duane

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Go with MSR on 10/09/2013 09:28:58 MDT Print View

Nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/09/2013 09:30:07 MST.

Alex Wallace
(FeetFirst) - F

Locale: Northern California
replacement? on 10/09/2013 11:04:26 MDT Print View

What are you going to replace the Jetboil with? Maybe you can give the soon to be released Primus Eta Lite PCS a try.

J R
(JRinGeorgia) - F
JetBoil on 10/09/2013 20:03:14 MDT Print View

Regardless of the reason for the product failure, at a minimum they owe you back your own property with you paying shipping. I'm not saying that is the fair or proper resolution, just that it's the absolute minimum they should offer, which in effect isn't offering anything.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Reactor = MSR on 10/09/2013 20:52:14 MDT Print View

Jetboil is by Jetboil. MSR was slow developing a viable stove, so was late to the game. Jetboil has numerous models, so that helps them also. MSR only has two models similar in technology like JB that I know of. I understand though that the MSR stove is more wind resistant. I have yet to get either, sticking to my vintage stoves for the atmosphere and cool factor. 90+ stoves.
Duane

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
bad Xp on 10/09/2013 20:53:30 MDT Print View

Kaleb,
BPL community already bewares.
The regular advice here is to buy this kind of gear only from retailers who will accept a return if the product fails.
Those who criticized you are just blaming the victim. You have a right to be who you are, and that may not be a litigious sole like me.

On another note, it would be nice to see an article here about comparative boiling times and other pros and cons of these Jetboil type sets vs the much smaller and lighter canister stoves.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
re on 10/09/2013 20:54:36 MDT Print View

This is why I will never own a jet boil. There are much more reliable options out there, esbit for me.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: bad Xp on 10/09/2013 20:58:02 MDT Print View

I don't care about boil time, I just care about efficiency - oz of fuel to boil a pint of water.

The newest Ti version of Jetboil weighs about the same as any other canister stove + pot + windscreen. And it should be a little more efficient.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Reliable on 10/09/2013 21:34:19 MDT Print View

The old jetboil pcs is utterly and totally reliable IME

The new fancy titanium ones??? Who knows ... The extra 1-2 oz lighter is nice i guess, but i like a bit more durability

Ive cooked everything from canned chilli to thick beef chunks frying pan style in mine

Still it never hurts to buy from somewhere like mec with an unlimited warranty

;)

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Reliable on 10/09/2013 22:36:27 MDT Print View

I like the almost 8 oz savings over the original versions with my Ti version. Over the past 2.5 years it has been stone reliable. Knock on wood.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Reliable on 10/10/2013 00:09:10 MDT Print View

ahhh ... but how much do you save over the AL SOL version ...

which interestingly enough doesnt seem to have the warning about only boiling water in it on the website

;)

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/10/2013 10:59:13 MDT Print View

Don't start me off about Jetboil, terrible terrible company, i'd never buy another jetboil product as long as i live.

Been fortunate enough to dissuade several others from purchasing their products so far.

Used my Ti pot to cook some very very sloppy baked beans, figured they were more fluid than solid so they'd be fine.
Ended up with this

[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/cbr6fs/IMAG0264.jpg[/IMG]

Sad thing is, because of the design it's extremely difficult to keep an eye on the fins AND stir, plus because it sits so snug by the time you do notice it's too late.

Contacted JB as after i search i'd found several others had exactly the same problem, many of which were able to get a replacement.
Received a quick reply and was told to return the cup, i asked if there was a European dealer than i could send it to as i'm in Greece and was told that there is no warranty on any products sold in the EU.

So it's a company that knows 100% there is a fundamental design flaw with one of it's products, replaces some units, ignores others, then rights off any sales outside the USA as they refuse to warranty them.

I strongly urge any member wanting a stove to look elsewhere, there are companies out there that are more than happy to take your money and WILL look after you if you have problems with their products.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Reliable on 10/10/2013 11:42:55 MDT Print View

"ahhh ... but how much do you save over the AL SOL version ..."

Don't care, I got a Pro Deal.

Next.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/10/2013 11:44:43 MDT Print View

Jet Boil...vs...Jet Cook.

Did you boil over?

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/10/2013 11:50:18 MDT Print View

image from Mark S., above -

JetBoilMetled


So, How did this happen? You didn't stir, the liquid at the bottom boiled off, and the bottom of the cup overheated?

Are those fins aluminum?


Just asking, not dissen'

Edited by greg23 on 10/10/2013 11:59:54 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Reliable on 10/10/2013 11:56:57 MDT Print View

"ahhh ... but how much do you save over the AL SOL version ..."

Don't care, I got a Pro Deal.

Next.


how much WEIGHT do you save over the AL SOL version

should be comparing apples to apples on what is sold now, not against the 1st gen much older jetboil mr ure

;)

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reliable on 10/10/2013 12:00:47 MDT Print View

Eric said: "The old jetboil pcs is utterly and totally reliable IME

The new fancy titanium ones??? Who knows ... The extra 1-2 oz lighter is nice i guess, but i like a bit more durability"


And then said "how much WEIGHT do you save over the AL SOL version

should be comparing apples to apples on what is sold now, not against the 1st gen much older jetboil mr ure"

-----
abuse deleted.
-----

Edited by rcaffin on 10/23/2013 14:36:16 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reliable on 10/10/2013 12:07:35 MDT Print View

You little Troll, you.

first of all its a relevant question as you brough up the "8 oz" savings ...

second of all its a relevant question as we havent hear alot about the AL SOL version failing the same way, nor does jetboil warn that the AL version is only for water

lastly you seem to resort to "flaming' and "trolling" when you cant answer a simple question

i suggest we take this "trolling" to PM and not continue with it further on this thread

;)

Christopher *
(cfrey.0) - M

Locale: US East Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reliable on 10/10/2013 14:21:44 MDT Print View

We get it.

The feelings the two of you have developed for one another are new and confusing and frightening.

The heathy and responsible action is to stop derailing public threads and keep your affair a private matter.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Jetboils on 10/10/2013 19:18:13 MDT Print View

"I don't care about boil time, I just care about efficiency - oz of fuel to boil a pint of water."

You are right, Jerry. And that's what it would be nice to have an article about.
Plus comparative weights.

Thanks.

P.S. I want to see Family Guy and Bearbreeder square off on Wrestle Mania.

K C
(KalebC) - F

Locale: South West
Called Jetboil this morning on 10/10/2013 20:12:19 MDT Print View

I called this morning and spoke to the same person I did the other two times, she gave me the runaround and got nowhere. I told her that it was not fair that they kept my titanium cup and I expected a replacement or my cup back, she took down my number and told me that another person would call me to explain their policies.........

I sent back the Sumo Ti cup in late August and still have nothing..... I'll keep you posted.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Called Jetboil this morning on 10/10/2013 21:25:38 MDT Print View

Sometimes you can just wear them out if you keep calling them.

Maybe you'll get someone else one time and get a different response.

Don't be angry, just state the facts and tell them you want a replacement.

Tell her you're not satisfied with her response and ask to talk to her supervisor.

Tell her you're discussing this on this website, a lot of satisfied people, a lot of unsatisfied, a lot thinking about what to buy.

etc....

James Couch
(JBC) - M

Locale: Cascade Mountains
Try this. on 10/10/2013 21:33:26 MDT Print View

You don't want to talk to the same person, they obviously are not in a position to solve your problem. Here is how I would go about this.

first, don't wait for the call back, you have already waited long enough. Call again. No matter who you get, clearly state what you want/expect of them. For example, I would like to either get a replacement cup or my old cup back. Ask them if they are the person able to give you a yes on this, be polite but firm. Tell them if they are unable to give you a yes answer you would like to speak to the person who can give you a yes or their supervisor. Keep this process up until you get a yes or hit the top.

If you get the runaround, let the person you are talking to know that your plan is to then start with the CEO of Johnson Outdoors (who now own JetBoil.) BTW, the late founder of Johnson Outdoors, Samuel C. Johnson's (Sam)overriding principle was “Do the right thing” I believe the current CEO is still Helen Johnson-Leipold. The business is still family run.

I have had great success using this system both as a consumer and as a retailer.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: Try this. on 10/10/2013 21:36:25 MDT Print View

That is excellent advice, Jim!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Called Jetboil this morning on 10/10/2013 21:47:37 MDT Print View

Hi Kaleb

> I told her that it was not fair that they kept my titanium cup and I expected a
> replacement or my cup back,

You do know that what has happened here is actually theft?

The cup IS your property, and Jetboil has taken it from you and kept it. I believe you can file a complaint with the appropriate government department about this which could lead to a prosecution. Someone else can tell you which gov't dept is the right one. (Good luck finding staff there for the next week or two, but the principle stands.)

I suggest you get the name of the gov't dept and then contact Jetboil. Tell them you will be filing a legal claim if the cup or a replacement is not returned within (say) 4 days. You could also contact Johnson (the parent company) and notify them.

Cheers

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/10/2013 22:06:52 MDT Print View

Also, you want to go re-read the fine print in the original Return Authorization. If the company has that well-written, you may not be able to claim very much. If the company is really reputable, then they may take care of your claim, at least to the point of returning your damaged part.

--B.G.--

Jeffrey Wong
(kayak4water) - MLife

Locale: Pacific NW
Small Claims court on 10/11/2013 00:02:37 MDT Print View

KC,

Roger has the right idea on your JB.

Don't forget small claims court, where you can get a judgment in your favor just by the defendant not showing up.

That said, if you can't take a corporation to small claims court, maybe the state can be your heavy, as Roger suggests.

It seems that this is more about the principle than the money now, because in the big scheme of things, that is, your life, $200 really isn't much. It's not even a month's worth cigarettes to a pack-a-day smoker. Make them get on their knees!

Cheers.

from a user of:
1. Cat alcohol stove
2. Snow Peak giga power
3. Svea 123

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
return authorization on 10/11/2013 10:36:50 MDT Print View

Just because they put something in writing in the RA and state that by returning it you agree to abide by it doesn't make it enforceable. You can't sign away your rights. I cannot tell you what is or is not enforceable, but I would not believe they can keep it regardless of what is in the RA. I would agree with Roger that it is theft.

Edited by Hitech on 10/11/2013 14:38:01 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Jetboil response on 10/11/2013 15:33:28 MDT Print View

Hi All

I followed this up with Jetboil and got a reply. There may be some problems with lines of communication within the company, but a solution would seem to be at hand.
-------
[I wrote]
Dear Sirs

We have had some discussion on our web site about the reliability of
the Jetboil titanium heat exchanger pots, and in particular about the
aluminium fins on them. Some failures have been seen and photographed,
and reported on the web.

Does Jetboil have any official comment about this problem?

We have also had a claim that the Jetboil warranty does not apply in
the EU zone, that there is there is no warranty on any products sold
in the EU. Is this really true?
-------
[Jetboil replied the next day]
Hello Roger!

To help answer your question, our warranty information is found this website link: http://www.jetboil.com/warranty and we support this worldwide including all countries in the EU [my bolding]. Should our product not function properly under normal use, the customer can return it to the place of purchase or contact our distributing partners directly for further action. Our global partners can determine if the problem is a manufacturing defect or damage occurred from accident/misuse and allow next steps taken for repair or replacement options.

In regards to the forum discussion that is taking place, without our detailed review of the damaged item in question it is hard to provide feedback. From our experience, things do not just melt and there is usually more to the background story and what might have taken place in the field. If the customer wants to contact me directly, you are more than welcome to pass my details below for their use so we can answer their questions and review the product in question.

Please give me a call anytime.

name and contact details removed per Jetboil request
International Sales Manager
Jetboil Inc.
www.jetboil.com
---------

This does not address the question of whether the fins should melt, but at least it offers the original poster some help.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 10/14/2013 13:30:39 MDT.

Valerie E
(Wildtowner) - M

Locale: Grand Canyon State
How Kind! on 10/11/2013 16:38:55 MDT Print View

Roger, how kind of you to have followed up with JetBoil! Consider your "good deed of the day" done! ;~)

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/11/2013 16:42:58 MDT Print View

Greg23,

I was warming up a tin of Heinz baked beans, the burner was on it's lowest setting to the point where i had to restart it 3 times.
I was continually stirring with a long spoon.

As i added some cut up sausages into the beans and wanted them cooked well i also added a fair amount of water to the beans.

To give a rough idea of the consistency, i needed a spoon to eat them rather than a fork.

I had read about the previous fin failures after i'd purchased this one, so knew to be very careful, i just figured that a tin of baked beans with water added would be fine, especially as i was boiling them rather than cooking them.

Problem as i see it is

1/ Ti does not conduct heat as well as aluminium, add to this an extremely thin wall and hotspots are a foregone conclusion

2/ The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water.

All these are ok, problems occur, designs need to be "adjusted"
My biggest problem was the way JB dealt with it and are continuing to "deal with it" i.e. blame the end user.

They were happy to have me return the cup so they could check it until......
"What we would be able to do for you is issue you a return authorization number so that you can send the system in for evaluation. Our warranty department will determine whether it will fall under warranty or if repairs would need to be paid for. We will contact you prior to completing any kind of repairs/replacement as to discuss this with you. "

...i told them i was in Europe.

"I didn’t realize you were not in the USA. You would need to contact the place from which you purchased it; considering the damage to the cup and the details provided this wouldn’t be a warrantied item. The item you will need in order to replace your cup is ccp080-ti, it is the Titanium companion cup. I will attach the quickstart guide and instruction sheet for you that describes proper use and care as this is a premium cooking system and requires special care and attention."

So i need to contact a ebay trader in Germany that doesn't speak English to try and find a way of returning it to him, this when JB have main offices.

Seems to me that pretty much says that there is no warranty on their products in Europe, your only option is to return it to the seller.


Shockingly bad service for such an expensive piece of equipment.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/11/2013 16:43:10 MDT Print View

I'm still tuning in to see how (or if) this gets resolved by Jetboil. The Jetboil SolTi is on my short list. I used to consider it too bulky, but the efficiency of that stove for boiling water (which is pretty much all I do on the trail, my meals are freeze dried) seems to be unbeatable. But if they are a crappy company to deal with, then I won't support them with my dollars, and will just stick with my Pocket Rocket.

Steve G
(sgrobben) - M

Locale: Ohio
Re: Jetboil response on 10/11/2013 16:45:06 MDT Print View

Strange that their warranty does not mention that sending in a product for warranty evaluation is somehow considered transferring ownership and allows them to keep it.

jeffrey armbruster
(book) - M

Locale: Northern California
Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/11/2013 16:49:05 MDT Print View

Dena, I'm sure that you know about this already, but the efficiency of my pocket rocket has almost doubled since I started using a titanium windscreen. Boils faster, uses way less fuel. Not bulky like a jet-boil!

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/11/2013 16:49:38 MDT Print View

Mark,
Thanks for the info. It helps to have the details.

" The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water."

Well, guess it's time to add some water and 10,000 BTUs.
If this bad boy is going to fail, it's going to happen here at home.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/11/2013 16:54:34 MDT Print View

"Not bulky like a jet-boil!"

With my Ti, everything including the canister fits inside the pot. It is no more bulky than the PR with an MSR Kettle.

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/12/2013 02:06:42 MDT Print View

"Mark,
Thanks for the info. It helps to have the details.

" The fins are aluminium and are wayyyyy to thin, i've heard reports that have had the fins melt even when boiling water."

Well, guess it's time to add some water and 10,000 BTUs.
If this bad boy is going to fail, it's going to happen here at home."


If the fins are well attached to the cup then they should transfer the heat, problem is the welds on the fins is not good at all.
So you have 2 possible failure scenario's

1/ The cup gets banged about like normal with a backpacking stove the fins become detached.
This is unlikely but still over time the welds will get weaker so i'm of the opinion that these cups are not going to last 3 years worth of backpacking use.

2/ On high heat or the heat being increased by say a side wind the welds WILL melt if the contents of the cup is hot.
With aluminium this is not so much as a worry as the heat spreads around the cup more efficiently.
With Ti though and thin walled Ti especially the heat does not transfer through the cup well, you can have a scorching hot bottom of the cup but the side be ambient cold.
This focused heat, together with aluminium fins a alloy with very low melting temps as is, it's not difficult to have enough heat at the top of the fins that it weakens the weld (might even be glue on my newer version), once this weld/glue breaks the fins have lost a majority of their heat sink ability, they'll then just melt.

My theory is this is exactly what happened on my cup,
I suspect the fins were not attached well at the start and by heating my beans up it melted the rest of the weld, the heat sink then dropped away from the cup and melted in a ball of mess.

I have a few other "heat exchanger" type pots, ETA power, Crux etc and i have absolutely no worry about melting the heat exchangers on these, i've also boiled beans and even made scrambled eggs in them without any problems.

The SolTi cup is a fundamentally flawed design, there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users.
Yet instead of taking responsibility and doing something about it JB are blaming the users instead.

We are not talking about a fragile watch or piece of machinery here, we are talking about a cup designed for backpacking, it SHOULD by design be bombproof.

I understand that some fanboys roll their eyes and say "it's jet BOIL" so any other use is outside it's design remit, i'm of the opinion though that a tin of watered down sloppy baked beans needs to be boiled to cook.
For a backpacking stove to continuously fail by cooking something that has slightly more consistency than water is unacceptable.
It's like a backpack that is rated at 30kg but fails at 31kg, or a tent that is rated for dry use that fails when you wipe it down with a damp rag.

I'd suggest to JB that they carry out a "beans test" on future products, if a stove/cup can't boil beans without failing then it's not much use as a backpacking stove IMO

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Above contact on 10/13/2013 10:45:35 MDT Print View

Have you called the contact that Roger posted?

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Above contact on 10/13/2013 14:09:02 MDT Print View

Do you mean me Larry?

If so my cup failed over a year ago, i ended up buying a replacement cup.
Thought about selling the Sol Ti on, but to be honest i couldn't in good conscience sell on something i know will fail again.
So i keep it in my car in the emergency kit, even then it's only kept as a back up to my main stove.
That's how much faith i have in the product

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Re: Re: Above contact on 10/14/2013 10:43:57 MDT Print View

"Do you mean me Larry?"

No, I meant the OP. But, I confess to getting the two of you confused...

Edited by Hitech on 10/14/2013 16:15:29 MDT.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/14/2013 15:57:06 MDT Print View

It should be noted that the cup in the photograph on page 2 is a Gen1 cup and not a Gen2 cup.



(edited: fact correction)

Edited by JohnAbela on 10/14/2013 16:11:27 MDT.

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/14/2013 16:09:23 MDT Print View

"The photograph displayed on page 2 is mine. I authorized used to adventuresinstoving for use within his article. It should be noted that the cup in the photograph was a Gen1 cup and not a Gen2 cup.


Hi John,

Are you referring to this pic?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/cbr6fs/IMAG0264.jpg

If so i'm afraid you are mistaken, that is a pic i took myself of my damaged cup.

Thank you for linking to the differences in various cups though, i was not aware there were differences.
My failed cup was/is indeed a Gen1, unfortunately after checking it seems the replacement i purchased is also a Gen1.
I hold even less hope for it now :(

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't start me off about Jetboil on 10/14/2013 16:09:49 MDT Print View

"there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users"

Does 'many many' mean a 'few' or just a 'couple?' Or perhaps 'some' or maybe 'a ton?'

Just trying to add some scientific context here for the 'Fanboys.'

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/14/2013 16:49:33 MDT Print View

A couple of things:
1. Ti Jetboils have had some problems. What percentage, I don't know, but I did document the problem on my blog some time ago: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- Caution

2. In an article I wrote, I found that the difference between a Ti Jetboil Sol and an Al Jetboil Sol was approximately 1 ounce. See the side-by-side comparison toward the end of the article for a detailed break out. Note: Jetboil looks like they've subsequently redesigned the Aluminum version. The redesigned version looks heavier than the first Al Sol.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 10/14/2013 16:53:21 MDT.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 16:53:23 MDT Print View

Ryan Jordan's just failed.

https://twitter.com/bigskyry/status/389257842458251264/photo/1

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 16:59:30 MDT Print View

Easy way to prevent the orange thingie from melting is to just remove the stupid thing.

http://hikelighter.com/2013/05/22/jetboil-sol-ti/

Reference 'Overall System Weight' section and photos at bottom of article.

Edited by JohnAbela on 10/14/2013 17:08:14 MDT.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 17:26:30 MDT Print View

"Ryan Jordan's just failed."


Ryan Jordan ‏@bigskyry 13 Oct:
"...Maybe insufficient heat dissipation using the combo of the add-on pot support and a fry pan."


Maybe operator error...

Anyone can make anything fail if they try hard enough.

James Klein
(jnklein21) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 17:42:11 MDT Print View

Fwiw, The frying pan is listed as a compatable product on jb's Webpage for the ti Sol.

Edited by jnklein21 on 10/14/2013 17:44:10 MDT.

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 17:46:03 MDT Print View

"Maybe operator error...

Anyone can make anything fail if they try hard enough."


Difficult to see how it could be op error.

He was using a JB stove, with a JB gas cartridge with a JB adaptor under a frying pan that JB list as compatible.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Jetboil... Ryan Jordan.. Bacon... on 10/14/2013 17:47:30 MDT Print View

I blame it on the bacon!!!

bacon

Edited by JohnAbela on 10/14/2013 17:54:19 MDT.

Daniel N
(DanielN) - M
Re: Re: Bad experience with Jetboil" on 10/14/2013 18:15:36 MDT Print View

...

Edited by DanielN on 10/14/2013 18:26:21 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Nobody Screws Dilthey on 10/14/2013 18:43:52 MDT Print View

Is that the problem?

Jetboil. Still needs work.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
more on JB on 10/14/2013 19:07:52 MDT Print View

What I don't get is so many of you have to find ways to pack cumbersome government approved bear canisters in order to backpack, then why on earth would you ever pack something like that jetboil thingy I see at EMS all the time.

So it boils water on less gas, though I've yet to see any proof of that, assume it does because the flame is so enclosed. So you boil water, can you simmer your pasta or rice or goulash with one boil? And what does an enclosed flame mean - from what I've read here it means a much greater likelihood of carbon monoxide, the silent and undetectable killer, being generated.

The whole thing looks like a big marketing scam, the company treats customers like ****, and now it appears it's not even fire safe. Well what did you think would happen when you mixed a hot flame with plastic in one piece of topheavy gear? Good grief.

Edited by scfhome on 10/14/2013 19:15:59 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: more on JB on 10/14/2013 19:12:37 MDT Print View

+1

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: more on JB on 10/14/2013 19:38:20 MDT Print View

I have an idea. Go get the Lockheed Skunk Works to make a Jetboil forged out of one-piece titanium like it did for major portions of the SR-71 Blackbird. Nothing to come apart. No welds to break.

--B.G.--

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Take a classic or two instead on 10/14/2013 19:41:29 MDT Print View

I just love to take a few classic stoves out, heck with something that is fast, it's all about the experience. Nothing like touching off a old MSR G or GK, or even a Optimus 111 or 8/8R. :) What was that? I can't hear you. :)
Duane

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Bad experience with Jetboil on 10/14/2013 20:03:19 MDT Print View

3 people with Jetboil issues, probably due to user error.

One case of Jetboil customer service not playing nice.

A growing BPL witch hunt.

....Priceless.



; )

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: more on JB on 10/14/2013 20:07:13 MDT Print View

Roger's article http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_efficiency_p3.html

said that average upright use 11.6 g to heat 1 liter of water

jetboils used 9 g

that's about 20% less

Ti Sol weighs about the same as a stove+pot+windscreen

If you were on a trip where one canister was enough with jetboil, but you required 2 canisters with conventional upright, that would be significant, well, if a canister weighs 7 ounces and you think that's significant, then it would be significant

If one canister is sufficient with conventional upright, then it wouldn't make much difference

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
marketing scam on 10/15/2013 00:43:36 MDT Print View

best "marketing scam" evah ... he uses it in the Himalayas to scam suckers ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87CZL8wq-YQ



interestingly enuff ... as indicated the majority of the talk of failures is with the Ti version ...

http://www.google.ca/#psj=1&q=jetboil+failure&start=0

there doesnt seem to be that many failures of other non Ti jetboils

of course how jetboil deals with the issues also matters

;)

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: more on JB on 10/15/2013 02:37:17 MDT Print View

"What I don't get is so many of you have to find ways to pack cumbersome government approved bear canisters in order to backpack, then why on earth would you ever pack something like that jetboil thingy I see at EMS all the time.

So it boils water on less gas, though I've yet to see any proof of that, assume it does because the flame is so enclosed. So you boil water, can you simmer your pasta or rice or goulash with one boil? And what does an enclosed flame mean - from what I've read here it means a much greater likelihood of carbon monoxide, the silent and undetectable killer, being generated.

The whole thing looks like a big marketing scam, the company treats customers like ****, and now it appears it's not even fire safe. Well what did you think would happen when you mixed a hot flame with plastic in one piece of topheavy gear? Good grief."

I have several stoves and choose the stove that i feel is the best solution for that trek.
How much fuel it uses or if the flame is hidden is just part of my decision making process.

If you haven't used a JB it is extremely handy when it's working right, i can have it out my pack and be sitting with a cup of boiling water in just over 4 mins.
Several times i am able to be sitting, drinking my cup of tea before my hiking buddy alcohol stove has even started blooming.
No soot, no mess, fast and efficient, when it's working well it really is a great system.

Problem is the Ti version has some fundamental design flaws.


Not really sure the point you're trying to make with regards to CO, maybe you are confused?
ANY fire you have in a poorly ventilated space is a CO poisoning risk, gas burner type stoves are no more or less a risk than say a alcohol or petrol burning stove.

To my mind anyone that cooks inside a tent (i mean inside a closed tent, not under a open bell) no matter what the stove is asking for trouble.


"3 people with Jetboil issues, probably due to user error.

One case of Jetboil customer service not playing nice.

A growing BPL witch hunt.

....Priceless."

A few things

1/ How is your post likely to move the thread along or help anyone?
You have offered no experiences, no advice and no insight, on many of the other forums i visit you'd be considered a troll

2/ You haven't even bothered to check your facts before posting, as there are far more than 3 of the exact same failure by more users

3/ If i have problems with kit and the manf comes good and provides great after sales service i'm the first to sing their praises as often and as loud as i can.
In this case all the manf can be bothered to do is say it was operator error, even though it's a well documented fault on this model, a model that is the top of their range and the most expensive by a fair margin

4/ By your own figures you say it's only 3 people that have had problems if you believe that to be the case that's not much of a which hunt is it ;)

If people stick to the facts and comment only on their experiences with this product then the thread will move on and hopefully JB will man up and admit it's a design problem.
If posters like yourself keep making unsubstantiated claims in a childish attempt to troll up some sort of response then it's not doing anyone any good.

JB should have a read through this thread, try and get together exactly how many of the exact same failure, from complaints they've received and failures they've observed (heat exchanger) on forum posts (JB ARE reading this thread as they pop up on most hiking forums after their name is mentioned), compare that to how many have been sold and go from there.

It will be tough to get a definitive answer as how many folks buy kit and never use it, but still there is no denying the fact that there have been at least several of the exact same failures on this product.
Failures that have not occurred on their cheaper models, that tells me they got it wrong here

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: more on JB on 10/15/2013 02:37:17 MDT Print View

double post

Edited by gixer on 10/15/2013 02:38:00 MDT.

Andrew Stow
(AndyS) - F - MLife

Locale: Midwest USA
Anyone failed on while following the instructions? on 10/15/2013 07:48:50 MDT Print View

I've read the thread, but maybe I missed it. Has anyone failed a Sol Ti boiling water only? Have the instructions changed?

http://shop.jetboil.com/files/sol-ti-sumo-ti-quickstart-v4.pdf

1) BOILING WATER: For fastest performance, use high heat
when boiling liquid water. Follow normal operating instructions.
Adding non-liquids (soup mix, oatmeal, dehydrated meal, etc.) to
water can result in damage to the cup and fins.
2) DO NOT USE TO MELT SNOW OR ICE: Do not use to
melt snow or ice as improper use may cause the cup to overheat
and fins may be damaged.
3) DO NOT COOK SOUPS OR OTHER FOODS: Sol® TI and
SUMO® TI are ideal for fast and fuel efficient water boiling only.
Do not use for cooking food to avoid potential damage to cooking
cup or FluxRing®.

Seems pretty clear to me. Baked beans, however runny, = not water.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Anyone failed on while following the instructions? on 10/15/2013 08:20:03 MDT Print View

^^^

+1

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: more on JB on 10/15/2013 08:51:13 MDT Print View

So Mark did not use the Ti version as intended and claims, "there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users"

As asked before, how many documented failures? I see three on this thread.

Mark S
(gixer) - F
JB defence league on 10/15/2013 10:31:23 MDT Print View

Andy, Greg, Dave

I appreciate the need for clarification, hopefully my answer below helps.
I do have to say though that i find it very strange how people jump into a thread to defend a brand or company when they have shown absolutely no interest before, and the levels they go to defend a brand strikes me as very weird.
I would be grateful if you would declare your loyalties here, do you work for JB, sell JB products?

If not what possible reason could you have to attack my credibility and jump to the defence of a company you have no vested interests in?
Seems very very odd to me and a bit suspicious.

Do you guys even have Sol Ti's?
If not i'm not sure your opinions are relevant as i've clearly stated it's ONLY the Sol Ti product i have experienced problems with, as far as i know every other product in the JB range could be the best in it's class.
I will never find out though due to the extremely poor customer service i have experienced directly.
Have any of the JB defence league actually dealt with JB customer service, had something replaced?
Again if not then your opinions are not really relevant as you have no direct experience with either the product or the "customer service"

Very weird.
As i say i appreciate the opportunity to clarify my points and opinions, i just think some posters are defending a little bit too much.

To clarify on my part:
Those instructions were created on the 30th of March 2012 and edited on April the 9th 2012.
My cup failed on March 27th 2012, so those "new" instructions were of absolutely no use to me.

The previous instructions clearly stated
"DO NOT fry or cook foods with low moisture content. Use low flame...."

As even non watered down beans have a high moisture content i was using the systems as per the instructions.
The fact that JB later changed the instructions again leads me to believe they know full well there is a fundamental design flaw with the product.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
What happened to Ryan Jordan's Jetboil? on 10/15/2013 10:48:42 MDT Print View

Anyone know what happened to Ryan Jordan's Jetboil? See Ryan's Twitter post.


HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Edited by hikin_jim on 10/15/2013 10:49:32 MDT.

Andrew Stow
(AndyS) - F - MLife

Locale: Midwest USA
Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 11:07:02 MDT Print View

Mark,

I wondered how their instructions had changed, since the current ones are clearly marked "v4." No, I don't work for Jetboil, not do I own one, nor a competing product. I cook with white gas simply because I don't like disposable canisters. Looking at changing to alcohol.

I was not trying to attack you, but honestly wondering whether the product is sound as currently advertised: for boiling only. Someone made an implication earlier in the thread that a breeze could make one side too hot and fail the fins, but I find that unlikely considering that you can boil water in a leaf, or a paper cup, over a campfire.

I'd say that if you used it within the confines of the instructions included when you bought it, they should make it right, unless they actually managed to later communicate to you, "hey, oops, water only," at which point you should have been offered a choice of a refund, replacement with non-Ti version, or keep it and use it for water only.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 11:14:06 MDT Print View

"I would be grateful if you would declare your loyalties here, do you work for JB, sell JB products?"

No.

"If not what possible reason could you have to attack my credibility and jump to the defence of a company you have no vested interests in?"

You are not being attacked. Like any investigation that requires a suitable level of due diligence, I see 3 issues on this thread where the item in question may have been used in a manner that is outside of JB's recommendation. If this is the case, then is this a design flaw or a user flaw? Was it a manufacturing defect specific to these three or a 'batch' that has now been rectified? Remember the NeoAir issues? The pad was redesigned.

"Do you guys even have Sol Ti's?"

Yes and have been using to boil water for the past 3 years. Not cook beans.

"Have any of the JB defence league actually dealt with JB customer service, had something replaced?"

No. Recommendation: if you continue to use terms like JetBoil Fanboys and JB Defence League, your credibility is suspect. What would you have those who use the Ti pot successfully to do? I would hope you would expect them to provide their own experience. Otherwise how can you determine that it is a design flaw?

We need to understand how many of these pots are failing. Is it 1 out of 5, 10, 100,000?

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: What happened to Ryan Jordan's Jetboil? on 10/15/2013 11:17:37 MDT Print View

Looks like he was frying bacon with a non-compatable pan....?

"was it a JB frying pan?"

Ryan Jordan: "nope, an MSR 9" pan on top of the @Jetboil adapter."


Jim, is this a design flaw to you?

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 11:20:09 MDT Print View

"Mark,

I wondered how their instructions had changed, since the current ones are clearly marked "v4." No, I don't work for Jetboil, not do I own one, nor a competing product. I cook with white gas simply because I don't like disposable canisters. Looking at changing to alcohol.

I was not trying to attack you, but honestly wondering whether the product is sound as currently advertised: for boiling only. Someone made an implication earlier in the thread that a breeze could make one side too hot and fail the fins, but I find that unlikely considering that you can boil water in a leaf, or a paper cup, over a campfire.

I'd say that if you used it within the confines of the instructions included when you bought it, they should make it right, unless they actually managed to later communicate to you, "hey, oops, water only," at which point you should have been offered a choice of a refund, replacement with non-Ti version, or keep it and use it for water only."

Hi Andy,

Sorry, i reread my post and it came out angrier than i'd hoped when i was aiming for tongue in cheek.

In my defence it does tend to get a little tiring when the manf and op's keep telling you that it's not the products fault, yet you follow the instructions to a T, buy and use a product in good conscience.

I really do enjoy the convenience of gas cartridge stoves, not only do they allow me to boil quicker and cleaner, whenever i have asked park rangers they've told me meths burners are strictly forbidden but they wouldn't mind if i used a gas stove.
As most of the areas i walk are tinder dry here for most of the year that's a big plus for me.

Between the mega cheap Chinese gas burner and my Alcohol stoves and Ti cups i think i'm pretty sorted now though.
If it's damp out i do kinda like the simplicity of my meths burners.

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 11:33:27 MDT Print View

""I would be grateful if you would declare your loyalties here, do you work for JB, sell JB products?"

No.

"If not what possible reason could you have to attack my credibility and jump to the defence of a company you have no vested interests in?"

You are not being attacked. Like any investigation that requires a suitable level of due diligence, I see 3 issues on this thread where the item in question may have been used in a manner that is outside of JB's recommendation. If this is the case, then is this a design flaw or a user flaw? Was it a manufacturing defect specific to these three or a 'batch' that has now been rectified? Remember the NeoAir issues? The pad was redesigned.

"Do you guys even have Sol Ti's?"

Yes and have been using to boil water for the past 3 years. Not cook beans.

"Have any of the JB defence league actually dealt with JB customer service, had something replaced?"

No. Recommendation: if you continue to use terms like JetBoil Fanboys and JB Defence League, your credibility is suspect. What would you have those who use the Ti pot successfully to do? I would hope you would expect them to provide their own experience. Otherwise how can you determine that it is a design flaw?

We need to understand how many of these pots are failing. Is it 1 out of 5, 10, 100,000?"

My problem is though Dave i don't know you, i don't know your experience or knowledge, so i don't really know why you should be investigating this.
I guess what i'm asking is, what gives you the authority to investigate this?

Even if your well versed in investigating this kind of thing, if your not connected to JB then there is nothing you can do to offer a solution.

Sorry if that comes across a little blunt, but that is what i am thinking.

Likewise, what use is it to anyone but JB to have numbers of these Sol Ti failures?
It's JB's job to amass this info NOT the end users.
Plus again even if it's proven many have failed, what good does that do the end user who ended up with a melted pot?


Without any any sarcasm here i really am truly happy that some of you good folks are getting good use out of your Sol Ti's.
They are a fairly expensive investment, so to read some of you have been using them for years really does make me happy.

I can't offer any real evidence as to why some are ok and others not.
Maybe the later type are better, maybe mine got knocked about being shipped half way around the world.
Certainly JB knew that their first generation of instructions would lead to failures so they changed them and categorically stated ONLY WATER.
There is a chance that if i only boiled water my Sol Ti might still be ok.
Problem i have there though is, if i knew beforehand i could only boil water with it, i would NOT have purchased it in the first place.


As i said in my response to Andy above, i apologise for my previous post as it came out reading as angry and sarcastic, my intention was to inject a little tongue in cheek to the thread, i failed.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 11:52:19 MDT Print View

You are correct in that it is not my job to determine how many failures there have been. But Mark, you come out of the 'woodwork' and claim that "there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users" and then claim a design failure.

You make generalizations that can't be necessarily supported and therefore, can expect questions. How you take the questions is up to you.

Sorry about the baked beans, but why did you buy another Ti pot then?

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
for anyone new .... on 10/15/2013 11:54:08 MDT Print View

if you want a jetboil simply ...

- get the aluminum one ... its 1-2 oz heavier, but you can cook beans or other fun stuff if you want ... the majority of the failures are with the TI version ... im not saying an aluminum jetboil will never fail, any stove can, but its not a major known issue and mountaineers have been using them for years since the original version

- buy from somewhere with an unlimited no questions asked warranty ... like MEC if yr in canada

i personally think that in the pursuit of 1-2 oz jetboil has created a very niche product with limited applications and a headache for those everyday people who use it beyond boiling water ....

its really that simple

;)

michael doyle
(mdoyle)
My good jetboil experience on 10/15/2013 12:18:08 MDT Print View

I have had great luck with jetboil products and service.

For service I had an issue of the lid being a bit loose, called jetboil and they sent a replacement, simple and clean.

Mine has been used by myself and my Scouts. It went to Philmont twice as the only stove on one trek, with only the Scouts using it, boiled water day after day with no problem, using suprisingly little fuel. It was used as a stove with the large Phlmont pot, and also with the jetboil cup.

Of all the friends I have that have been using jetboils for the last several years I have heard of no complaints.

It works much better and cleaner for my use that the old white gas stove I had, better by far than an alchohol stove, better than the new wood burning stove I bought to play with (it is fun to use but messy).

My thoughts

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 12:21:07 MDT Print View

"You are correct in that it is not my job to determine how many failures there have been. But Mark, you come out of the 'woodwork' and claim that "there have been many many of the exact same failures from many users" and then claim a design failure.

You make generalizations that can't be necessarily supported and therefore, can expect questions. How you take the questions is up to you.

Sorry about the baked beans, but why did you buy another Ti pot then?"

To me it makes absolutely no difference if it was just mine that failed or 99% of them.
Being a engineer i have daily experience in things failing, it happens.

The things that got to me are:
1/ As i've now been made aware JB have changed their instructions.
If i'd known i could only boil water beforehand i would not have purchased the Sol Ti

2/ The fact that JB knew there have been failures, yet refused to do anything about it

3/ The fact that JB were willing to accept the stove for examination until they found out i was in Europe, after which they washed their hands of it.


I purchased the 2nd cup as i figured it was just a one off, after reading other reports (some of which some seem to have failed when they were just boiling water) i lost confidence in the product.
Thought about selling it on, but i'm not confident the next owner won't have the same problem, so i can't in good conscience sell it on.

So it sits in the boot of the car the cup unused as a backup car stove.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 12:26:51 MDT Print View

Mark, does the pot look different from the previous one? Are the fins differently shaped?

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 12:32:54 MDT Print View

Dave,

My 2nd cup looks exactly the same as the first.

Using the link John posted
http://www.nielsenbrownoutdoors.com/2012/07/tale-of-2-jetboil-sol-tis.html

Both my cups are the earlier type

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JB defence league on 10/15/2013 13:23:44 MDT Print View

Thanks for that link - I'll be looking at my cup later tonight.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: What happened to Ryan Jordan's Jetboil? on 10/15/2013 16:37:57 MDT Print View

Looks like he was frying bacon with a non-compatable pan....?

"was it a JB frying pan?"

Ryan Jordan: "nope, an MSR 9" pan on top of the @Jetboil adapter."


Jim, is this a design flaw to you?
Design flaw? Maybe not, but it's certainly a design limitation. One should be able to cook with a fry pan on a JB burner with the provided adapter. The Jetboil fry pan is 8" in diameter. Apparently Ryan's pan was 9". I wouldn't think that would make a dramatic difference. I do wonder if any grease spilled, and I wonder how long he was cooking for. If he were doing multiple courses of bacon, perhaps the heat built up too much. But spilled grease that caught fire and caused the orange ring to burn would be my first guess.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Jetboil Ti -- General Comment on 10/15/2013 16:48:27 MDT Print View

Just some general comments about Jetboil's instructions (quoted below) for the Ti versions:
A stove that can't be used to melt snow? Really? And water only? Not even soup? That seems very limiting to me. Just my opinion.

When I did my review of the Jetboil Sol (aluminium version), I compared the weights and came up with about a 1 ounce difference between the Al Sol and the Ti Sol. I just don't see a great advantage to the Ti version when you give up so much cooking utility and save only about an ounce -- and at a substantial increase in cost. Note: Jetboil has made some changes to both the Al and Ti versions of the Sol since I did my review. My weights are probably a little off now, although they're probably still in the ballpark

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

http://shop.jetboil.com/files/sol-ti-sumo-ti-quickstart-v4.pdf

1) BOILING WATER: For fastest performance, use high heat
when boiling liquid water. Follow normal operating instructions.
Adding non-liquids (soup mix, oatmeal, dehydrated meal, etc.) to
water can result in damage to the cup and fins.
2) DO NOT USE TO MELT SNOW OR ICE: Do not use to
melt snow or ice as improper use may cause the cup to overheat
and fins may be damaged.
3) DO NOT COOK SOUPS OR OTHER FOODS: Sol® TI and
SUMO® TI are ideal for fast and fuel efficient water boiling only.
Do not use for cooking food to avoid potential damage to cooking
cup or FluxRing®.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JB defence league on 10/16/2013 07:38:07 MDT Print View

Okay, looked at my cup and I have the first version. Again, no issues. Knock on titanium.


(jrentas8137) - F
My JB Experience on 11/08/2013 21:15:53 MST Print View

I burnt my sol ti up, admitedly, I wasn't watching it. I left it on with water, went to grab something in my pack...took WAY too long, fried my system because the water went dry. The heat had nowhere to go I imagine. This was the email I got (pretty straight forward, I think it is one of those everybody based emails tho) I didn't get a new cup but I bought a new one for $50 and she let me buy a frypan for discount too:

Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry about the Jetboil warranty process.

As the cup has become damaged it is important to discontinue use of the cup as it is no longer safe for use.

What we could do is issue you a return authorization number for you to send your system in for warranty evaluation.

If it is found to be covered under warranty then we will replace your cup and send it back to you free of charge. If it is found that the damage arose out of misuse (damage resulting from snow melting, cooking of any foods, placing the cup on the burner empty, running the cup dry etc.) then we will contact you to discuss replacement options and payment.

Understand that because the cup is no longer safe for use, once it is sent in to us then we will not be able to send this cup back to you as it poses a liability.

Please review our warranty.

http://www.jetboil.com/warranty .

Jetboil has a 1-year limited warranty. Should this product not function properly under normal use within 1 year of purchase, contact Jetboil or your local distributor for return process information. Jetboil alone will determine if the problem is due to a manufacturing flaw. If so, Jetboil will repair or replace the unit at its discretion and return it to you, free of charge.
This warranty does not cover any damage or malfunction arising from misuse, improper maintenance, negligence, normal wear and tear or accident. This warranty applies only to the original purchaser and proof of purchase is required.

EXCEPT AS PROVIDED HEREIN, THERE ARE NO OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

JETBOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER.

Modification of the product and/or using the product not in accordance with the instructions and recommended use will void the warranty and may be hazardous.
This warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may also have other rights that vary from state to state. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, or limitation or exclusion of implied warranties, so the above exclusions or limitations may not apply to you.

For information about the Titanium models and water boiling only. http://shop.jetboil.com/index.php/sol-cooking-ti.html
http://shop.jetboil.com/files/sol-ti-sumo-ti-quickstart-v4.pdf

If you would like to continue with the warranty process, please provide us with your US mailing address, phone number, and full name to start the paperwork.

Christie Roberts
US Dealer Sales
Jetboil Inc
540 N Commercial St
Manchester NH 03101
603.518.1600

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: My JB Experience on 11/09/2013 02:28:01 MST Print View

> Understand that because the cup is no longer safe for use, once it is sent in to
> us then we will not be able to send this cup back to you as it poses a liability.
I still say that is straight out theft. Well, it would be in Australia.

I guess they are trying to either cover their backsides or hide the evidence. I can understand that, but it is still theft in my book. Bad move on their part: provokes great customer outrage. Bad move.

Moving on from the immediate reaction, I am led to wonder just what is the claimed liability - to the owner. I have some Ti pots which we use all the time. How is the JB pot any different? I can't see it. But I would welcome comment from JB explaining this.

Cheers

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: My JB Experience on 11/09/2013 02:34:44 MST Print View

"I guess they are trying to either cover their backsides or hide the evidence. I can understand that, but it is still theft in my book. Bad move on their part: provokes great customer outrage. Bad move."

Agreed. They are somewhat covered in that the text of their warranty is very clear. It is pretty slimy, but that is what keeps the bills paid for the lawyers. Their argument would be that if the purchaser did not like the warranty, then they didn't have to purchase the product. Of course the purchaser never reads any fine print like this prior to the purchase. Yes, I would say that it provokes customer outrage.

--B.G.--

Mark S
(gixer) - F
Why is the cup no longer safe to use? on 11/09/2013 02:43:27 MST Print View

Anyone have any thoughts on why the cup is no longer safe to use?

Surely after the heat exchanger has melted it's just a normal Ti cup.


Still have my failed cup, keep meaning to try and remove the JB attachment and use it as a normal Ti cup.